Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Jahudo]

I'm confused. How do I get a wagon placement of 12 or 15?

[VP Baltar]

He went upstairs to loot the president's office, and I went down those long marble steps, once again, to where my Jeep was parked in front of a fireplug on the street. Hot damn! I thought. This will be a very fast day....

It was still raining. There was no other sound on the street. Only rain in the elm trees and the fast lazy slap of my brand-new white low-cut Chuck Taylor All-Stars on the sidewalk. I felt like a polar bear, and I wanted to hear some music.

---

Vote Count 1-20

:

Jack ~ L-3 (Zachrulez, Sotty7, Cobalt, Locke Lamora)

Cobalt ~ L-3 (Vi, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Jack, Jahudo)
hohum ~ L-5 (Percy, ekiM)
Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)

Not Voting: hohum

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is April 3 at roughly 3 p.m. (GMT -4).

[Jack]

What the bejeesus was that?

[Vi]

I'm confused. How do I get a wagon placement of 12 or 15?

kyle99

xRx (23) - third
flinter (133) - fifth

Jahudo

Jack (406) - fourth
ortolan (457, failed) - third

3 + 5 + 4 = 12 from three votes
3 + 5 + 4 + 3 = 15 from four votes

[Vi]

What the bejeesus was that?

Keep bussing for now. I'll explain later.

[Jahudo]

Ah, so jumping on a wagon late + not being on many wagons = possibly suspicious?
And starting wagons + being on alot of wagons = possibly pro-active pro-town?

I can see the theory behind it but there's variables to consider. vote hopping may be opportunistic in some situations. random vote stage votes don't carry as much weight as votes right now.

[Vi]

Ah, so jumping on a wagon late + not being on many wagons = possibly suspicious?
And starting wagons + being on alot of wagons = possibly pro-active pro-town?

I can see the theory behind it but there's variables to consider. vote hopping may be opportunistic in some situations. random vote stage votes don't carry as much weight as votes right now.

Anyone you want to defend with that?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD lynch = ortolan/Cobalt lynch > Jack lynch

That's how I feel, but I'd lynch any of them.

Vote: DDD

.

Deadline's in two days and Ortolan looks more viable at this point than DDD... so why DDD over Ortolan?

Dude, it's obvious that with two days until an already extended deadline you cast a vote for someone whose wagon has less support than the previously mocked Locke wagon when you've listed another wagon with actual support as equal to that ESPECIALLY when you lack the time and will to actually push for the nonexistant wagon of your choice. Duh.

I seriously hope someone kills him tonight; scum, third-party, town-aligned, whoever, just someone make him dead.

[xRECKONERx]

lol ddd

fuck off

[ekiM]

I'm baffled by 498.

[ekiM]

I (still) believe all of ekiM's points are utter horseradish contrived to push a hohum lynch, to give a particular example because of what LL said in 485. BloodCovenent DID give warning+AtE before replacing out in the linked game; flinter did not.

This is just false. BC gave no warning before replacing out. For the second time: have you read the linked content hohum provided?

I'd also like to know why you said: "The point about ignoring flinter is kind of not based in reality, because from where I'm sitting flinter replaced out just after hohum quasi-flamed her. You call that ignorance?". Do you agree that that was a non sequitur?

If my points are so bad, you should be able to rebut them accurately and cogently with little effort. You have not done so.

The case is so bad and so positioned that it's blatantly scummy on the level of play that I know ekiM plays at (he was on the invitation list for the F&E game I just got out of IIRC).

Are you saying I'm using a case that I know is terrible, or that I'm so blinded by being scum that I can't see that it's terrible? Neither makes much sense.

Incidentally, these players have agreed with some or all of the hohum points: ekiM, Jack, Jahudo, Percy, sotty, xReckonerx, Zach. Must be one of them scum-majority games.

[Locke Lamora]

Reckoner: DDD wagon is not happening. If you favour the Cobalt lynch, vote for Cobalt. A DDD vote means precisely nothing this close to deadline. You also make one catchup post, complain that no-one has asked you questions, then when Zach does, you ignore him. Did you have a small window where you were going to pretend to be pro-town but everyone missed it?

[Sotty7]

Jahudo do you think Ort and Vi are scum together?

