Open 213 -- Mini Love (Over)

[easjo682]

Easjo: why did you vote for the only claimed lover? We don't want lover lynches.

Because I think he's making a false claim knowing the majority don't support a lovers claim and lynch, he probably think that by claiming he's a lover he is safe because everyone is so against lynching them.

[Robocopter87]

I for one believe Yankees claim. I do not think we should lynch him. If we lynch someone else and Yankee is

not

NK'ed then wouldn't that mean the Yankee is most likely scum or lover to scum? I don't like Easjo's eagerness to lynch a possible lover.

@Easjo
What makes you think it is a fake claim?

@Mod: Was my vote on DoItRiley not counted because I didn't unvote? Or was it because you missed it?

I've think that Easjo is more scummy than DoItRiley but I still GMEOY.

Unvote, Vote: Easjo

[DarkLightA]

why would scum claim lover? XD

[Robocopter87]

Oh ya, thats right.....
But hypothetically,
If Yankees partner is the treacherous lover and Yankee just claimed. Would they NK Yankee and effectively kill a Mafia or would they lynch a random person in hopes to kill the Doc or the other Lover pair? I mean, what is the most probable scum reaction?

[easjo682]

why would scum claim lover? XD

because the town has practically said its not going to go with the lynch all lovers idea, so claiming lover makes it less likely for people to lynch him

[Robocopter87]

Hmm, maybe, but I think his claim was town.

[XScorpion]

DLA needs to learn to count.
Here is what's going to happen.
Suppose we don't lynch lovers today. Chances are that we will mislynch and hit a townie (MINUS ONE TOWNIE). At night, the town couple dies (MINUS THREE TOWNIES). We now know who the treacherous lover is paired with, so we lynch them both (MINUS FOUR TOWNIES). At night, another townie gets killed (MINUS FIVE TOWNIES). This is why DLA's plan fails.

Notice how XScorpion says what's bolded in order to attach himself to the idea of "rest of town".

You're stretching.

We will possibly be able to see through who is hesitant to being lynched.

No, you won't, because the treacherous lover might not claim, and you get to decide between two townies. This tells you nothing, no one is hesitant, you simply have 3 people trying to push for the lynch of one of the lovers instead of the other.

Look: The scum are faced with a "if town lovers die then scum+town lovers are revealed to the town".

If town lovers die tonight and scum+town lovers get lynched the next day, we lose three townies before the next night phase where we lose another townie, totaling four dead townies in exchange for one scum. Do you think this is a bad thing for scum? I don't.

The only way this can work out without losing at least four townspeople (assuming doctor fails to protect) is if we lynch the correct (scum+lover) couple today, which means we manage to trade 2 town for a scum, and force the doctor to protect the other townie for the rest of the game.

[CJMiller]

@Mod: Lovers die together, right? They don't die the next morning/night?

If a Lover dies, their mate commits suicide at the beginning of the next game cycle.

[Yankee]

XScorpion and Easjo are pushing it. You keep trying to convince the town that this is a bad idea because we will lose 5 townies to kill 1 scum, but you fail to realize (or at least fail to show) that the doctor WILL BE PROTECTING the town lovers during the night therefore we will not lose them. Yes, it is true we may lynch the wrong lovers today and end up losing 5 townies, but that is where scum hunting comes into play and I feel confident we can manage to kill the scum pair today leaving us with a 2-1 ratio on scum, which is not good for them at all. That 2-1 ratio is why scum is afraid of claiming lovers because that is a very bad ratio for them and they would rather sit back and not claim and randomly kill who they think is lovers and get a 2 for 1 NK.

Unvote

Top 2 suspects now are XScorpion/Easjo for trying to twist the fact. Off to work again...

[DarkLightA]

Oh ya, thats right.....
But hypothetically,
If Yankees partner is the treacherous lover and Yankee just claimed. Would they NK Yankee and effectively kill a Mafia or would they lynch a random person in hopes to kill the Doc or the other Lover pair? I mean, what is the most probable scum reaction?

No, the point is that if we have one from both pairs claim, then if the mafia kill the town pair, we know that the other is scum so we can lynch it. Scum won't kill treacherous pair.

why would scum claim lover? XD

because the town has practically said its not going to go with the lynch all lovers idea, so claiming lover makes it less likely for people to lynch him [/quote]
Did you notice that I wrote in big bold letters that everyone had to read a quote that I posted? Well, if you'd read that you'd have understood that we AREN'T LYNCHING LOVERS!!!! We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS. If the other pair don't claim, and Yankee's part of the town pair, then we're screwed.

[DoItRiley]

I have a lot to say but I'm going to go tan so I'll post after I get back inside. But for the record, I'm not hohum or SensFan. Ironically neither of those two and I got along well. I spoke out against them multiple times.

[XScorpion]

but you fail to realize (or at least fail to show) that the doctor WILL BE PROTECTING the town lovers during the night therefore we will not lose them.

