Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[Drippereth]

(Side-Note: Is J someone I know? I dun recognize the name. O.o)

Pssst, Yerk, Read the sig.

Vote Count 05: Lynch

Starbuck - 1 - PaltryExcuse
Drippereth - 3 - J-Scope, Cyberbob, xvart,
Steam Powered Shovel - 1 - Starbuck
SensFan - 2 - Steam-Powered Shovel, curiouskarmadog
Kmd4390 - 1 - FeFiFoFum
FeFiFoFum - 1 - Jack
Starbuck - 1 - Cobalt
SpyreX - 1 - SocioPath
Elscouta - 2 - SpyreX, Anon,
Elmocrates - 1 - SensFan
xvart -

6

- Elmocrates, Budja, Drippereth, Kmd4390, Iecerint, farside22
Anon - 1 - Elscouta
MehPlusRawr - 1 - Papa Zito,

Not Voting (3): MehPlusRawr, ooba, xofelf

With 25 players alive it'll take 13 to lynch and 13 to no-Lynch.

There are no players in the

Halls of Mandos

, so right now there are no

Revive

or

Destroy

counts.

Today's flavor trivia is: Weirdly enough, the Russian fanbase for the

Silmarillion

is huge and intense. Where else do you get a rock opera based on parts of the book, I ask you?

[ooba]

I never knew the game started!!

vote: xvart

[Elscouta]

Comments :

- I don't get Drippereth behavior _at all_. Hydra schyzophrenia is nice, but how can (s)he at the same time say i'm scum with quite certainty and i'm scum with xvart (iso 5) but that Starbuck is my scumbuddy (iso 6). Could you explain your reasoning?
- @Ooba: Nice way to enter in the game by voting for the largest wagon. Would you care to say a bit more?
- From the people on my wagon, Anon looked like the most opportunistic, followed closely by Drippereth. Xvart is using bad logic and wrong analogies in most of his posts, but i'm not sure if it is town bad logic or scum one.

[ooba]

- @Ooba: Nice way to enter in the game by voting for the largest wagon. Would you care to say a bit more?

I entered the game - looked at the most recent post with a vote count - saw who had the most votes - looked at number of votes to lynch and realized he could use some more pressure ..

[xvart]

In your opinion people are scum automatically for saying hey scum buddy?

No, but I think people who are town are

significantly

less likely to say something like that.

If he acts scummy later then I will go on that. Not a hey scum buddy comment.

With all things being equal, if the top two scummy people (one of them being Elscouta in this example) are of equal scumminess this would have no effect on your vote?

I'm glad I now know how to get a foolproof membership card to the town club house for future games.

Someone knows how to misrepresnt the point completely, be snarky and get OMGUS all in one. Awesome you make me even more happy with my vote.

Perhaps I was a little hasty in generalizing you and Kmd. I suppose I did slightly misrepresent you as your

statement

rhetorical question was marginally softer than Kmd's; however, when someone asks "are people that dumb as scum" (post 88) I read that rhetorical question as you believe that it would be rare to find scum to do such a thing. If that was not your intention then I apologize; rhetorical questions are usually pretty easy to read the intention but I suppose I could be wrong in this instance.

Xvart is using bad logic and wrong analogies in most of his posts, but i'm not sure if it is town bad logic or scum one.

Examples?

xvart.

[xvart]

- @Ooba: Nice way to enter in the game by voting for the largest wagon. Would you care to say a bit more?

I entered the game - looked at the most recent post with a vote count - saw who had the most votes - looked at number of votes to lynch and realized he could use some more pressure ..

You realized that I needed more pressure based on the soundness of the arguments presented (which you have not read) or the lack of appropriate responses on my part (which you wouldn't know)? How do you justify your realization?

What is going to happen if you think that the wagon on me is baseless? How will you justify your vote as being anything other than opportunistic? Really though, how can you justify your vote being anything other than opportunistic even if you do agree with the wagon?

xvart.

[farside22]

I never equate scum = dumb. If they did scum hunting would be so easy everyone would stop playing. You can take it as an insult, being rhetorical or just not liking my style but I have yet to be proven wrong.

No, but I think people who are town are significantly less likely to say something like that.

Welcome to MS where people say/do or act in certain ways that are most of the times misleading during RVS and yes on purpose. That was not the case here but it happens.

With all things being equal, if the top two scummy people (one of them being Elscouta in this example) are of equal scumminess this would have no effect on your vote?

I don't see Elscouta as scummy right now so the point in this is what?
My scum scope likes you right now. Now if I saw X player and Y player be equally scummy I would call them both out and vote one and question both to death. I'm quiet annoying that way.

[xofelf]

@Sens: I'm sorry, but i really don't see how the reasons you have given justify why you play that way?

