Mini 928 - Bloodlust Mafia Remix - Over!

[havingfitz]

Hello all. Almost midnight here so I'll start my read tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

OK...completed my read.

I suspect everyone. My main suspects atm are fifi and Dr Cyanide. I also have concerns with the lurkers and/or people who seem to be posting for the sake of posting:

Haylen – 20 posts but nothing said
MrSuave – 14 posts of limited value
AB – 8 posts with a few worth reading
Bv – 7 posts of very limited worth
Sandman – 5 posts of absolutely no value

While I did not see any problem with fifi asking what was wrong with being friendly (as it appeared MrSuave and Civil Scum thought it merited attention (thought they did not call it a negative)...the way fifi has played since that initial attention getter has been suspect IMO. Her vote has moved a few times for reasons I find questionalbe. Also, I am not a big fan of self-votes (though it has only happened in one of my previous games iirc) or softclaims.

Regarding the self-vote...I’m not sure why fifi got so much attention for it while Haylen had self-voted previously and continued to have the self-vote until after the fifi self-vote topic had exhausted itself. But no one seems to have found fault with Haylen. (congrats on your engagement btw).

Dr Cyanide for his outburst about someone over-reacting and in general his play since then? (gut...sorry)

I’m still digesting what I have read but I wanted to get something into the game so people knew I was in it. If anyone has any questions fire away.

While I ponder a better place for my vote....

Unvote

[havingfitz]

I can be more active, as of right now.

And then we get two brief posts over the next 4 days. When does right now start?

FoS Mr. Sandman

I remain suspicous of Dr Cyanide but I'm not ready to call him scum. His overreaction post and subsequent battle with Civil Scum and Concerned color him a bit scummy but I could also see it as defensive/aggressive town. I need to see a bit more of him before I consider a vote on him. I find fifi's posts a bit odd as well but that could be due to English as a 2nd language? No offense fifi...if I am off the mark regarding your grasp of English let me know. I would not be surprised if one of Dr Cyanide or fifi were scum but not prepared to commit to one of them yet.

Vote MrSuave

You been around mafia awhile (basing this off of 555 posts) and yet you have done nothing in this game so far. You've made 14 posts and contributed very little (if anything). If you have any thoughts on the game that exceed the short one-liners you've provided so far, I would be interested in hearing them. The same goes for all the other lurkers as well.

[havingfitz]

bv is active lurking i've seen him posting in another game.

I do have legitimate reasons for my 'lurking' as apparently im meant to call it.

Fifi is basically gut.

My self vote in RVS is null, i do it regardless of alignment everytime. It adds a bit of light heartness to the game.

bv posting in other games would be a bit of a concern. Which game/s is s/he posting in if you don't mind?

Could you explain the line in your quote above that I bolded? What are your legitimate reasons for what you are meant to call "lurking?" Because that's what scum do?

I found several games you had played in Haylen. I found three where you voted yourself...you were a mafia double-voter, a vigilante, and a serial killer. I did not see any where you were a VT. Do you only like to add a lightheartedness inducing self vote when you have something to hide? There's no gaurantee we have a Vig in this game but we do have the other two. Which one are you?

FoS Haylen

At this rate I'll have a FoS on everyone in the game in no time.

BTW...not being able to search posts is a pain in the arse. Does anyone know if that function will be returing at mafiascum in the future?

[havingfitz]

What are your legitimate reasons for what you are meant to call "lurking?"

If i told you, mith would have to kill you (he'd have my head first though). I'm not sure how publicised it is.

His last post here was:

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject: 6

In his other game he has posted 5 times between then and now. It's Farside's current theme game being run in Theme Park. (Im not sure how much info on other games so i decided not to quote time stamps.

He was online a couple of minutes ago too, it tells you who's online at the bottom of the index page.

Ooooooh K on the "lurking".

That is bothersome about bv310. He is actually

due a prod

as I expect a few others are (at least close to).

WTH...

FoS bv310

.

Too bad there are so many lurkers...ya can't vote 'em all.

[havingfitz]

I still don't like Cyanide's defensiveness.

Scum reads atm:
Cyanide
Fifi
BV130

Does bv310's active lurking move him up any on your scum list? I assume I'm at the top of your list since you have your vote on me.

While I don't care too much for lurkers (especially townie ones because they do nothing to help town and only cast suspicions upon themselves

for

lurking) I really don’t like active lurkers. And while I may give lurkers who are nowhere to be found elsewhere on the site or who have provided worthwhile inputs when they have posted some benefit of the doubt, I view active lurker’s absences as intentional and I can not think of any reasons for town to intentionally avoid a game.

I remain suspicious of MrSuave based on giving him the benefit of the doubt of being a capable, active, experienced player. Ie...he knows what he is doing. Of course having never played with him before I would very well be completely wrong. If I have time later perhaps I will do some meta’ing on him. But I digress....

Unvote: MrSuave

FoS: MrSuave

Vote: bv310

@all...what are your thoughts regarding lurkers...whether they be active or nowhere to be found?

[havingfitz]

fuck fuck fuck

I like what you're saying. It's just a little vague. Can you elaborate?

Also...regarding the 'false meta,' I managed to find 6 of your games on Google, three of which you were VT (with no self claims) and the other three where you were a killer of some sort. The links you provided just mait appears you are a lot more likely to self claim when you have something to hide....which is why I find you suspicious.

[havingfitz]

fuck fuck fuck

I like what you're saying. It's just a little vague. Can you elaborate?

Also...regarding the 'false meta,' I managed to find 6 of your games on Google, three of which you were VT (with no self claims) and the other three where you were a killer of some sort.

The links you provided just mait appears you are a lot more likely to self claim when you have something to hide....which is why I find you suspicious

.

D'oh...EBWOP: Meant to say:

The links you provided just magnify the point I was making as it appears you are a lot more likely to self claim when you have something to hide....which is why I find you suspicious.

[havingfitz]

McZombie with her 3 posts.
What's up with that?

She should be replaced.

Mod...can we get a Vote Count

...especially now that someone (fifi) has brought an old one to the forefront by quoting it in its entirety.

[havingfitz]

While I don't care too much for lurkers (especially townie ones because they do nothing to help town and only cast suspicions upon themselves

for

lurking) I really don’t like active lurkers. And while I may give lurkers who are nowhere to be found elsewhere on the site or who have provided worthwhile inputs when they have posted some benefit of the doubt, I view active lurker’s absences as intentional and I can not think of any reasons for town to intentionally avoid a game.