We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS.

I must be missing something here. How does the doctor know which is the town pair? What is stopping scum from 2-for-1'ing the town pair tonight?

[DarkLightA]

why would scum claim lover? XD

because the town has practically said its not going to go with the lynch all lovers idea, so claiming lover makes it less likely for people to lynch him

Did you notice that I wrote in big bold letters that everyone had to read a quote that I posted? Well, if you'd read that you'd have understood that we AREN'T LYNCHING LOVERS!!!! We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS. If the other pair don't claim, and Yankee's part of the town pair, then we're screwed.

Sorry, quote failed

[Yankee]

but you fail to realize (or at least fail to show) that the doctor WILL BE PROTECTING the town lovers during the night therefore we will not lose them.

We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS.

I must be missing something here. How does the doctor know which is the town pair? What is stopping scum from 2-for-1'ing the town pair tonight?

Well there are 3 possibilities that could happen today.

A).

We dont lynch any lovers
Outcome:

1). Doctor is free to protect anyone he wants that is not a claimed lover (No doctor protection for either lover pair)
2). Scum do not kill Town lovers because it would expose the treacherous lover.
3). If Scum does kill town lovers, then we kill treacherous lovers day 2.

B).

We lynch Town Lovers
Outcome:

1). Doctor will protect claimed treacherous lover Night 1 (only because we wont find out if they are treacherous or not until the next morning)
2). Scum kill random person Night 1.
3). We kill treacherous lovers day 2

C).

We lynch Treacherous Lovers
Outcome:

1). Doctor will protect claimed town lover Night 1.
2). We Eliminate 1 Mafia at the expense of 2 Townies
3). We have a confirmed townie (and one somewhat confirmed townie because if we get close to lynching the other lover the claimed lover can claim him)

Hope this clears things up for you, although I doubt it will because you seem so opposed to this idea that you are blocking out any input given from DLA or myself and not being helpful to make this claiming work. The claiming is going to get done, it is already started. Deal with it and stop complaining about it. You have major scum points in my book for that. Work with what we have now.

[XScorpion]

1). Doctor is free to protect anyone he wants that is not a claimed lover (No doctor protection for either lover pair)
2). Scum do not kill Town lovers because it would expose the treacherous lover.
3). If Scum does kill town lovers, then we kill treacherous lovers day 2.

1 is nice. 2 will not happen. We lynch today, MAYBE hit scum (probably not, so minus one townie). Scum will probably kill town lovers (minus three townies). we kill treacherous lover (minus four townies). Townie gets killed next night. We just traded 5 townies for 1 scum, and MAYBE catching a scum on day one. In other words, THIS IS BAD.

1). Doctor will protect claimed treacherous lover Night 1 (only because we wont find out if they are treacherous or not until the next morning)
2). Scum kill random person Night 1.
3). We kill treacherous lovers day 2

Same result as above, in other words, BAD.

1). Doctor will protect claimed town lover Night 1.
2). We Eliminate 1 Mafia at the expense of 2 Townies
3). We have a confirmed townie (and one somewhat confirmed townie because if we get close to lynching the other lover the claimed lover can claim him)

This is the ONLY good outcome. The chances of this are not only very slim, but DLA does not want this outcome to happen (he is opposed to lynching lovers today).

So, explain why it was good to put us in this situation? Why are you not scum for basically dooming the town? The only way this claiming will "work" is if we magically hit the scum lovers. So, a) if we aren't lynching lovers as DLA says, why did you claim? And b) if we are lynching lovers, why are my complaints not justified?

Either I'm missing something really obvious here which STILL hasn't been explained to me (that is, why is this a good plan?), or this plan is a disaster, and DLA (for thinking this nightmare up in the first place) or you are likely scum for putting town in this position despite the majority of town not agreeing with you.

We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS.

Can I get a straight answer to why this is true?

[Looker]

DarkLight: Was there anything you wanted me to reply to or speak on in particular?

I have a lot to say but I'm going to go tan so I'll post after I get back inside. But for the record, I'm not hohum or SensFan. Ironically neither of those two and I got along well. I spoke out against them multiple times.

Hmm...what's the last game you played on your main account?

[Yankee]

1). Doctor is free to protect anyone he wants that is not a claimed lover (No doctor protection for either lover pair)
2). Scum do not kill Town lovers because it would expose the treacherous lover.
3). If Scum does kill town lovers, then we kill treacherous lovers day 2.

1 is nice.

2 will not happen.

We lynch today, MAYBE hit scum

(probably not, so minus one townie)

.

Scum will probably kill town lovers (minus three townies)

. we kill treacherous lover (minus four townies). Townie gets killed next night. We just traded 5 townies for 1 scum, and MAYBE catching a scum on day one.

In other words, THIS IS BAD.

1). Doctor will protect claimed treacherous lover Night 1 (only because we wont find out if they are treacherous or not until the next morning)
2). Scum kill random person Night 1.
3). We kill treacherous lovers day 2

Same result as above, in other words, BAD.

