Mini 950: DCI Mafia (The Results Are In...)

[Nikanor]

Nikanor here. I myself am away from home. I'll post more when I do get home, though.

[Nikanor]

1. How much experience do you have playing mafia? Please include any off site forums which you play to.
2. What would you say is your scum meta is?
3. What would you say your town meta is?
4. Someone just got quicklynched, and is town. What do you do?
5. Same situation, but quicklynched is scum.
6. Your #1 scum read got NK'ed last night, and you have no reads on anyone else, and it's LYLO. What do you do?

1. All of it.
2. I Lurk lurk lurk as scum.
3. Nikanor is amazing.
4. Rage.
5. Rage.
6. Rage.

/refuse to answer questions on the grounds I'm lazy as hell.

FOS: Nachomamma8

Vote: animorpherv.

I really don't see how that's a scum tell.

Meta ain't all that bad.

[Nikanor]

Who is opposed to an ani lynch today? I want

everyone

to weigh in on this. Failure to do so will put you at the top of my scumlist.

[Nikanor]

Oh crap, I meant to post in this game tonight. XD
I'll do so tomorrow.

[Nikanor]

I find it strange that, on page 3, you already want people to commit to something.

Nice dodge!

Unvote. Vote: kunkstar7.

Active lurking. He has done zero scumhunting in the ~10 posts he's made in this game.
Obvious scum is obvious.

[Nikanor]

ani is still a good lynch. I wonder what happened to him using the Clank account (I haven't read the rest of the topic, btw. I'm leaving for work and just posting to say I'm here).

[Nikanor]

I have an announcement to make.


Parama is scum.

Carry on.

[Nikanor]

If anyone wants reasoning, it's that Parama is being

waaaay

too confident to be town.

Anyway, I don't get why the kunkstar wagon dissolved so quickly. Anyone care to explain to me why he's town?

[Nikanor]

Nothing has changed about kunkstar being scum.

My question was obviously not directed at people still voting for kunkstar.

[Nikanor]

Unvote. Vote: ani.

I don't mind an ani lynch, and we really need to get the ball rolling.

[Nikanor]

Also, Parama has never presented how he got 3 scum reads in the first 3 pages, although he was asked many many times.

I am still very happy with an ani lynch if this is all he can come up with after the past couple pages.

[Nikanor]

Oh, and I think that if one of Parama and Slaxx are scum, it's Parama.

[Nikanor]

His answers to the questions right up front made him very suspect in my mind. It seemed he was trying to dodge any questions on his strategy to me, possibly so he couldn't be held accountable for not following his supposed "strategy" later.

Well, this is not true. Honestly, I'm getting tired with answering the same "random" questions over and over. You try playing on this site for a year with over thirty completed games and see how thoroughly you answer those same questions.

He asks this, yet never refers back to it. He provides no case on ani and doesn't refer back to whether or not people weighed in on his question and what he thought of their opinions.

I don't need a case to put pressure on people. The reason for why I asked that was for future reference. The answers were useless until I knew ani's alignment.

Failure to do so will put you at the top of my scumlist.

This was to get people to answer. I'm not stupid enough to think that not answering a question is actually a scumtell.

He then clearly bandwagons kunkstar for "active lurking and dodging". Seriously? He dodged the questions from the very beginning. At this point kunkstar has 10 posts with at least SOME quality, while Nikanor has 5 posts with nothing in them.

I pointed out that Navy had dodged a question, not kunkstar. And I'd say that my posts were of higher quality than kunk's, but that's just my ego talking.

His reasoning is that Parama is "way too over-confident to be town". This is hilarious since he has made two over-confident statements himself in saying "Parama is scum" and "Animorph is scum, I demand to know what everyone else thinks" Over-confidence is a null tell as well.

Okay, by over-confidence I mean confidence of unusual amounts. I say that stuff as town all the time, while Parama has not been this confident in any of his town games that I've read. I can provide links if you'd like.

CMAR's points on Nikanor are actually pretty good, I wasn't really paying as much attention to him but he does seem a little hypocritical.

Oh, fencesitting.
A little hypocritical? Does that mean that you find me scummy?

CMAR: Your case is made less valid because of the general atmosphere of apathy yesterday.

Nacho is mega ultra town.

CryMeARiver, why would a scum act hypocritically at this point in the game?