But whoever it was that said i was focusing too much on play is right. I probably am. Except in the past games i've played with them, both Sens and KMD the way they play each game more often than not reveals their role. They react differently to the exact same thing depending on their alignment that game. That would be why i was asking about it so early on. Even the way they react to the questions posed to them does more than they think on reads. And that is all i'm going to say at this time about that.

Now if I saw X player and Y player be equally scummy I would call them both out and vote one and question both to death. I'm quiet annoying that way.

And that is why you're one of my favourite people to play with, and you usually do so well.

[farside22]

And that is why you're one of my favourite people to play with, and you usually do so well.

Here I thought I annoyed most, frustrated others and made scum put their heads between their legs in hopes I might not notice.

[ooba]

- @Ooba: Nice way to enter in the game by voting for the largest wagon. Would you care to say a bit more?

I entered the game - looked at the most recent post with a vote count - saw who had the most votes - looked at number of votes to lynch and realized he could use some more pressure ..

You realized that I needed more pressure based on the soundness of the arguments presented (which you have not read) or the lack of appropriate responses on my part (which you wouldn't know)? How do you justify your realization?

6 pages into a large themed game .. An early band wagon .. early band wagons are most useful when you take the person close to lynch and see if it makes them over defensive or act strange .. (of course, by saying that I destroyed whatever purpose my vote might have served - but you asked)

What is going to happen if you think that the wagon on me is baseless? How will you justify your vote as being anything other than opportunistic? Really though, how can you justify your vote being anything other than opportunistic even if you do agree with the wagon?

I'll shift my vote to the person who I think is the scummiest. Opportunistic is when you see the wagon going to lynch and you just want to hop on - I do not see an early Page 6 D1 lynch here so opportunism does not arise here..

[xvart]

I don't see Elscouta as scummy right now so the point in this is what?

I was just a simple hypothetical question, trying to gauge if someone claiming scum on the first day has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your "scum scope."

I'm quiet annoying that way.

I don't find you annoying at all.

xvart.

[Budja]

@KMD,

You are voting on the largest wagon with no other text in you post. Elaborate, otherwise this is scummy.

Wagons are good.
---
Dislike SPS still sticking to Sens wagon without further comment on events.
---
Pressure on Starbuck was good.
Her response was ok.
---
RVS debate re. Sens is irrelevant IMO.
---
Still don't like xvart. exaggerates and misreps (dumbs down is perhaps a better word here, IIRC farside said generalises a few pages back and thats a good word too) arguments.
---

[Iecerint]

1. What pressure on Starbuck are you talking about? Drip's 2-line-post that SB was scumfriends with Els that s/he quickly took back when I alluded to Twilight?

2.What response of hers are you talking about? Her claim that my explanation for her would-be scummy behavior didn't make sense?

[SensFan]

But whoever it was that said i was focusing too much on play is right. I probably am. Except in the past games i've played with them, both Sens and KMD the way they play each game more often than not reveals their role. They react differently to the exact same thing depending on their alignment that game. That would be why i was asking about it so early on. Even the way they react to the questions posed to them does more than they think on reads. And that is all i'm going to say at this time about that.

I'm going to call bullshit on this. I've talked with very good players who have played (and read) multpile games of mine, and all of them have told me I don't have any meta tells. More importantly, I just checked every single game I've played on this site and not been replaced in; xofelf was in only 2 of those. I was Town in one of them, and killed N0 in the other (also as Town).

So yeah, no way I buy that someone of xofelf's experience has any meta tells on me.

Unvote, Vote: xofelf

[Budja]

I guess I ought to be more specific. That was more a run down of my thoughts that a very coherent post.

post 103 last paragraph inc. quote is what I meant. The whole meta debate wasn't very important in my eyes.

[Elmocrates]

All of these players check out with regard to posting patterns except ooba. IGMEOY: ooba

Interesting. Elaborate, please?

---

There's nothing in signing your name at the bottom of each post that's inherently town, either - that's obviously not sufficient to suspect someone. It has to be, you know, actually suspicious. Do you find it suspicious?

Nice analogy. So you are saying that claiming scumbuddies has as much inherent significance as saying your name to each post? You are suggesting that claiming scumbuddies is as anti-town/scummy as signing each post? Are you saying that people should be just as suspicious of me for signing each post as I am for suspecting someone that claims scumbuddies?!

Way to not answer the question. Unsurprisingly, I'm saying exactly what you quoted me as saying. Look:

xvart: Why do you think scum are more likely to joke about being scum?

I don't see any thing in claiming scum/scumbuddies to be inherently town. I don't have any statistics to back anything up, but the WIFOM makes me sick just thinking about it.

