Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Vi]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

I don't remember if he's done it before. I was commenting on the irony of him saying his vote was locked before going on V/LA.

I agree that I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

while still listing two other suspects

. That IMO is the strongest point against him.

I don't think that happened. When did hohum go on V/LA, and when did he say his vote was locked on? All I can find is you asking if his vote was "locked on", and he said yes.

hohum reported in wounded here, and I'm not going to hold that against him. I was simply pointing out irony.

hohum's (IIRC) last three posts in isolation - saying "yes my vote is locked onto xRx" "By the way I still want Percy to die" "In fact I would rather be voting flinter, Percy, and xRx at the same time" - seem to contradict, unless hohum has a different idea of "locked on" than everyone else.

[VP Baltar]

"We are going to Court, Andrew. We are champions! We will crush them like cheap roaches! TODAY'S PIG IS TOMORROW'S BACON!"

I spun suddenly and hurled my green beer bottle so fast across the room that it exploded against the wall like a glass bomb before he even saw it happen.

BANG!

Whirling like Quisenberry and catching a runner on the nod at second....Fantastic speed and accuracy, no reason at all, but Andrew went crazy with joy and I had to subdue him physically and give him a chance to calm down. It was almost dawn.

"Where are the telephones?"

I asked him.

"Where is a fax machine? We will kill the ones who eat us, and eat the ones we kill!"

---

Vote Count 1-17

:

Jack ~ L-3 (Zachrulez, Sotty7, ortolan, Jahudo)

hohum ~ L-3 (Percy, Jack, ekiM, xRECKONERx)
xRECKONERx ~ L-5 (hohum, Locke Lamora)
ortolan ~ L-5 (Vi, Debonair Danny DiPietro)

Not Voting:

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is March 31 at roughly 3 p.m. (GMT -4).

[Jahudo]

I still don't think you're explaining what happened.

You brought up "locked on" before he brought up "vote final". Right? So its possible he wouldn't have said final under your definition of a final vote (declaring you will not change your vote to the public) on his own, but continued to play under his definition (feeling most confident but not having to say you're not going to change your vote). Since you brought it up, I'm suspicious of you now using it against him when I think he's still acting like town under his perspective and yours.

I'd like to lynch jack but xReck is a better choice for today. Percy needs to go as well.

That is not a contradiction from making a vote final. He's saying reck is still his top suspect, and jack/percy are for later days. The confidence of finding reck most suspicious is still there.

It also looks like you're misrepresenting him here:

In fact I would rather be voting flinter, Percy, and xRx at the same time"

He's not saying they are even on the scum scale, because he said reck was the better choice today. He's saying if he had 3 votes, he'd lynch all three. Like if we were playing reverberation, he'd want a multi-purge.

I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

This is just a disagreement on a tell I guess. I think scum would want to keep their options open longer, but town feeling really confident in a wagon are owning up to it more.

I'll still look at ortolan seriously, but Vi is bumping up my suspect list quick. 1. Jack 2. Locke 3. Vi and DDD is not a suspect anymore.

[Percy]

Goddamn it, lost my entire post. FUCK YOU FIREFOX GODDAMN FUCK

I'm too tired and drunk to write it again. Here's the short version.

I think ortolan's replacing out was a dick move, but I'll be very suspicious of anyone calling his replacing out a scumtell.

However, I think his votes have been poorly reasoned for most of the game, and I see a lot of opportunism in his play. Willing to lynch.

Hope you get better soon hohum.

I recognise that there is tilt and tunnelling in my case against hohum, but I still think it's the best case I've seen today. Right now I can't make up my mind between hohum and ortolan and xRx.

Yep, xRx is still up there for me. He was scummy at the start of the day, got the heat taken off him after he threatened to replace out, and his contributions to today have been poor. If everyone is willing to split the difference and kill xRx, I'm still up for it.

Also,

Seriously, people who sign up for awesome games and replace out SUCK. If you're not enjoying yourself, at least try to learn something rather than ruining the game for the rest of us with your ragequitting. For the people who replace into games, you're awesome and I love you.

I will be online near deadline, and I'll make a more coherent post then and place my final vote (if vote-moving is required) with my reasons (if I change it) then.

[Vi]

Jahudo: When I say "locked on" I mean final. And when I say "final" I mean "choo choo call me back when you lynch this person; I'm not moving my vote". I can understand if that wasn't clear.
With that in mind, why would hohum say that about xRx over the two other people he called out as suspicious? Yes, xRx was scummiest at the time, but to come out and say that nothing the others would do would put them over him is more than a bit presumptuous.

Ignoring that I was paraphrasing hohum from memory I'm not sure how

In fact I would rather be voting flinter, Percy, and xRx at the same time"

is a misrep of

I've only got one vote. If I could vote all 3 of them I would.