I remain suspicious of MrSuave based on giving him the benefit of the doubt of being a capable, active, experienced player. Ie...he knows what he is doing. Of course having never played with him before I would very well be completely wrong. If I have time later perhaps I will do some meta’ing on him. But I digress....

Unvote: MrSuave

FoS: MrSuave

Vote: bv310

@all...what are your thoughts regarding lurkers...whether they be active or nowhere to be found?

you should look at my games, I'll post the links later, but I have a business project due in 2 days so I'm a little busy. once that's done I'll be free to post.

What would I be looking at your games for? Proof of posting? Proof of providing worthwhile content to a game? I like how you post 5+ hours past the 72 hrs prod deadline. Way to stay involved to the utmost minimum. Not sure which lurker I suspect more....the one active in other games and just completely ignoring this one (ie bv310) or posting 'just enough' to still be posting (ie MrSuave). There is no good for town that comes from lurking. Please admit you are scum or replace out. Also...I like the 2 day promise....which of course comes after the deadline and most likely buys you three more days to be absent. In case you find a few precious seconds before the end of D1....do you have any real suspects or is your vote from RVS still your preffered option?

Too many lurkers this close to the deadline. #$%^&

[havingfitz]

McZombie should be replaced.

Again it falls to me to reiterate that you were the person who replaced her.

EBWOP:
[sarcasm]McZombie should be replaced.[/sarcasm]

vote: fifi

Cyanide has been pretty inconsistent in his play, and in how much he suspects me. But I have a stronger feeling on Fifi. And on Fitz, Haylen, and Mr. Sandman if Fifi flips town.

And yes I agree with Julien that Mr. Sauve is not cleared in any way by a Fifi scum-flip.

Nevermind the deadline, let's lynch Fifi. He obviously the scummiest looking player here.

How the he// does a fifi town flip implicate me? Her early play was odd but she has moved down a bit on my list as shown here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 98#2140598

If I were you...I would be more concerned with fifi flipping town than the <pardon the 3rd person> havingfitz. Your unwavering stance on your vote preferences as shown by the last line of your quote above and this:

Look, I'll lynch either Fifi or Cyanide. But only on the condition that the one we don't lynch is lynched tomorrow, no questions asked.

...is very anti town IMO in that it seems like you are trying to direct others into your tunnel on fifi. Expressing your suspects is one thing...your approach just does not seem very townie to me.

********************************************************

OK...

can the mod confirm today is the deadline.

The votecount from yesterday said the deadline was in two days (which I take to mean Saturday) but earlier vote counts say March 5th. I am in GMT so 4:30 pm EST is 9:30 pm here. I should be able to check in around 9pm my time to see if there is a suitable wagon in need of progressing.

Almightybob has it right . Sorry for the confusion.

Unless someone else claims cult leader I stand my by earlier suspicions of fifi...which is she is not the strongest suspect. I would be up for voting the person I currently have my vote on...bv310, MrSuave for his very efficient use of lurking and minimal posting/content, and for Haylen for reasons similar to, but not as strong as, my MrSuave suspicions. Not sure I would support a fifi lynch over a No Lynch unless someone else counterclaims cult leader.

[havingfitz]

Regarding the deadline - The mod said in yesterday's vote count (3rd March) that the deadline was in 2 days (5th March) at 4:30pm EST.
So for you and me fitz, that's Friday 5th March, 9:30pm GMT.

Ahh...ok. I was going off the post timestamp for me: Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:50 am

[havingfitz]

Well, according to the wiki, a common mechanic is for the recruited cultist to lose their previous powers, if they had any. So, the way I see it, Fifi is basically going to wander around neutering our docs and cops and such. Walking around with a hand full of useless power-roles he took from people. It's dangerous, and we should kill him anyways...

First off...if fifi male or female?

Pardon the questions but I have not played in a game with any of our town PRs before (iirc). You say fifi would be walking around with useless power roles 'he' took from people...would the cult leader have the ability to use those powers? Also, on the flip side...what if the cult leader targets an anti-town role (ie scum or sk)? Would the anti-town role no longer be anti-town?

Cult leaders cannot take powers from anyone; the recruited retain their abilities. If a cult leader attempts to recruit an anti-town role, then the cult leader dies.

The game set up does not contain a cop or doc so there is no problem with losing one of them. If the cult leader does recruit someone and then gets killed or lynched...does their recruit die as well?

No. Recruits remain alive when the cult leader dies.

Focking monkey wrenches.

If we believe fifi cult leader claim (I don't think she would risk taking a chance with the 1:4 odds that there isn't one in the game to CC her)...would his/her role still be a detriment to town?

IDFK

[havingfitz]

Unvote

Not really worth lynching a claimed PR... Unless of course we get a counter claim.
I'm willing to jump on any of the following wagons in this order of preference:
Cyanide, Suave, Haylen, BV310 (I know he's getting replaced but we still have no information on the slot).

Just noticed the comment about BV replacing out. Not sure that affects my vote on him or not. Still find his limited actions, to include posting while inactive here, scummy. I need to do an ISO on Cyanide to see if I'd support his lynch. I obviously would prefer it to a no lynch. He was one of my main suspects initially but has been overtaken in my crosshairs a bit by all the lurker variations our game possesses.

[havingfitz]

Less than 3 1/2 hrs left.

No, about 27 1/2 hours left.

@Concerned...if you really don't want a no-lynch...why have you not placed your vote? Are you waiting to potentially finish off a wagon vs helping get one moving?

If I were to vote Cyanide it would be based on my earlier suspicions. With so many lurkers (~5) it might be hard to get seven votes on anyone other than fifi. I am still unsure whether the cult leader is good or bad for town....other than the fact they are in fact town). Only trouble is...fifi has 2 of the lurkers votes so she would be an achievable lynch.

Not a lot of time to move wagons. If anyone else has anything to interject it would be nice to hear it. I'm still like my bv vote because I still think his actions are scummy but I would consider a move to Cyanide if need be. I think a non-fifi lynch is going to be tough to get though. <insert expletive>!

[havingfitz]

Less than 3 1/2 hrs left.

No, about 27 1/2 hours left.

D'oh! Well that changes things. Pardon the schedule dyslexia.

I still think it is going to be difficult to get a non-fifi lynch with all the lurkers (now minus one hopefully).

Thanks for the answers BTW mod...so a cult leader doesn't appear to be a detriment to town.

I'll keep my vote on bv (welcome Darkstrike) until I do that ISO on Cyanide and see if that wagon is acceptable.

