Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[Jack]

I would love to know where the hell Jack came up with the cop-word though.

What?

Vote Count 09: Lynch

Starbuck - 1 - PaltryExcuse
Drippereth - 1 - xvart
Steam Powered Shovel - 1 - Starbuck
SensFan - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
FeFiFoFum - 1 - Jack
xvart -

6

- Elmocrates, Budja, Kmd4390, farside22, FeFiFoFum, Anon
Anon - 1 - Elscouta
MehPlusRawr - 1 - Papa Zito
xofelf - 1 - SensFan
Jack - 3 - SpyreX, SocioPath, J-Scope
Cyberbob - 2 - Cobalt, Iecerint
Papa Zito - 2 - Drippereth, ooba
Elscouta - 1 - curiouskarmadog
Cobalt -1 - Cyberbob

Not Voting (2): MehPlusRawr, xofelf

With 25 players alive it'll take 13 to lynch and 13 to no-Lynch.

There are no players in the

Halls of Mandos

, so right now there are no

Revive

or

Destroy

counts.

[Kmd4390]

The Sens vote had nothing to do with reactions. Confidential = private.

Also, happy birthday.

I don't understand how it can hurt to tell us why Sens should be policy lynched. I don't see how it helps not to tell us. You are making no sense by witholding this.

Thank you.

I want to know why Jack decided it was a good time to talk about breadcrumbing.

Its distracting from other topics that were just starting to get good attention (xofelf's meta claim, a new wave of xvart votes and defense), which is a bit suspicious coming from someone who hasn't been scumhunting.

Bolding mine. No, we don't want this info. It should have never come up and shouldn't be discussed now. This reeks of scum trying to spring up a discussion about who a townie thought might be a power role. Basically, extended rolefishing.

I'd vote you on this alone if the xvart wagon wasn't so good.

And say lol? I don't even know how to react to this because

nobody

is dumb enough to say this unsarcastically; but on the other hand you aren't showing any objective signs of actually being sarcastic.

Yeah, I'm sarcastic pretty often and people can rarely tell. I have a friend who is the same way. Scary thing is, I may be playing a game soon with this friend as a hydra.

I feel wiser already.

Scum alerting the town to the presence of a breadcrumb is a bad idea because it might tip off any protective roles that didn't see it. It would be much better as scum to just sit on that information. This Jack wagon is unremarkable.

Then again, the exchange Jack and Spyrex had made me do a double take: Jackscum

Conspiracy theory: The breadcrumb doesn't exist.

Conspiracy theory #2: [redacted]

Iecerint's wagon hop is giving me the heebie jeebies.

-crates

^Elmocrates' towniest post all game.

By Elmo's logic, cops should claim D1, because protective roles will be able to find them, anyway.

Awesome misrep.

--------------------

I see Cyberbob keeps mentioning my scumclaim. Basically, I was getting sick of Xvart's assumptions that anyone who says they are scum in the RVS must be and then he goes on to say that Farside and I are clearing him and stuff so yeah.

People are here for Easter now though, so I'll finish reading this later.

Note to self: Start at 213

[MehPlusRawr]

I missed this thread, fail on my part. I'll do a quick read soon.

[J-Scope]

Ok, so nothing odd about what xofelf said about how she reads SensFan's play. That was a dead end.

However, the fact you see an inactive lurker to be more worth your vote is just plain odd.

If you are looking for interesting things to comment on:
xvart seems to compulsively misrep/generalise. Agree/disagree? Scummy or not?
Jack made a random cop breadcrumb comment and and produces little content. I found that scummy. Do you agree?

Meh's not posting in other games the last time I checked, so there's no reason to think he's ignoring this game yet. At least Jack is ignoring alot of events in this game by talking strategy well after RVS; well talking once then trying to deflect attention.

I'll let my other half backup his town read on xvart, but I also don't find him scummy. Pressuring Els early looked valid, its a meager reason but something to build on by saying town wouldn't put out that WIFOM to the group. And I agree with him that Elmo's analogy is not similar. Signing a name should be a null tell, without any WIFOM. However, I also believe Else was talking about another game, so he wasn't sending out any WIFOM at all. Case closed, move on.