Why

wouldn't

a scumbag act hypocritically? More importantly, why are you defending me?

But you used it as an argument against me. Stop backtracking.

Zomg opportunistic.

Vote: Parama.

Gogo scumlynch.

[Nikanor]

How is that opportunistic? I've been saying all game that you're scum.

[Nikanor]

You mean today? I posted in that game first because I didn't have a big wall to write in that game.
I only really did modding stuff yesterday, so you can't be talking about yesterday.

You're scum because you're a) not playing to your town meta; not only that, but not playing to your town meta in a scummy way, and b) fencesitting on whether or not I am scummy. Earlier today you said, "CMAR's points on Nikanor are actually pretty good, I wasn't really paying as much attention to him but he does seem a little hypocritical," which is classic fencesitting.

[Nikanor]

My statement had nothing to do with you. In fact, I find you scummy as well. Misrepresenting me is something a scum would definitely do.

WHAT?!
Your statement was in direct response to CMAR's case on me. It had EVERYTHING to do with me and you most certainly WERE defending me!
Also, why is it that you don't think that scum would be hypocritical yet think that scum would misrepresent someone? How are those two different?

Unvote. Vote: Stethoscope.

Sccccuuuuuum.

[Nikanor]

I'm almost positive that by this statement he meant "CMAR's points on Nikanor are good. I wasn't paying a lot of attention to Nikanor, but Nikanor does seem a little hypocritical." I think you misinterpreted it as "but CMAR does seem a little hypocritical."

No, I interpreted it correctly.

Also, Nikanor, you just used a meta argument didn't you.
I think you need to die several deaths. Meta is a lie.

Show me how meta is scummy in any way and I'll stop calling you scum. At this point, though, you're trying to paint a meta attack as scummy, which is blatantly false.
So it is not I that must die, but you, scum.

Not to mention that if he wants to use meta on someone else, he is yet again being a hypocrite:

I don't care about being hypocritical.

Nikanor is very scummy. I don't see anything else. Also, this might be our last ML so I suggest we use it on a scummy target so we don't mess up if we are in lylo tomorrow.

You haven't responded to my response to your case yet. I wonder why that is. Probably because it's HORRIFICALLY WRONG.

[Nikanor]

Meta attacks aren't scummy, they're just worthless.

So now you're attacking me for something that you've admitted isn't even scummy. L.O.L. I feel a lot better about my Parama vote now, but I think I'll stay on Stethy for the time being.

[Nikanor]

I needed to elaborate. Meta attacks aren't scummy themselves; however, most uses of meta attacks are scummy. And pushing a meta attack as your biggest point against me is one of these terrible uses.

BACKTRACKING!

[Nikanor]

"Meta attacks aren't scummy"
"most uses of meta attacks are scummy."

Also, I love how you contradict yourself IN THAT POST.

Meta attacks aren't scummy themselves; however, most uses of meta attacks are scummy.

To me, this says that meta attacks aren't scummy, but that they are scummy most of the time. What exactly were you trying to say, if this is not it?

[Nikanor]

Gonna say it one last time.
The attacks themselves aren't scummy - "Meta attacks aren't scummy"
Bad uses of meta attacks are scummy - "most uses of meta attacks are scummy."

You say this like it isn't the first time you've explained it this way, when in fact it is. It sounds like you're faking annoyance to try to get me off your back.
Who do you think make more meta attacks - town or scum?

[Nikanor]

Considering that my vote on you stems more from CMAR's argument than the use of meta, I think the question is irrelevant, but I'll answer it anyways.

AND NOW YOU'RE NOT STANDING BEHIND YOUR OWN ACCUSATIONS! OBV SCUM IS OBV.

Personally I have seen more uses of meta by scum than by town but I've still seen plenty of townies use meta arguments. But the problem with meta attacks is that they fail as logical evidence.

So you agree that town uses meta, and that even the town's meta arguments are bad. So why are

my

arguments scummy for being bad?

[Nikanor]

Your attack is based on my entire meta, not specifying what parts of my town meta (which doesn't exist) that I don't seem to be following, and if you're willing to use meta you need to realize you brought up a point about your scum meta that was fitting with the early part of the day.

Parama, I told you

exactly

what was wrong. I said that your town meta wasn't this aggressive. Nice try, though.