[havingfitz]

Jesus bv310 was awful….

Right, first of all fifi is so town that it actually hurts.

Unvote

I dislike Civilscum mainly for his constant haranguing of fifi, but nothing apart from that.

This game is a real lurker’s paradise. My thought is that the scum have been happy to lie back while the few active players argue. By “active players” I mean fifi, civil scum and concerned (to some degree)

Another thing is that Haylen is playing an awful game, just plain awful. I would happily see him lynched. Other players that I fancy for a lynchin’ are sandman or cyanide, simply because they were happy to lie back and not get too involved in the goings on, just once or twice to influence voting patterns. This I do not like.

The biggest issue right now for me is: do we try to bandwagon a lynch, or accept a no lynch and see what happens in the morning? Personally I like the latter. I like to think I’m better at analysing people once we have some night decisions made. Also with all the lurkage, the chances of a mislynch are high. Therefore Im going to

vote: No lynch

Your wagon has a bit of support and I do not think this entry into the discussion helps it much. I can understand asking for a no-lynch later in the game when they have room to lose one more town to a NK...to either give town more time to get a scum read on someone or to narrow down the pool of choices for scum to hide within.

So this is your initial input to the game...you have thrown out all the usual suspects (fair enough...no need to re-invent the wheel) without any additional elaboration.

In summary...bv310 was awful (agreed), you don’t like Civil Scum (does that mean you suspect him?), and you would like to see Haylen, Sandman, or Cyanide lynched (for what appears to be simply due to a lynch all lurkers sentiment since you didn’t provide any other reasons). Any thoughts on MrSuave and Confidanon? Do they fall into the same category as the other three lurkers you mention?

I really don’t like the no-lynch suggestion...especially for the reasons you provide. Basically you are saying, let’s give scum (and SK and possibly Vig) a chance to do their NKs (barring RBing and possibly Jailkeeping) and analyze those actions (isn’t that WIFOM?)? I think we get a lot more out of a D1 lynch than a D1 no lynch. We get a chance to hit paydirt (scum/SK) and we get to see who is on the wagon if we end up in a mislynch. All a no lynch vote on D1 is going to get us is a few deadplayers (scum or town) and a bunch of WIFOM to cloud the picture.

My vote stays on the player formerly known as bv310...and for the sake of clarity:

Unvote: bv310, Vote: Darkstrike_11

BTW DS...have you ever played with any of the players in this game before?

[havingfitz]

Fifi: If you target scum/SK, do you die or do you lose your recruiting power?

If the consequence is that you die, please target Mr Suave tonight.

Then if you die, we'll all know he's scum. If you don't, we'll have a shady character as confirmed Town.

And since I've found him scummy most of the game and it's getting scarily close to deadline,

Unvote, vote: Dr Cyanide

.

AB...there are so many possible outcomes of night actions with the possible roles in this game that even if fifi does target a person to recruit...whether fifi or the person she says she would recruit (assuming she does say) lives or dies could be explained in multiple ways. I don't think any outcome of the night would clarify anything (other than the flip of the NKs).

Cyanide looks to be picking up steam. Off to do that ISO on him.

Also...EBWOP from my last post...

"(barring RBing and possibly Jailkeeping)"

should say

"(barring possible RBing and Jailkeeping)"

since the is only a 1/3 chance of having a RB.

[havingfitz]

It definitely looks like the bandwagon front runners are Cyanide and Darkstrike_11.

Suggest players (ex fifi, Dr Cyanide, Darkstrike) with votes on wagons that obviously are not garnering support consider moving to one that might result in a lynch (aka not a no lynch).

Assuming Cyanide and Darkstrike are not going to self vote and actual do place a vote in support of a lynch...that would put the

projected unofficial votecount

at:

The1fifi (1) - julienvonwolfe
julienwolfe (1) - ConfidAnon

Dr.Cyanide (3) - Civil Scum, Concerned, Darkstrike_11

havingfitz (1) - MrSuave
Civil Scum (1) - The1fifi
MrSuave (1) - Mr.Sandman

Darkstrike_11 (4) - havingfitz, Haylen, almightybob, Dr.Cyanide

Looks like a DS and a DrC lynch are both within reach (regardless of the massive lurking) with fifi’s assistance and a jumping of the ship by [Civil Scum, Concerned] OR [havingfitz, Haylen, almightybob]...though Haylen’s lurking could make a move to DrC less than a sure thing.

[havingfitz]

@Darkstrike...

Not sure the response to Civil Scum was appropriate since his comments were directed at a No Lynch vote and not you.

I don't think today's lynch (assuming we get one) would consitute as rushed. The game has been going on for over 3 weeks and there are 12 pages worth of material to consider. I'm sure all of the town who are involved/active have more than one suspect they would like to see lynched (and scum just happy to lynch anyone other than themselves). The last second effort is to get a unified front (aka lynch) on a BW that is made of people happy to vote for their #1, 2 or 3 ranked suspect (or just anyone other than themself). If I have a list of two or three suspects...which I do...I'd be happy with any of their lynch. And hopefully if the 12 pages of material has shed a proper light on my suspect/s...the lynch won't be a mislynch.

Also...I don't like people pushing for/dictating/or rallying others to vote a certain way but as you said...we are up against a deadline and there is no point in focusing on anyone other thant the two frontrunning BW's given the fact that we have limited people staying active in the game (ie the chance of a lynch on other than you or DrC is highly unlikely). The other option/end result of not coming to an agreement today is going to be a no lynch and lots of WIFOM tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

~7 hrs to go. Still a bit of movement required if a lynch is going to happen.

C'mon people.....

[havingfitz]

Unofficial votecount:

The1fifi (1) - julienvonwolfe
julienwolfe (1) - ConfidAnon
Dr.Cyanide (1) - Concerned
Concerned (1) - Dr.Cyanide
havingfitz (1) - MrSuave
Civil Scum (1) - The1fifi
MrSuave (1) - Mr.Sandman
Darkstrike_11 (

4

) - havingfitz, Haylen, almightybob, Civil Scum
No Lynch (1) - Darkstrike_11

<7 hrs left, seven required to lynch

[havingfitz]

I'd liek to say that I totally believe in everything I'm saying. I really think a no lynch is the best idea. I'll still say the same after you guys lynch me. I won't change that view simply because everyone says its a bad idea.

I believe you. Is there anything else you want us to believe?

[havingfitz]

L-1....is there a lifesaving claim?

Still not sure where the hammer will come from. Only ones left are lurkers. Unless DrC or, even more unlikely, MrSuave chime in and place a vote.