With Jack, like I'm going to reiterate for kmd, I find him scummy for talking strategy instead of scumhunting. I don't know how my other half feels yet.

-----------------------

I want to know why Jack decided it was a good time to talk about breadcrumbing.

Its distracting from other topics that were just starting to get good attention (xofelf's meta claim, a new wave of xvart votes and defense), which is a bit suspicious coming from someone who hasn't been scumhunting.

Bolding mine. No, we don't want this info. It should have never come up and shouldn't be discussed now. This reeks of scum trying to spring up a discussion about who a townie thought might be a power role. Basically, extended rolefishing.

I'd vote you on this alone if the xvart wagon wasn't so good.

I wasn't asking him to explain who he thought was breadcrumbing; I was asking him why he wasn't scumhunting when there were scums to hunt. The next sentence explains that. He was distracting from better topics, hence my vote on him for not giving any content while talking useless strategy.

[Jack]

Ok, so nothing odd about what xofelf said about how she reads SensFan's play. That was a dead end.

He was distracting from better topics

[Iecerint]

I totally missed that bullet last night @ CB. I thought you were conspicuously avoiding that issue, especially when I noticed your "catch-up-after-easter!" post where you quoted that bit. Now that I've seen it, your explanation on that issue is fine.

SBS, I was way too compromised to read and review all the "post XX is good"-type comments last night. That is why it is now 3 PM. I just read his post for stuff I could recognize offhand, and the main case against him so far. I kept looking for him to address it in an @ Cobalt, but he did it in an @ Budja, so I missed it. The only @ Cobalt I saw weakly discredited Cobalt on grounds CB himself was probably guilty of (given that it was a catch-up post), he also suspected another player who was suspicious of him (Budja), he misrepresented my point on SF IMO, and he ignored Jack, so I had a pretty negative perception of his comeback post.

CB, you didn't have to weigh in on the little theory debate. You just had to say whether Jack was naughty. You've said that Els's was irrelevant because it referred to a previous game and that Kmd's was fine, too (even though you posted about it? and then you said that it was fine by benefit-of the-doubt?). What about Jack's? And why do you want him to show you the Cop breadcrumb? O.o

[SpyreX]

I still have absolutely no idea what game Jack is playing at and actively don't like it enough I really, for reallies, want him to take a rope.

At team xvart: can I get some concise whats going on?

[Elscouta]

Catchup post incoming ...
-------------------------------------------
81: Wtf? I just don't understand the reasoning in this post at all.
92: Wtf(2)? You mean you want to lynch people that don't fit your playstyle instead of scums?
101: I like that post.
102 is xvart twisting other players words. Bad.
116 : Why is Drippereth only using one-liners when saying "X is scum" or "Y is town". This feels completely unproductive to me. Is it her usual playstyle?
120 : Drippereth is again completely confusing me. (S)he called Starbuck scum for defending me, and now is calling xvart scum for having attacked me.
145:

@Anon:

Yeah sure. Nice scumlist. Now, would you care to explain this list, plz?

@El,

What with the copious amounts of information each person is giving on your wagon, how do you define those ones as more opportunistic?

I don't like Anon and Drippereth because they have been both attacking me and xvart, with very little reasoning. xvart looks stubborn-townie to me, and I liked your recent posts.

155 : The infamous Jack comment. Yes, it's 100% dumb. Does that mean Jack is scum? I don't see any reason to see this comment had more odds to be posted by scum than by town.
178 : Is Cobalt always using one-liners to participate to the discussion, and is he used to never explain his vote? He did exactly that as scum in the game I was with him, so I would like to know if he also plays like that as town.
180 : :dumbposting: Is it so frequent on MS to claim being scum that such claims are taken seriously?
181 : cf 178. But yes, Cyberbob desserves a vote for his last post.
184 : /me bangs head on desk. Drippereth, could you please, for the sake of I don't know who, make posts of more than one line.