By the way, if you're having this huge argument me, why are you leaving your vote on Stepho?

Yes! This is what I was waiting for you to say. This statement is always scum's last refuge when they're being pressured.
I don't need my vote on you to pressure you. In fact, when this argument started, I said very specifically that I was going to leave my vote on Stethy, because I wanted him to respond to me before I revoked my vote.

Meta can go die in a ditch. What do you two think of Nico?

The argument isn't about whether meta is bad or not. I'm not dumb enough to think that only scum would think that meta is bad. The point is that Parama was waffling on whether a meta attack makes someone scummy or not.

Is there some point you'd like to bring up on him?

"Zomg plz don't out my scumbuddy!"
I don't have an opinion on Nico. He's a chronic lurker regardless of alignment, unfortunately.

How are those two different? Well, "hypocritical" and "misrepresenting" are two different words that mean two completely different things. I maintain that "misrepresenting" is something that scum do, as it helps them advance cases on players whom they know to be town, but being "hypocritical" is a null-tell to me. If, for example, I am lurking (for whatever reason) as town, that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of someone else who's lurking, as I know my own motives, but cannot be sure of theirs.

Gotcha. Too bad there is no scumhunting in this post, or I would be completely satisfied.

Unvote. Vote: Parama.

Speaking of scumhunting, why is it that I'm the only one doing any right now?

[Nikanor]

Wtf. I don't think I can do that. NACHO, YOU HAVE MADE ME STOP MY TUNNELING WAYS. FOR THAT I GIVE YOU A STRAWBERRY. ENOY IT PLEASE I CANNOT EAT THEM BEcause I'm giving them all aaaaaaawaaaaaaaayyyyyy!
Also, DUH DUB DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH! (Imagine Spock vs. Kirk in a bloody arena).
I don't know who the scujm is! I'm so lost.

[Nikanor]

FUCK LURKERS!

Unvote vote Nicodemus.

[Nikanor]

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING I'M SO BAD AT SCUMHUNTING SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!!

I'm seriously lost. I don't know who ANY of the scums are. I'm just stuck perpetually pushing random people. T_T

[Nikanor]

CMAR WHERE ARE YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU?! I want to talk to you you scummy bastard.

[Nikanor]

My God. I can't believe I actually wrote that last night.
Anyway,

Unvote. Vote: kunkstar.

I've forgotten why I thought he was not scum. Even doing a quick read-through of his posts in iso doesn't give me any clues to why I thought he was not scum.
So, bandwagon ahoy.

[Nikanor]

OR the scum just noticed that nobody was going after Navy, and so killed him. This conversation isn't going to get us anywhere unless one of you can tell us that that wasn't the case.

[Nikanor]

Actually, now that I think about it, Nico is very likely to be scum. I don't see how else he's been allowed to lurk for this long.

Unvote. Vote: Nicodemus.

I'm thinking Nico+Starbuck+kunkstar. Don't ask me why. Nico is a much better lynch than the other two, though.

[Nikanor]

Not a policy lynch. PoE lynch. Big difference.
Also, lurking is not anyone's town meta.
We can always just vig him, I suppose.

[Nikanor]

If anyone wants to know why I think that is the scumteam, it is because I drunkenly wrote that in my notes last night, but I can't remember why.
I trust my drunken reasoning, though.

[Nikanor]

I don't like your apparently judging posts as to whether or not they're "scumhunting". I am scumhunting every second that I am in a game as town. Every interaction provides something else to analyze. "Anti-town" moves can often win games for town.

Scum don't scumhunt. They fakescumhunt. Therefore it's good to see who is scumhunting and who is not, because the non-scumhunters are more likely to be scum themselves.
Also, your second sentence kind of proves my point. You weren't posting, so you weren't scumhunting.

[Nikanor]

CMAR! WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE YOUR VOTE ON ME IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO RESPOND TO WHAT I'VE SAID?!
Actually,

Unvote. Vote: CMAR.

If this is what it takes to get things done around here, so be it.

[Nikanor]

I wouldn't be too unhappy with a Starbuck lynch. We need more people to weigh in on stuff, though.
You know what? I think what we really need is a quickly-built reckless bandwagon with next to no reasoning attached.

Unvote. Vote:Starbuck.