[havingfitz]

If there is a Vig, you should NOT kill tonight. There is not indication as to who is scum and you might hit the Power Roles or Semita.

Semita?

[havingfitz]

What does it mean? I am not familiar with that term/name.

[havingfitz]

DS...you definitely aren't in an easy situation. You replace in just before the lynch deadline for a player who was getting a lot of negative attention.

Have you ever been mafia and if so...could you proved links to them?

[havingfitz]

oh. Semita doesnt translate literally back to English

Yeah...I noticed. Something about a narrow path. I was veering an odd direction towards female metaphors. Thanks.

fifi...I didn't no it was so non-relevent when I asked. Is it releveant Haylen? What do you think it means?

Tick tock.

You know DS...I think if you had come in andd made some lucid statements if suspicion towards some of the other suspects you may have avoided the attention you are getting now. Have you ever seen a serious no lynch recommendation go over well so early in a game?

[havingfitz]

8.

bv310

Darkstrike_11

10. McZombie

What's a guy got to do to get in the credits?


Unofficial votecount:

The1fifi (1) - julienvonwolfe
julienwolfe (1) - ConfidAnon
Concerned (1) - Dr.Cyanide
havingfitz (1) - MrSuave
MrSuave (1) - Mr.Sandman
Darkstrike_11 (

6

) - havingfitz, Haylen, almightybob, Civil Scum, The1fifiConcerned
No Lynch (1) - Darkstrike_11

~75 minutes left, we're at L-1. No lynch or Lynch...lurkers decide.

[havingfitz]

~35 minutes...No lynch or Lynch...lurkers decide.

[havingfitz]

You may be stuck with us DS.

Five lurker makes a game grrrrreat!

[havingfitz]

No lynch. Tomorrow's WIFOM (for whoever gets to enjoy it) should be fun.

[havingfitz]

Man...go v/LA for four RL days and conpletely miss a gameday + lynch. Thanks for waiting.

Have read what I missed but need to look it over again. I probably would have voted Darkstrike as well since iirc he didn't really do anything to remove suspicions towards him (other than his claim of course). Though I'm not sure I would have supported such a quick lynch. I would have liked to have seen more effort from DS11 to save himself.

Since there was enough interest D2 to see how our claimed cult leader's recruiting went...today shouldn't be any different. So fifi...assuming you tried to recruit and were successful (since you are still alive and obviously did not recruit scum)...can you enlighten us and confirm someone else as town? I must say...the fact you are still with us instead of Civil Scum...who seemed to be getting his share of scum suspicions cast his way does not help your claim very much.

[havingfitz]

Vote julien

. Thats exactly scum strategy. Roleblock me, and turn town against me, making them doubt my claim and go for a mislynch.

And

fos

at suave for you bussing him.

What did JW say that has you voting him for scum strategy? His post seems more accusatory towards MrSuave (for reasons I completely agree with) whereas his comments towards you are simply uncertainty about your role. No vote or FoS on you. Yet your response on him (JVW) seems a bit disproportionate to his comments. With potentially a RB, JK, and/or fakeclaim in play...I don't think there is anyway for town to be sure how to proceed with you. For now my top pick is MrSuave for his incredibly efficient 'significantly less than active' lurking.

So until his role is somehow verified...

FoS The1fifi

and

Vote MrSuave

[havingfitz]

Wow this game is slow... time to kick it up a notch

@Fitz - How do you verify fifi?

The only way would be for her to be nightkilled and her role revealed, someone chime in with a counter claim and force our hand, or we lose the potential JK and/or RB which allows him/her to recruit or forces scums hand to NK him/her.

Your point about the Vig and there only being single kills has merit but there are still too many unknowns with a possible RB and JK in play and there could be other reasons for the single kills such as multiple 'killers' targetting the same people. I just don't think fifi should get a pass yet when nothing has been done to definitively clear her/him (I asked this earlier...are you a female fifi?).

[havingfitz]

I'd say there is a fairly high chance that fifi is the actual cult leader considering the evidence (no counter claim; the apparent lack of vig kills) however there are possible explanations for why fifi could be scum and his/her actions certainly seem scummy to me, even if the claim seems to check out. For now he's certainly not worth lynching but we'll see what happens in future days.

The darkstrike lynch was just silly, not only the self-hammer but just the speed at which it happened, and it concerns me a bit that suave is on L-2 so quickly. I'm not saying I don't find him suspicious because his posting this game has been atrociously anti-town at the very best, lets just be a little cautious and use the time we have.

If I had to take a position on fifi it would be that his claim is legit...however, as I’ve sadi before...I think there are enough variables in the game to not make him 100% confirmed town.

Agree on the Darkstrike lynch...admittedly, I was leaning towards lynching him as well but I would not have been in support of such a quick lynch...especially given the fact I missed D2 entirely

@Fitz - I have a dick.

"I’m a dude" would have sufficed...but thanks.

I can now clearly say that the scum have a role blocker. 99%, because fifi may be lying. And fifi was only blocked by them N-1, and that fif is semi cleared. I say semi cleared because although you just said you were role blocked, someone still died. Now either you are a goon lying about being blocked N-1, or you are indeed a pro town power role. Otherwise being role blocked wouldn't do anything, because you would have nothing to do that could be blocked, correct?

About my playstyle, if anyone has played in any games with me (other than Julien who saw me as scum in my first game =p) I pretty much play the same in every game. I can usually pick out scum late game, but it's my gamble. Why? Because people tend not to believe me late game because of my early gameplay. But that's just the way I play for now.

As for who is scum, I'd say that bob or the fitz are scum. One of them is going for the easy kill, which most scum try to go for. Because yes, I play very very scummy =p. I usually get picked off early, or saved till the end because they think they can get an easy lylo lynch off on me. I win some, and lose some, but right now I have a strong feeling that one of them is scum.

As mentioned...fifi is not confirmed and there are numerous scenarios that could explain fifi not successfully recruiting anyone and for there only being 1 kill each night. Why as town you would employ an anti-town playstyle makes no sense to me. As you said...you either make yourself an easy target for scum to push a lynch on or you deflect town from finding the real scum by attracting them to your admittedly “very, very scummy” behaviour. IMO very, very scummy bahavior warrants votes. With 4 anti-town roles still in the game, if you were town I think you would have been lynched already. The fact you are still with us only strengthens my scum read on you.

I think I'm a pretty tempting target for scum actually. This is usually why I make it to late game, or the exact opposite.