Why are you attacking someone for joining a bandwagon. Why is it scummy Day 1? Why was it worth commenting on when so many have already joined the wagon (which I approve of fyi). Do you still like you Anon vote? Why? If you had to put a % on Xvart being town versus scum..what would it be?

I felt Anon was opportunistic in joining my wagon, yes. I feel the same of Drippereth. And if i could have two votes, I would have one on both of them. I have a null-read on xvart, so let's say 25% odds of being scum (the usual rate of scum in a large game).

205 : What's the case on Papa Zito. I just don't see it at all...

210 : Nice OMGUS.

Conclusions :

- Cyberbob, Anon and Drippereth are scummy.
- I would like Cobalt, Anon and Drippereth to explain their reasoning when voting (especially Anon, for his scumlist of post 145)

[Iecerint]

Half of Drippereth is DrippingGoofball. 95% chance that she's responsible for the posts that are alarming you. That is typical DGB behavior. See Kingdom Hearts mafia for townDGB; she catches scum just about every day with similar tactics.

Cobalt is literally always scum in my past experience IIRC (Super UPick, Kingdom Hearts, Precision). I thought he was scummy in Precision, so I don't think that game was inconsistent with his scum meta. (No word on his town meta, though.) However, I think the CB vote was timely, even though Budja was the one who explicated it.

102 is xvart twisting other players words. Bad.

xvart looks stubborn-townie to me

I get the impression that the shift in how you're reading xvart is a by-product of suspecting Drip and Anon. Do I have that right?

[SpyreX]

El, while I appreciate liking recent posts that doesn't answer my question of why those ones at the time of your statement.

[Drippereth]

Xofelf's Sens obsession = Scummy
Steamshovel's posts all about nothing = scum.
KMD also = town.

I think Jack is a pretty smart guy and I've seen him do weird stuff as town or as scum. No read there for now.

Unvote, Vote Steamshovel

[Elscouta]

@Icerint : No. I don't suspect strongly xvart because I've seen this kind of behavior (starting an over-zealous wagon at beginning of day 1) independently of alignment.

@SpyreX : I really disliked that Anon made a joke in his post, and voted for me. Drippereth voting me, then xvart also raised my eyebrows.

[Elmocrates]

I still have absolutely no idea what game Jack is playing at and actively don't like it enough I really, for reallies, want him to take a rope.

There is one thing I could expect to see out of Jack that will make everyone's eyes go wide in awe and go "It all makes so much sense now!"

(Besides, best course of action for Jack is to try and get this line of discussion dropped, regardless of his alignment, which is what he appears to be doing.)

The xvart wagon has lost my interest. I believe Elmo is cool on it as well. There is nothing in his responses to the wagon that a townxvart wouldn't say nor a scumxvart couldn't say.

unvote, vote: SPS

His whining about how lame the xvart wagon is while doing no scum hunting himself is turbo scummy.

Incedentally, I have yet to find issue with a read Drip has thrown out. G'day

-crates

[Elmocrates]

Also, I like what bob is posting so far, I get the impression that Budja is happy to be a part of any wagon he can get away with, and I would have a beer with KMD and day of the week (or at least I would if I drank).

[Cyberbob]

What?

It was a bit of rhetoric.

I see Cyberbob keeps mentioning my scumclaim. Basically, I was getting sick of Xvart's assumptions that anyone who says they are scum in the RVS must be and then he goes on to say that Farside and I are clearing him and stuff so yeah.

Yeah, someone pointed that out for me. S'cool.

The only @ Cobalt I saw weakly discredited Cobalt on grounds CB himself was probably guilty of (given that it was a catch-up post)

No, you're dumb. I haven't posted too many posts but the ones I have have all had a lot more content than Cobalt's. I don't think you've put any effort into this at all.

he also suspected another player who was suspicious of him (Budja)

You're reading a lot more into that than is actually there. OMGUS only works if the return fire is on shaky ground; I would have said exactly the same things about him regardless of whether he was suspicious of me or not. His suspicion was easily dealt with in any case as it was based on a quick little misunderstanding that was simple to clarify.

he misrepresented my point on SF IMO

Dude, I barely said anything about your point on SF and it was a straight-up disagreement, not an attack. Why are you being so reactive to literally everything I say about you?

and he ignored Jack

No I didn't.