So apparently you suspect him because he did something that isn't inherently town. That's a crappy reason to suspect someone, because some things that aren't inherently town (like signing your name) are obviously not suspicious. I asked you to explain to me why you found it suspicious, and you haven't done that. Please do so.

So you are saying that claiming scumbuddies has as much inherent significance as saying your name to each post?

No. You can tell I'm not saying this because I didn't say it.

You are suggesting that claiming scumbuddies is as anti-town/scummy as signing each post?

No. You can tell I'm not suggesting this because I didn't suggest it.

Are you saying that people should be just as suspicious of me for signing each post as I am for suspecting someone that claims scumbuddies?!

No. You can tell I'm not saying this because I didn't say it. Please just answer the very simple question that I asked you.

I'm talking about someone saying "I'm scumbuddies" in the first post, and then being defended by "He can't possibly be scum, why would scum do something stupid like that."

Please name the people who have said that he can't possibly be scum.

What's the point of comparing those two things (signing your name, and claiming scumbuddies, I mean they're not at all similar)

You've just quoted my point. They are exactly identical in the property I stated: they're not inherently town. Suspecting someone on the basis they performed an action with that property is nonsensical. Which is the point.

---

I've talked with very good players who have played (and read) multpile games of mine, and all of them have told me I don't have any meta tells.

Please list them.

Elmo

[SensFan]

I've talked with very good players who have played (and read) multpile games of mine, and all of them have told me I don't have any meta tells.

Please list them.

Yaw and Cow for sure. I'm pretty sure I also talked to Khelv about it, and I think KMD told me he couldn't come up with any meta tells on me, either.

[Iecerint]

I used this to check whether there was evidence that some of the late-to-confirm players might have intentionally delayed their confirm (e.g. to extend pre-game talk). If players posted elsewhere on the site after I got my role PM without /confirming, that would be evidence that they might be deliberately putting off the /confirm.

The players who weren't ooba posted in the morning, but then not until 6 PM or so that night, which reasonably fits with their delayed /confirm. ooba kept posting all over the place, so that didn't fit. He posted earlier today and indicated that he hadn't realize the game had started, which may explain his situation.

I like x more than ooba atm. I'd like ooba to catch up quickly, though.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Dislike SPS still sticking to Sens wagon without further comment on events.

As far as I can tell, all that's happened so far is that xvart and Drippereth (naturally) have things which are wrong and misguided, which is pretty meaningless when it comes to determining alignments. The most relevant thing I've seen so far is Starbuck asking Iecerint to drop it three times in a row.

I feel like wagonning, but all the wagons are dumb.

[FeFiFoFum]

I feel like wagonning, but all the wagons are dumb.

Agree to disagree the current bandwagon is good, but not great.

vote xvart

[Anon]

Anon's 6 page catchup post, now with moar non rvs scumhuting!

SCUMZ
xvart
elscouta
steam powered
prob cyberbob, prob zito, prob elvis.

Vote: xvart.

also elmocrates should definitely get a freaking avatar.

[Drippereth]

Anon!
I agree with most of those, but methinks Elvis isn't in this game.

[Anon]

Anon!
I agree with most of those, but methinks Elvis isn't in this game.

lol, that would explain why she was lurking.

[Elmocrates]

And that is all i'm going to say at this time about that.

Why? I'm not sure how you're going to get people to vote with you. What happens if you're right, get nightkilled, and then no-one can make a case?

Yaw and Cow for sure. I'm pretty sure I also talked to Khelv about it, and I think KMD told me he couldn't come up with any meta tells on me, either.

I'd think not being able to come up with any is a bit different from asserting you don't have any. Who explicitly said which?

I'm not sure how you're eliminating the possibility that xofelf's mistaken. If you don't have any meta tells, there are good odds people will be fooled by randomness.

also elmocrates should definitely get a freaking avatar.

Unfortunately this. I'll go look...

Elmo

[SensFan]

Yaw and Cow for sure. I'm pretty sure I also talked to Khelv about it, and I think KMD told me he couldn't come up with any meta tells on me, either.

I'd think not being able to come up with any is a bit different from asserting you don't have any. Who explicitly said which?

I'm not sure how you're eliminating the possibility that xofelf's mistaken. If you don't have any meta tells, there are good odds people will be fooled by randomness.

I talked to Yaw and Cow a while back about if they could detect any meta-tells, since they're both players who are very good, and who I know fairly well. Khelv I don't remember the context. KMD, if memory serves, was jokingly complaining that he couldn't find any meta tells.

None of that is particularily relevant, though, since xofelf has never seen a completed game that involved me as Scum. And she's only seen me as Town once. I discounted the possibility that she's just remembering wrong since I know her very well on a personal level.