You just contradict yourself and leave your gameplay open to interpretation anyway that suits you. The only thing you are taking a firm stance on is the fact you play scummy.

[havingfitz]

how are there 4 anti-town roles in the game? there are a max of 3 scum ever, and the rest of the power roles are pro-town roles. even the cult leader is considered a pro-town role, hence "pro-town cult leader". I can say that, if fifi was indeed role blocked on night one, then the setup for scum is the 1 mafia role blocker and 2 goons. Tell me what the 4th anti-town role is.

If you read the game setup provided on page one you’ll see there are three mafia and a serial killer. I consider those all to be anti-town roles.

So you say if fifi was role blocked there is a roleblocker? Very intuitive. I would also say the possibility also exists that he was protected by a jailkeeper, the person he tried to recruit was protected by the jailkeeper, or he is fakeclaiming.

I didn't contradict myself. I make it to late game, or get killed early. This is because scum either save me for the easy kill at the end, or kill me off early because it's easier. That's all I said. People consider "lurking" scummy, and that's the only reason people usually say I'm scummy. I'm just saying that I play better near the end of the game, unless I know how you play (such as Nikanor if you know who that is). But even then, the majority of my helpfulness is at the end. I've been told that my gameplay is that of the VI, which I don't fully disagree with. But right now, I'm going to say that I think fifi is not scum. I'm between 80-90% sure that he's a townie. And like I said before, 99% sure of the scum set up. There is only 1 setup that has a scum RB, and I know that fifi didn't get RB N-2 by that scum.

Maybe contradict was a bad choice of words...but you basically you either die early or late and scum (when you are town) either target you or keep you. Well that explanantion covers every circumstance....ie points out the obvious and does us no good.

Question to you...how does playing very very scummy when you are town do town any good? How is town supposed to accept your play and keep you around? What good are you to town? You have posted very little...made very little worthwhile (IMO at least) contribution to finding scum...and are providing a defense that is unacceptable (once again...IMO).

I'm going to say that I think fifi is not scum. I'm between 80-90% sure that he's a townie. And like I said before, 99% sure of the scum set up. There is only 1 setup that has a scum RB, and I know that fifi didn't get RB N-2 by that scum.

How do you know fifi didn’t get RB N2? Your inside knowledge is impressive...and scummy.

[havingfitz]

No counter from me.

[havingfitz]

And LlamaFluff os totally distancing from my wagon after i flip town.

Fos

*sigh*

Im trying to get the point accross that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to be scum unless...

vig tried to kill CS night one AND
vig tried to kill NK-immune SK night two AND
SK tried to kill CS or fifi each night

People are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that you are town, and if I have to just repete it again and again I will if thats the only way to get the point accross.

I don't think anyone is ignoring anything. People are suspicious/leery of fifi but do you see any votes on him? Please don't act like you are the voice of reason coming to his rescue. And I like how you say it is impossible for him to be scum and then proceed to give examples of how he could still be scum...which you base on Sauve's claims. I'm more inclined to believe fifi's claim than Suave's but we should see if anyone counterclaims. With a 'confirmed' JK and a possible RB, there are still a lot of scenarios that could cover a fakeclaim by fifi. Ugh.

Unvote

until everyone chimes in. Still not ready to rule Suave out but better to be safe for the moment.

[havingfitz]

With a 'confirmed' JK and a possible RB, there are still a lot of scenarios that could cover a fakeclaim by fifi AND HIS PARTNER SUAVE WHO I FORGOT TO MENTION. Ugh.

Unvote

until everyone chimes in. Still not ready to rule Suave out but better to be safe for the moment.

Fixed

Thanks!

[havingfitz]

I don't think anyone is ignoring anything. People are suspicious/leery of fifi but do you see any votes on him?

well I made a post regarding this earlier today but for some reason it didnt actually get posted. Lets try it again

Keeping him in slight suspicion instead of as town is VERY scummy. One of the most dangerous things to let happen as town is for people to get cleared. I know when playing as scum keeping as many people as "lynchable" in my notes is one of biggest things I try to do during the day, getting rid of unlynchables at night.

There are many more scum motivations for being 'leery' of fifi.

Also you say there are "many" situations where fifi can be scum. Lets hear some (also they need to make sense). Remember that to make fifi scum there needs to be a vig in the game.

How is keeping someone that could conceivably not be town under suspicion VERY scummy? In your it’s “IMPOSSIBLE for you to be scum unless....” post to him you yourself point out three scenarios where he could be scum.

vig tried to kill CS night one AND
vig tried to kill NK-immune SK night two AND
SK tried to kill CS or fifi each night.

//Keeping in mind my comments were made before Suave stated what his JK actions were AND agreeing that there would need to be a Vig AND that there could be a Role Blocker AND fifi is fakeclaiming//

In addition to the scenarios you mention above, other possibilities could include:

Vig RB’d or JK’d N1
Vig RB’d or JK’d N2

If we believe Suave’s night action claim (which I will address to him in a following post) and CS was JK’d N1 and fifi was JK’d N2 other possibilities include:

Vig RB’d N1
Vig RB’d N2

As for the single NKs....keeping in mind there could be a Vig and there is an SK....as mentioned above...the Vig could have been RB’d N1 and the SK could have been going for a Haylen kill at the same time as scum since she had unnecessarily given away the fact she was a pro-town power role (most likely tracker). Night two could have seen a Vig (and or SK) go for Civil Scum kill at the same time as scum in conjunction with either the Vig or SK being RB’d.

Also...is there anyway of knowing if a possible Vig has more than one shot? If it is a one-shot Vig he or she could have passed on a N1 kill (and N2 for that matter).

As I said in post 397:

“If I had to take a position on fifi it would be that his claim is legit...however, as I’ve sadi before...I think there are enough variables in the game to not make him 100% confirmed town.”

That’s all I’m saying...I am resigned to think fifi is town but it's not the strongest feel because of his gameplay so far. Suave’s recent claim definitely makes the situation more interesting and I look forward to hearing everyone’s non-counters. Also...has everyone countered as not-cult mentor in response to fifi’s claim?

Additionally, I find it suspicious and hypocritical that fifi would vote Suave immediately after Suave claimed and then insinuate I was scum (for I assume my continued reluctance to anoint him (fifi) as confirmed town)...when he (fifi) is essentially doing the same thing with regard to Suave (ie not taking the claim for face value and continuing to be suspicious of).

Lastly...I am in no way trying to induce a Vig claim with my hypothetical scenarios. Though I don't think we can eliminate either fifi or Suave's claims if there isn't a Vig.