Wagons I am interested in: Jack, Colbat, Locke

Jack still because of the flinter scumminess.
Colbat because of Ortlan's vote on Hohum after being goaded only to abandon it ASAP after. Also his attacks with Vi hold no weight making it personal for no reason.
Locke mostly I feel like his lurking is tactical. No one mentions him he filters away in the background. People call him out he posts.

Reck, I think your push on Zach was scummy but that was so long ago now and a lot of stuff has happened. You seemed to have some what caught up now but I was willing to lynch you mainly for your lack of effort in this game. I don't know if you are scum or not, you need to post moar.

I'm baffled by 498.

This.

I'm going to go ahead and;

Unvote, Vote: Cobalt

I am seeing a lot more support for a Cobalt lynch than a Jack lynch and my vote breaks the tie and puts Cobalt at lynch -2. But I am willing to switch to any of the three wagons at this point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

lol ddd

fuck off

That was about as well thought out as your vote on me, kudos.

~~~

I understand 498, I just know Vi is willing to put in that much effort as scum as well as town and from the one game where she pulled out those numbers there was no significant trend to be found in them. So while it's interesting I'm not sure it's useful at all.

[Vi]

I (still) believe all of ekiM's points are utter horseradish contrived to push a hohum lynch, to give a particular example because of what LL said in 485. BloodCovenent DID give warning+AtE before replacing out in the linked game; flinter did not.

This is just false. BC gave no warning before replacing out. For the second time: have you read the linked content hohum provided?

So he requested replacement and threw an AtE in on the way out. Aside from the silliness of the order mattering, I'm reasonably sure the emphasis was more on the emo than the actual quitting. I can only be reasonably sure because I'm arguing for hohum, which isn't a position I particularly like being in but etc..

I'd also like to know why you said: "The point about ignoring flinter is kind of not based in reality, because from where I'm sitting flinter replaced out just after hohum quasi-flamed her. You call that ignorance?". Do you agree that that was a non sequitur?

From your perspective where "ignoring flinter" was directly related to her replacement, it would be a

non sequitur

, yes.

...actually, this case isn't that bad. Most of the mis/understandings come from hohum being ambiguous.
Well now that killed the euphoria from this morning.

The case is so bad and so positioned that it's blatantly scummy on the level of play that I know ekiM plays at (he was on the invitation list for the F&E game I just got out of IIRC).

Are you saying I'm using a case that I know is terrible, or that I'm so blinded by being scum that I can't see that it's terrible? Neither makes much sense.

The former, for reference.

---

I seriously hope someone kills

[xRx]

tonight; scum, third-party, town-aligned, whoever, just someone make him dead.

A vig would have plenty of business in this game.

[Vi]

I understand 498, I just know Vi is willing to put in that much effort as scum as well as town and from the one game where she pulled out those numbers there was no significant trend to be found in them. So while it's interesting I'm not sure it's useful at all.

It's not effort really.
But ignoring that, I waited to use that in F&E until I knew it would be in my advantage.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I understand 498, I just know Vi is willing to put in that much effort as scum as well as town and from the one game where she pulled out those numbers there was no significant trend to be found in them. So while it's interesting I'm not sure it's useful at all.

It's not effort really.
But ignoring that, I waited to use that in F&E until I knew it would be in my advantage.

Certainly to be considered. Last night I got bored and ran the numbers myself for D1 of F&E to see if there was an actual trend and the scum spots on the list were 1, T3 (with two other players), and T10 (with one other player); not exactly a significant trend one way or another. So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo do you think Ort and Vi are scum together?

Technically Vi is never scum. She just something has a bastardized town role where she wins with the scum.

But my gut would say no based on the personal attacks, though I haven't looked at the other games they were referring to.

[ekiM]

I (still) believe all of ekiM's points are utter horseradish contrived to push a hohum lynch, to give a particular example because of what LL said in 485. BloodCovenent DID give warning+AtE before replacing out in the linked game; flinter did not.

This is just false. BC gave no warning before replacing out. For the second time: have you read the linked content hohum provided?

So he requested replacement and threw an AtE in on the way out. Aside from the silliness of the order mattering, I'm reasonably sure the emphasis was more on the emo than the actual quitting. I can only be reasonably sure because I'm arguing for hohum, which isn't a position I particularly like being in but etc..

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

flinter was emo, also.

It would be good if hohum could get in here before deadline. That's about twenty four hours.