CB, you didn't have to weigh in on the little theory debate. You just had to say whether Jack was naughty. You've said that Els's was irrelevant because it referred to a previous game and that Kmd's was fine, too (even though you posted about it? and then you said that it was fine by benefit-of the-doubt?). What about Jack's? And why do you want him to show you the Cop breadcrumb? O.o

I have no idea what the hell you are trying to say here. The last sentence is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever and I can tell you that I in no way want or wanted him to show me the breadcrumb.

You have misrepresented, twisted, overreacted to and outright invented some of my words. This is getting tiring; I suggest you keep a glass of water by your side when posting so you can take a drink whenever your fingers start to stumble over one another in your haste to type. Stream-of-consciousness is not an appropriate style for mafia, sorry.

[Cyberbob]

Connections between Iec and Cobalt as well as Iec and Drippereth. Possible between Iec and Budja.

Xofelf needs more scrutiny from people I feel, her posting has been almost entirely metachat with SF and nobody has commented on it apart from the odd mention in passing.

[Jack]

It was a bit of rhetoric.

There are no objective signs of it being rhetoric.

[Cyberbob]

Neither were there signs of Kmd's comment being sarcastic to someone who didn't spot the connection with xvart, but it was.

I was expressing suspicion at how you might have gotten the idea that it was specifically a

cop

breadcrumb. I was not asking for you to actually show it to me.

[Iecerint]

My bad; you do allude to Jack in the form of "the page 7 about breadcrumbing." That's still a potential way of sidestepping the issue, but w/e.

It wasn't just a disagreement IMO; it was a misrepresentation. That is not what I said at all. But this was a relatively minor point, anyway.

I can tell you that I in no way want or wanted him to show me the breadcrumb.

I would love to know where the hell Jack came up with the cop-word though.

Then what's up with this?

[Jack]

Neither were there signs of Kmd's comment being sarcastic to someone who didn't spot the connection with xvart, but it was.

I was expressing suspicion at how you might have gotten the idea that it was specifically a

cop

breadcrumb. I was not asking for you to actually show it to me.

a) how does expressing suspicion = just a bit of rhetoric
b) why were you suspicious about it being a cop breadcrumb specifically? Aren't breadcrumbs usually specific? Do people breadcrumb "as yet unnamed power role"?

[Cyberbob]

a) how does expressing suspicion = just a bit of rhetoric

If you look at the actual words I said it very much looks like a request for the crumb itself. That was rhetorical.

b) why were you suspicious about it being a cop breadcrumb specifically? Aren't breadcrumbs usually specific? Do people breadcrumb "as yet unnamed power role"?

Breadcrumbs are so incredibly varied that even if I did spot one I would be extremely hesitant in 9 out of 10 cases to actually with any confidence assign a role to it. I'll grant you that this one could be more explicit in what it is doing though.

[Cyberbob]

It wasn't just a disagreement IMO; it was a misrepresentation. That is not what I said at all.

But this was a relatively minor point, anyway.

lmao

Then what's up with this?

See the first part of my last post to Jack as well as the entirety of the one before it.

[Míriel Therindë]

I'll be V/LA until Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning due to Passover. I'm going to ask LlamaFluff, my bachup Mod, to maybe throw your guys a votecount or two in the interim if he gets the chance.

[Iecerint]

The main point was the perceived OMGUS on Cobalt and Budja.

Right, the words you used look like a request for the claim itself. But then you claimed that you never wanted him to actually supply the perceived crumb. Are you saying your "I'd like to see the crumb!" statement was rhetorical? If so, what was the purpose of the rhetoric?

[Cyberbob]

The main point was the perceived OMGUS on Cobalt and Budja.

Which I have also addressed. I did say I was only going to enable your illiteracy once; I'm standing by that position.

Are you saying your "I'd like to see the crumb!" statement was rhetorical?

See above.

If so, what was the purpose of the rhetoric?

What was the purpose of all those @'s, LOL's and XD's?