1). Doctor will protect claimed town lover Night 1.
2). We Eliminate 1 Mafia at the expense of 2 Townies
3). We have a confirmed townie (and one somewhat confirmed townie because if we get close to lynching the other lover the claimed lover can claim him)

This is the ONLY good outcome.

The chances of this are not only very slim

, but DLA does not want this outcome to happen (he is opposed to lynching lovers today).

So, explain why it was good to put us in this situation? Why are you not scum for basically dooming the town? The only way this claiming will "work"

is if we magically hit the scum lovers

. So, a) if we aren't lynching lovers as DLA says, why did you claim? And b) if we are lynching lovers, why are my complaints not justified?

Either I'm missing something really obvious here which STILL hasn't been explained to me (that is, why is this a good plan?), or this plan is a disaster, and DLA (for thinking this nightmare up in the first place) or you are likely scum for putting town in this position

despite the majority of town not agreeing with you.

We're getting them to claim, that way the scum CAN'T KILL OFF THE TOWN LOVERS.

Can I get a straight answer to why this is true?

These are all the points I would like to comment on in my next post. Maybe more, but these are the main ones.

[Yankee]

Ya, from reading this and how negative and closed minded you are towards this, and the fact that you are STILL complaining about something that has already happened and you cant go back on and trying to convince us that is it "a bad plan" even though we are already in the middle of it tells me that you are definitely hiding something and are most likely scum, so this will be the last post of mine to try to "explain" anything to you, I have made it blatantly obvious in my posts my opinion and have made it very easy to understand if you actually take the time to read and think about it.

Notice how all these bold points are negatively made, most complaining about the plan in one form or another. Why do you feel the need to complain so much and seemingly try to convince us not to go with this plan when we are already doing it. Even if you are scum trying to do that just drop it already, it is going to happen whether it is a good plan or not, and whether you like it or not. And my opinion on the matter is to lynch lovers day one, that seems to be the only thing me and DLA have difference's in opinion on.

[Yankee]

I decided I wasnt going to waste more of my time explaining over again why this plan is worth the risk because you will just ignore me and complain again, but albeit if someone else would like for me to explain it (minus easjo) then I would be happy to.

[XScorpion]

I guess I'll just have to wait for someone else then to ask my question of why this was worth it in the first place, because you still haven't adequately explained how this plan was more likely to succeed than fail.

But the one thing you are right about is that there is no turning back now. So anyway, what's the plan here? Are we supposed to lynch one of the lovers, or not? It looks like to me that lynching a lover is the best course for the day given the new circumstances, and I'm waiting on DLA to explain why it isn't.

And DLA is right: another lover has to claim now or we are almost certainly screwed.

[Chronopie]

Just repeating myself, for the benefit of everyone:

D1: We lynch Lovers (T/T pair) as scum will know which pair is the T/S pair. [-2]
N1: Random town death [-3]

D2: We Lynch Lovers (T/S pair) on policy. No new leads, as its policy, policy, and more policy. [-4 T, -1 S]
N2: Random town death. [-5 T, -1S]

D3: No leads from D2. and we have a 4:2 T/S split, instead of a 9:3 split.

[Chronopie]

I guess If we are claiming.

I'm one of the other lover pair. Did not want to have to claim so soon into day 1. Did not want to play lover lynch game -.- **curses Yankee**. Town. (for all the good that'll do me - wifom)

[Yankee]

@Mod: Can we get a prod/replacement for the inactives please?

also, I vote for us lynching one set of lovers, but right now I am undecided as to which one to lynch, we will have to see as the day progresses because I havent gotten a read on everyone yet. But as I mentioned earlier I was somewhat suspicious of Chronopie, but less so now. The reason I was suspicious of him is because he was very strongly opposed to claiming lovers and I believe was the one that misinterpreted the rules to try to keep lovers from claiming. I guess this makes more sense and is less suspicious now that he has claimed lover. Also anyone that actually does the claiming for the lover gets some town points with me because it seems to me that scum would want to hide behind their town counterparts a bit. Right now I am actually leaning towards lynching my lover pair because of certain reasons I do not wish to say without giving away who my lover is.

[Yankee]

By the way, i still find XScorpion and Easjo very suspicious and consider at least one of them (most likely scorpion) to be a goon, if not both.

[Yankee]

Just repeating myself, for the benefit of everyone:

D1: We lynch Lovers (T/T pair) as scum will know which pair is the T/S pair. [-2]
N1: Random town death [-3]

D2: We Lynch Lovers (T/S pair) on policy. No new leads, as its policy, policy, and more policy. [-4 T, -1 S]
N2: Random town death. [-5 T, -1S]

D3: No leads from D2. and we have a 4:2 T/S split, instead of a 9:3 split.

What makes you so sure that scum wouldnt hit lovers anyways in the night without claiming? It is always a possibility especially with 2 target possibilities.