I'd also like to know why you said: "The point about ignoring flinter is kind of not based in reality, because from where I'm sitting flinter replaced out just after hohum quasi-flamed her. You call that ignorance?". Do you agree that that was a non sequitur?

From your perspective where "ignoring flinter" was directly related to her replacement, it would be a

non sequitur

, yes.

...actually, this case isn't that bad. Most of the mis/understandings come from hohum being ambiguous.

Well now that killed the euphoria from this morning.

[ekiM]

Wait, horseradish is delicious.

[xRECKONERx]

"Hi! I'm DDD, and I act like an arrogant pompous twat for no fucking reason whatsoever!"

In any case, given the points: DDD-lynch is preferable to simply make him dead because he's awful, but since that's obviously not happening, I'll

Unvote; Vote: Cobalt

[ekiM]

L-1

[Vi]

So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

Ja, I hope I'm not entirely wrong with those numbers. (I don't think I am though)
I'd really like to ask the person who gave me the idea to try that kind of stuff for advice on how to make it more effective, but suffice to say he's indisposed at the present year.

Also, it works better against inexperienced scum... and scum who don't already know that kind of attack is coming~

--

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

I disagree but etc.
Out of perhaps-relevant curiosity, which (if either) do you consider the greater scumtell between actually replacing out and whining about replacing out?
My opinion is colored by this game (ISO muffinhead-scum starting at post #12)

---

"Hi! I'm DDD, and I act like an arrogant pompous twat for no fucking reason whatsoever!"

In any case, given the points: DDD-lynch is preferable to simply make him dead because he's awful, but since that's obviously not happening,

You'll even win at IRONY!

[ekiM]

So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

Ja, I hope I'm not entirely wrong with those numbers. (I don't think I am though)
I'd really like to ask the person who gave me the idea to try that kind of stuff for advice on how to make it more effective, but suffice to say he's indisposed at the present year.

Also, it works better against inexperienced scum... and scum who don't already know that kind of attack is coming~

Why did you bust it out at this point? Nothing seems to have come of it and introducing it to the thread has compromised any future use of it in this game.

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

I disagree but etc.

What do you disagree with? This is what I'm having trouble with. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that xRx has behaved more like BC than flinter did?

Out of perhaps-relevant curiosity, which (if either) do you consider the greater scumtell between actually replacing out and whining about replacing out?

?! Rec

didn't threaten to replace out

. He said "lynch me, I'm bored". It's like I'm reading a different thread.

For the sake of completeness, the latter.

[Vi]

So maybe you have the experience that you feel comfortable using the information to make some sort of generalization, but looking at that game it's impossible for me to see a trend; hence interesting not useful.

Ja, I hope I'm not entirely wrong with those numbers. (I don't think I am though)
I'd really like to ask the person who gave me the idea to try that kind of stuff for advice on how to make it more effective, but suffice to say he's indisposed at the present year.

Also, it works better against inexperienced scum... and scum who don't already know that kind of attack is coming~

Why did you bust it out at this point? Nothing seems to have come of it and introducing it to the thread has compromised any future use of it in this game.

Because I wanted to show why the people I wanted to vote were objectively more worthy of suspicion. That others have set it aside isn't something I can help. And it would have had more impact if I hadn't 180d on one of my reads in my next post.

I still think it's a halfway decent substitute for the traditional Town/scum tier list, at least for my opinion. Not in perfect order, of course.

The order matters because threatening to quit and actually quitting are different things. Actually quitting is more similar to actually quitting than threatening to quit is. I don't know how many ways I can re-state this without stumbling across the wording that makes me comprehensible.

I disagree but etc.

What do you disagree with? This is what I'm having trouble with. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that xRx has behaved more like BC than flinter did?

As I showed you in my previous post, I think the whining is more telling than actually replacing out.

However, if flinter had made a hatepost on the way out, it would have been very much like what BC did so etc.

Out of perhaps-relevant curiosity, which (if either) do you consider the greater scumtell between actually replacing out and whining about replacing out?

?! Rec

didn't threaten to replace out

. He said "lynch me, I'm bored". It's like I'm reading a different thread.

For the sake of completeness, the latter.

It was meant to be a theoretical question so I could see where you stood on the issue. I didn't have xRx in mind when asking this (although later he DID whine about not wanting to replace out )

Okay so I'll try to find my way out of Bizarro World now.