ALL ABOARD THE STARBUCK EXPRESS! ANYONE WHO HAMMERS GETS A FREE NICKEL!

[Nikanor]

Starbuck...? Why the early claim? You had two votes.

Unvote. Vote: CMAR.

[Nikanor]

Thanks for the scumday wishes! Happy belated scumday to you (I seem to always miss the cake now that I'm on sepia).

[Nikanor]

Okay I don't see why Nikanor suddenly changed after Starbuck claimed.

I was going for random bandwagons. CMAR had a bigger one.

[Nikanor]

You have three votes, CMAR.

[Nikanor]

This is a terribad answer.
Playing with new people comes going through the same routine. You dedicated time to answering the questions badly, you couldn't have taken 10 more minutes to answer them truthfully?

No, I couldn't have. Answer those questions is a waste of time.
Tell me - do you take the time to fill out 10-minute surveys handed out by people on the sidewalk? I don't.

Yes you do. You can't just accuse random people without any reasoning.
What did the answers and his alignment show you oh king?

No I don't. To quote Pierre Trudeau, "Just watch me."
And I didn't really get much from it, tbh. It would have been much more useful if ani had fipped scum.

That's not what it sounded like. Either you actually thought that or you lied, your choice.

I lied. I said that it wasn't a truth. What're going to do about it, punk?

That's even worse.
You pointed out that Navy was dodging. Then you voted kunkstar with no reasoing, but clear bandwagoning.

lern2reed, scumbag.

Unvote. Vote: kunkstar7.
Active lurking. He has done zero scumhunting in the ~10 posts he's made in this game.

What else could over confidence have meant? Still, none of this changes the fact that you were hypocritical.

Uhm, when it's changed to a

META

tell, it changes everything. I'm always this confident.

This makes no sense.

NO U.

This surprised me. Distancing your buddy? Interesting tactic.
Scum would act hypocritically because they have to lie. Town should not have to lie. Therefore scum has a better chance of being caught in their lie - hypocritical.

I can has strawman?

This is very interesting. He accuses half the player list of being scum.

Your point? Aren't you supposed to be accusing me of being overconfident?

Actually, yeah. I agree with Slaxx here. We can lynch Starbuck the "Townie" now.

Unvote. Vote: Starbuck.

[Nikanor]

For those of you asking: I unvoted Starbuck because I thought she might be fakeclaiming Townie as a power role. I've done it before, so it seemed plausible at the time.

Then I remembered that I'm probably the only one in this game who's insane enough to pull something like that.

Question: Why the hell are people claiming townie?

[Nikanor]

Actually, I'm going to claim, too.
I'm The Cadets, Townie Miller.
I'm claiming now because our beloved cop is probably going to inspect me tonight, and if we mislynch today that would be a very very bad lylo situation.
Carry on.

[Nikanor]

Nacho, your town cred can only be stretched so far~.

[Nikanor]

Nikanor (3, L-2) - CryMeARiver, Nicodemus, Nachomamma8
Starbuck (2, L-3) - Slaxx, Nikanor
CryMeARiver (2, L-3) - Stephoscope, kunkstar7
Parama (1, L-4) - Starbuck
kunkstar7 (1, L-4) - Parama

So tonight I'm going to be lynched if the votes don't change. I'm willing to act entirely in the interest of self-preservation here and vote CMAR.
Here's my reason:

That's the Colts logo. Doesn't it just SCREAM evil?

Unvote. Vote: CMAR.

[Nikanor]

Parama, why not jump on the Starbuck wagon? I'll gladly go back to that one if you do.

[Nikanor]

kunkstar, the day started on a Monday so I would assume the day also ends on a Monday.

[Nikanor]

You just said that kunkstar could be bussing. And I don't really find the prospect of forcing more claims attractive today.

[Nikanor]

My Gods, Slaxx. Coast moar?

Unvote. Vote: kunkstar7.

[Nikanor]

I swear, I'm policy lynching Nicodemus the next time I see him.
And I still don't understand why I was lynched (aside from my play, which was thoroughly crappy). D:

[Nikanor]

So Looker didn't even send in a target...
I hate when investigative roles forget to send in actions. :C

[Nikanor]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at, Slaxx.
Uh, I thought you were a vig from day two onwards. I got PR reads from you, at least. If you had fake-claimed vanilla *ahem*, I would have tried to lynch you.