[havingfitz]

God, I RB CS night one because I was prodded to pick my target(I had forgot I was a JK) and CS just seemed like a good idea. I picked fifi N-2 because it was just a random choice. I was just trying to RB mafia and get a no kill at night, or maybe save someone. But really, there is no reason to my madness

If you are a jailkeeper you’re the worst focking JK ever. First...your lurking and lack of content value is off the charts. You admit your play is very very scummy which does sh;t for town and only makes life easier for scum. Then you require a prod to focking do your N1 action and when you do...you just throw it out there (on someone who had garnered some D1 suspicions iirc) instead of protecting fifi, a claimed Cult Leader, AND another vaguely claimed PR in Haylen...who even asked you to protect her. So you have cost the town their Tracker. Sweet.

Then you protect/aka block fifi the next night (and effectively preventing a recruiting action that could confirm another townie)....when he just happens to NOT be the scum NK target (unless we are to assume the SK or a Vig killed Civil Scum). Ridiculous. Thanks for helping the town players who have put time and effort into this game (not!).

I’m not prepared to vote you again until everyone has chimed in with their counters...which makes me sad because you deserve lynching.

[havingfitz]

God, I RB CS night one because I was prodded to pick my target(I had forgot I was a JK) and CS just seemed like a good idea. I picked fifi N-2 because it was just a random choice. I was just trying to RB mafia and get a no kill at night, or maybe save someone. But really, there is no reason to my madness

Nitpicking a bit but I'm not sure I like your usage of the term 'RB' - roleblocked - since your claimed role also has an element of protection. Why protect somebody you thought to be mafia?

Sorry, but this is just a great point.

And Suave deserves to die indeed.

Unvote Vote Mr Suave

? Fifi....how is Suave’s claim any different from yours? Until everyone else has had a chance to counterclaim his JK claim would appear to be as valid as yours. Also, why the need to unvote Suave and then vote him again?

@Llamafluff....what are your thoughts on the Suave claim and fifi’s ensuing actions? Did the other possibilities I brought up make sense to you?

@all...is there value in asking the as yet to be established Vig to claim? Not sure how we would proceed if there was a Vig claim...that would just confirm that one of our claimants was lying.

[havingfitz]

@all...is there value in asking the as yet to be established Vig to claim? Not sure how we would proceed if there was a Vig claim...that would just confirm that one of our claimants was lying.

EBWOP...actually a potential Vig claim would not confirm any of our current claimants were fakeclaiming as there's the setup that includes all the town PRs....a possible Vig claim would only open up the possibility that fifi or Suave were fakeclaiming.

[havingfitz]

If there is no counterclaim for a JK...then the only way Suave's isn't legitimate is if there is a Vig.

[havingfitz]

If there is no counterclaim for a JK...then the only way Suave's isn't legitimate is if there is a Vig.

So you think fifi is lying and suave isnt?

If suave gets to L-1 im going to freak out a bit. Although I would expect at least two anti-town on his wagon right now, more likely three.

Suave is the most recent claim and my comment above is pertaining to him. I have already stated similar thoughts on fifi.

Die please. And

havingfitz

.

Care to elaborate? Your play has been pretty cr@p but I am still currently giving your claim the benefit of the doubt (in case you noticed which I have no doubt you haven't). I assume your sentiment above is simply an OMGUS response to the fact I am not saying 'fifi is 100% confimed town." Even if you are a PR your about as valuable to town as JK Suave. <shaking head>

[havingfitz]

okay, well I was trying not to get myslef killed for sure tonight, but whatever. I'm incharge of the jail which makes me the JK; I RB fifi last night, and I RB CS on N-1. so there you have it. BAM

Yeah, you claimed pretty obviously in the post fitz was pushing you on.

Im not countering.

Call me dense, but can you give me the exact post number? I'm posting quickly before class and can't find it.

It's interesting to me because I would quite like to see whether Suave was trying a sneaky soft-claim to gauge town reactions.

I think posts 396-399 are what is being referred to.

[havingfitz]

Ouch. Massclaim this early. And quickly agreed with by almighty bob..

Fos LLama

Could you answer my earlier question to you?

Also...considering there is only one pro-town PR that has yet to potentially be identified...is a massclaim really that big of a deal? It's more of a "are there any counterclaims to fifi and Suave and oh by the way...is there a Vig." If there is a Vig....then the possibility exists that any of the three of you (fifi, Suave, Vig) are lying as there are set ups that exclude each of the PRs. If there isn't a Vig...and no counterclaims...then you (fifi) and Suave are confirmed town IMO. So actually a massclaim is probably in your best interests (assuming there is no Vig).

So why is your vote still on your scummy fellow claimee?

[havingfitz]

Not sure how you determined that order but no matter...I'm cool with a claim either way since I'm just

Vanilla Townie

[havingfitz]

@fifi - Care to answer the questions I had for you in posts 430, 441 & 449?

@Llamafluff....what are your thoughts on the Suave claim and fifi’s ensuing actions? Did the other possibilities I brought up make sense to you?

Suave is town from the claim again because there isnt a vig.

Until everyone hass ahd a chance to chime in...how can you be so sure there isn't a Vig?

[havingfitz]

?

EBWOP....

Until everyone

has had

a chance to chime in...how can you be so sure there isn't a Vig?

[havingfitz]

Sorry...got tied up with RL over the weekend. Looks like I didn't miss much though.

[havingfitz]

Dramonic replaces TeWuicah, and I have a replacement on hold... So watch your back, guys.

Ooo...mod pressure. I like it!

[havingfitz]

OK...not Vig claims sooooo:

Unvote: MrSuave

fock.

That's two players I have had stronger suspicions towards claiming with no counters. Hate to keep flakey/scummy players in the game but at least we can consider them town. As someone mentioned...that leaves 4 scum in two groups within 7 to uncover. Cyanide was suspicious to me whilst still in the game but Llama has done better. I need to start re-reading a bit as none of the six unknowns to me, other than perhaps Dr Cyanide, had been that high on my scumdar.

[havingfitz]

Okay, I need a few things clarified (havent done a reread yet)

Why in the name of god was there a NL day 1?
Why are we only getting 1 kill per night when we have a mafia and a SK?

Too many D1 lurkers prevented us reaching a majority...though the primary D1 target was lynched fairly quickly D2 w/ an assist from a self vote and flopped town.

Any combination of jailkeeping, possible roleblocking, and possible parallel kill target?

[havingfitz]

Check these two votecounts out

Darkstrike_11 (7): MrSuave, Civil Scum,

TehWuicah, almightybob,

The1fifi, Darkstrike_11,

Mr. Sandman (voted post hammer)

Mr.Suave (3):

havingfitz, almightybob,

The1fifi,

Mr. Sandman (in spirit)

Im debating revising my list a bit to add AMB as SK over fitz given that with Sandman he has been on both wagons (that almost everone on has flipped or proven town). Sandman has been much sneakier on the wagons though with the post vote and his play on Suave.

Llama...when was the Mr Suave VC made?

In all honesty...I was not sold on Suave’s claim until there was no counter and no Vig. So I can't fault others for the same reluctance at moving their vote (or having it there in the first place).

Additionally...as I was v/LA on D2 and completely missed the Darkstrike lynch, I would have most likely voted for him as well...though I was willing to let him fight his case harder and extend the day out a bit. That was entirely too quick and scum friendly of a vote. That said...Darkstrikes vote has 4 confirmed town on it which only leaves AMB and TW (aka Dramonic) on it.

I get a town feel from AMB which leaves TW’s vote as the only scum on the DS lynch. I have not looked at Sandman that closely yet but I find it hard to believe scum (knowing they would be contributing to a mislynch) would jump on a mislynch wagon after the hammer had fallen. Though I would not rule him out for that...it’s just more a town move than scum IMO.

That leaves me with Llama, Concerned, and julienvonwolfe. I have had a town feel from Concerned as well for the most part but I need to look at him more closely to seal my view on him. I did not care for Cyanide’s game and if fifi and Suave had not played so scummy, Cyanide would have probably had my vote D1. Llama is playing a good game and being very active, and I am enjoying his analyses...but I am inclined to think he is scum, albeit very good scum hurt by his predecessor’s less than good scum play. Additionally...Civil Scum was pretty hell bent to lynch Cyanide which while completely WIFOM...does make CS’ NK more beneficial to Cyanide (i.e. LlamaFluff) than anyone else.

However...just above Llama fluff on my list of suspects is JVW. He managed to pull off a 12 day absence from the game without any v/LA notice. His ISO 17 where he lists his top three suspects....two confirmed townies and what I would view as a typical token scum buddy included for good measure (Confidanon aka TW aka Dramonic). In his ISO 13 and 15 I view his exchanges with Cyanide as seeding positive sentiment towards Cyanide and hopefully taking some of the pressure off him (Cyanide). He was also fairly consistent on D1 in having his vote on what has become obvious since then...confirmed townies.

As for the SK...that would put him in the group I have just described as having a town feel to me (AMB, Concerned, Sandman). I have not played in a SK game before so I really don’t know what I’m looking for since for the most part (IMO) I would assume they would generally play like town...despite having a conflicting win condition. Which of these three it could be IDK. More reading required but I’m happy to focus on the players I at least have a strong suspicion of.

So if I had to pick three scum right now it would be Llama, Dramonic, and JVW. And JVW is fairly far in the lead.

So...

Vote: julienvonwolfe

Also...

fifi is past the prod deadline

. Way to continue helping the team fifi. You are finally confirmed town and you contribute squat. I so wish you weren’t confirmed so I could have my vote on you. You are really a detriment to town winning this game. Thanks.

[havingfitz]

Also...

fifi is past the prod deadline

. Way to continue helping the team fifi. You are finally confirmed town and you contribute squat. I so wish you weren’t confirmed so I could have my vote on you. You are really a detriment to town winning this game. Thanks.

Can this sound any less genuine?

Can it be any more accurate? I've been on fifi the entire game and the only thing keeping me off him is the fact he is essentially confirmed town.

Shouldn't you be posting more worthwhile content than misinformed one-liners? You have a lot of work to do to make up for your predecessors. Though that might be more work/investment than scum is willing to put in.

[havingfitz]

Aren't we an aggressive little guy.
It's a flawless defense fifi has, he hasn't posted anywhere in multiple days. He'll just get replaced and we'll proceed from there.

Did I come across as aggressive? Not my intention. Just providing my opinion. Which I'm pretty comfortable with in regards to fifi. I wholeheartedly welcome his potential replacement as they would have to be an improvement. Both in quantity and most likely quality of posts.

I also don't think my comments on your input so far can be repudiated either. Though understandably it could take time to catch up and have a solid grasp on the game dynamics. I know it would take me awhile if I was replacing in at this point. Good luck with that

[havingfitz]

o____o... really, my bad. ^_^;;;

It's becoming your standard operating procedure. No need to apologize.

[havingfitz]

In all honesty...I was not sold on Suave’s claim until there was no counter and no Vig. So I can't fault others for the same reluctance at moving their vote (or having it there in the first place).

When did you realize there was no vig?

When the last person to claim didn’t claim it. If I hgad to guess I would have thought there wasn’t one based on the low number of NKs...but there were possible scenarios (which I brought up earlier at your request) that could have allowed for there to still be one (a Vig).

I get a town feel from AMB which leaves TW’s vote as the only scum on the DS lynch. I have not looked at Sandman that closely yet but I find it hard to believe scum (knowing they would be contributing to a mislynch) would jump on a mislynch wagon after the hammer had fallen. Though I would not rule him out for that...it’s just more a town move than scum IMO.

Sandmans post looked genuinely surprised to me when he was told that was hammer +1. Also remember scum is able to SK hunt in this game though, and SK is able to scum hunt.

Oh also if you want to add "sandman has done zero scumhunting since *argueably* his vote of DS" you can. He has spent the entrie day defending against me pushing him instead of going back to a suave case early (which would of made sense) or even pushing a new case.

Admittedly I need to give a few players a closer look over again....mainly Concerned and Sandman as they have not posted that much. My feel towards them is mostly that they haven’t done anything that at the moment caught my attention.

As for the SK...that would put him in the group I have just described as having a town feel to me (AMB, Concerned, Sandman). I have not played in a SK game before so I really don’t know what I’m looking for since for the most part (IMO) I would assume they would generally play like town...despite having a conflicting win condition. Which of these three it could be IDK. More reading required but I’m happy to focus on the players I at least have a strong suspicion of.

You look for who is reading as scum. They are probably the SK. That or you hope that somehow scum figured out who the SK is through a RB and use that to get them lynched.

I just need to go look in a few completed games that had SK’s to see how they were uncovered...assuming they were. Your last line read a little odd to me. Almost like it was advice coming from mafia.

[havingfitz]

Thinking more about fitz' case on me, he accuses me of mainly targeting people we know to be innocent (Suave and Fifi).

Yet he has himself spent much time voting for Suave, he voted for Darkstrike day one (and would have on day two), and FOSed Fifi. This makes him seem hypocritical to me.

Llama, you seem to think I'm scum. I'm not completely sure why, though. Can you explain for me?

That was only one of the points I brought up against you. They were scummy IMO...but now we know they are town. When I look at the votes on them...any of the wagons I may have been on I rule myself out because I am not scum. Then I factor out any people I may have a town read on and any that are confirmed town. In more than one vote on D1, that leaves me with you. Ex below (ISO #s are for Nacho):

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: 9
Day 1 Votecount:
The1fifi (4) - CS, Concerned, julien, bv130
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: 11
Day 1 Votecount:
Haylen (3) - almightybob, The1fifi, julien
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: 13
Day 1 Votecount:
Haylen (1) - julienwolfe
MrSuave (2) - Mr.Sandman, havingfitz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: 16
Day 1 Votecount:
The1fifi (2) - bv130, julienvonwolfe
bv310 (2) - havingfitz, Haylen

[havingfitz]

I responded to your other point about Cyanide, and your point about my lurking is shit because lurking isn't a scumtell (I thought we were past newbie games).

I’ll drop the Cyanide point...it was just the intial read I had when I read those parts of your ISO. As for lurking...I never actually accused you of lurking, I just pointed out that you had a 12 day absence without reason. But since you brought lurking up....is it a scumtell when it’s active lurking? You seem to have had plenty of opportunities in this game to continue making posts while you were away from this one. Is that point is shit?

Your point about my vote being on confirmed townies is your best one but even then it's not good as I'm fairly sure that it's not uncommon for one townie to vote for two other townies during day one. It's just coincidence here that both turned out to be innocent despite their play.

I’m pretty sure it’s not uncommon for scum to vote townies on D1 as well. My point was...on several D1 votecounts that in hindsight were on townies...you were on them. And with 3 scum (4 counting the SK) still in the game, I can not imagine that a wagon on town with 2 or more players does not contain scum...and knowing who on the wagon is town (from their flops and claims) and who I think is more likely to be town...leaves you. I could be wrong but the things that strike me as scummy have been pointing me your way.

[havingfitz]

the night kills don't add up... scum/SK was blocked each night. that or someone didn't kill. which makes no sense.

Suave...this topic has been discussed fairly extensively. Your comment above brings absolutely nothing to the game. Since we are considering you confirmed town now...can you perhaps assist the town a bit and provide some content of value? Show us some scum hunting? Be fockin' useful and provide more than one-liners that aren't (fockin' useful that is).

Also...we need more Concerned. Dramonic has not really provided anything yet so he is keeping pace with his predecessors. AMB...any thoughts on current events?

@At all - Would it be useful if every gave their thoughts on who they suspect (as some of us have done)?

[havingfitz]

My main two are fitz and Sandman, if that interests you

Can't argue with that (other than the fact you provide no rationale). Thanks!

[havingfitz]

So deadline is coming up, people should start voting so stuff actually happens.

Deadline extension of one week granted; thus, deadline falls on April 5th, same time.

Deadline extension of one week granted; thus, deadline falls on April 5th, same time.

Day 3 Votecount:

Mr.Sandman (1): LlamaFluff
Mr.Suave (1): almightybob,
julienwolfe (1): havingfitz

Not Voting (6): Mr.Sandman, Concerned, TehWuicah, almightybob, julienvonwolfe, Netopalis

I thought AMB unvoted and Tehwuicah was replaced. And did someone ask for an extension?

[havingfitz]

@fitz - Im guessing extension came from having a replacement. I normally reset close deadlines to 5-7 days from when a replacement joined when I mod. TW=dram, so thats just a VC error

Also you should vote.

In addition to the vote I already made?

[havingfitz]

Well if you ARE a double voter it would be a good time to claim it... more likely though is that I forgot you were actually voting.

I agree...the second option is more likely.

[havingfitz]

The game appears to have stopped.

Observations...

Llama seems distracted.
JVW hasn't chimed in much other than to defend my case towards him...and not responded to my active lurker question/example.
Suave feels obliged to chime in but not contribute.
Looking forward to Neto/confirmed town take on things.
Sandman has picked things up a bit.
I'm concerned about Concerned.
AMB?
.........AMB?
..................AMB?

[havingfitz]

I’ll drop the Cyanide point...it was just the intial read I had when I read those parts of your ISO. As for lurking...I never actually accused you of lurking, I just pointed out that you had a 12 day absence without reason. But since you brought lurking up....is it a scumtell when it’s active lurking? You seem to have had plenty of opportunities in this game to continue making posts while you were away from this one. Is that point is shit?

Sorry for the delay. Busy time for me RL.

Regarding that game; my policy with this site is that if I post on one game, I post in all of my games unless I am unable (eg. it is night). I think the reason it looks like I have posted there and not here is simply due to it being night in this game.

All in all, I think Dramonic and Llama are scummiest.

You posted in your other game...during your 12 day absence...when it was not night in this game. Seems kind of active lurkish to me. As for the two you think are scummiest...they are in my top three as well.

I was busy (RL) all weekend so I have not had a chance to read up on Sandman. He is one I have not got a feel for yet so I would not be up for voting him ATT.

[havingfitz]

That doesnt sound like a cheap deflection attempt at all.

The truth hurts.

[havingfitz]

Yay I was right that if we let fitz alone he would go and kill JVW for us.

@fitz/neto - Neither of you should have taken an action. Failed action was an auto-loss.

How exactly did you have me pegged as the SK? I had no choice for my night actions...I had to kill every night. I suspected the three scum were within the LlamaFluff, AMB, Dramonic, and JVW group. Almost switched to LF after the April Fool's revelation. Stayed with JVW because I was suspicious of him and implicating me in his demise would have been obvious WIFOM.

It would appear Mr Suave didn't jailkeep Neto last night and that Neto tried to recruit scum. If Suave had kept Neto alive would the game still have been over?

Neto was a great replacement, Dramonic not, and Suave was crap.

Good game scum.

fock.

[havingfitz]

@Nacho...I realized that option after I asked the question. Did Suave try to jailkeep Neto? Also...thanks for modding. It was fun being something other than town for once.

You were SK because scum apparently tried to kill you N1 for whatever reason. It failed so you had to be NK-immune.

Also if this gets ran again SK should not be compulsive.

I assumed I had tried to kill the same target as scum after Haylen 'claimed' a PR.