This is just a disagreement on a tell I guess. I think scum would want to keep their options open longer, but town feeling really confident in a wagon are owning up to it more.

I believe scum are more likely to fake final confidence.

Vi is bumping up my suspect list quick.

Just briefly, why?

[Jahudo]

Vi, it looked like your paraphrasing implied that hohum was equally suspicious of flinter, percy and recks. Yes, "at the same time" could mean "if I had multiple votes", but you're still arguing that hohum could possibly move his suspicions of flinter and percy up after his vote became final. But his other posts explain why he wasn't going to do that.

I'm not sure how flinter could become more suspicious to hohum, since he had already replaced out before hohum made his vote final.

And I'm not sure how Percy could become more suspicious to hohum, since hohum said he would specifically deal with Percy the next day before hohum made his vote final.

I'm suspicious of you for misrepresenting hohum. That's all for now.

[Vi]

Vi, it looked like your paraphrasing implied that hohum was equally suspicious of flinter, percy and recks. Yes, "at the same time" could mean "if I had multiple votes", but you're still arguing that hohum could possibly move his suspicions of flinter and percy up after his vote became final. But his other posts explain why he wasn't going to do that.

I'm not sure how flinter could become more suspicious to hohum, since he had already replaced out before hohum made his vote final.

And I'm not sure how Percy could become more suspicious to hohum, since hohum said he would specifically deal with Percy the next day before hohum made his vote final.

There's this thing called "changing your mind" that people occasionally try. Saying your vote is final means that you have zero plans to do so, which is something seldom seen and more often done by scum.

I'm suspicious of you for misrepresenting hohum. That's all for now.

'Must be some pretty impressive suspicion if I wound up bumped to third place...

I've got under two hours left and the only people who are getting lynched at this juncture are Jack and hohum. Neither of them are top choices for me, but I get the impression that whoever I vote for will be the person getting lynched considering that the wagons are tied at the moment. I'll think about it.

[Zachrulez]

You guys should read post 423 again.

[Vi]

You guys should read post 423 again.

But unless it happens liek soon, I'm not going to know whether he will extend the deadline or not before I leave.

So let's try this.

Mod: Deadline extension plz

[Zachrulez]

The way I read it sounded like he extended the deadline in that post.

Did I read it wrong?

[Vi]

Let's not bring past drama into this thread. I'm going to discuss it with ortolan and

if

he wants to replace out still, I will be extending the deadline to Friday.

I will update everyone soon.

[Zachrulez]

Ok I did read it wrong.

Also, I will point out that Locke is lurking, inexcusably so, and unlike most of our other players who are less active than we'd like, he doesn't have a real excuse.

[Locke Lamora]

Zach: what's a 'real excuse', exactly?

So, in terms of the viable wagons:

I really don't see why hohum saying his vote is locked on and still having other suspects is a tell at all. He wants Reck lynched but he also suspects other people. The fact that people are pushing his wagon based on reasons like this is enough to convince me he's not a good lynch.

I also really don't see the ortolan case. I agree with his earlier point about Reckoner's style as town and I don't think he's been lurking a great deal either. His frustration reads as annoyed townie to me.

Nothing about Jack jumps out at me as particularly scummy; it's flinter I'm bothered about. Her insistence that ekiM was somehow pro-town for asking about the rules did not strike me as rigorous scumhunting and her whole approach to the game appeared to be based around the idea that other people were 'nitpicking' on mistakes instead of properly looking for scum. This seemed to be more a focus of her approach than scumhunting itself. I'd much rather lynch this slot than hohum's, so:

Unvote; Vote: Jack

[Sotty7]

*Sigh*

Still very much willing to lynch Jack, Reck and Ort. This are my top three picks.

Second the deadline extension request

[Zachrulez]

Anything that would explain why you went all that time you did without posting any follow up in the face of the deadline. (In fact you just came off a V/LA that ended on Monday)

[Zachrulez]

How do you feel about Locke now Sotty?

[Jahudo]

Saying your vote is final means that you have zero plans to do so, which is something seldom seen and more often done by scum.

You've seen that more often done by scum? I'm not sure I've ever seen it actually, but I like empirical data. Lacking that, I just feel like its a bad play for scum to make.

If scum make a final vote on a town wagon that gets to a lynch, the next day that scum is open to every suspicion going along with his decision. Like, "this guy was also your suspect and look what he did near deadline! Die scum die!"

If scum makes a final vote on a town wagon when a competing wagon is on scum that gets to a lynched, the next day town will wonder why someone was no way going on the scum wagon. Scum will be under suspicion.

If scum makes a final vote on a wagon that doesn't go to a lynch, and town is lynched somewhere else they're open to the suspicion that they're vote was being wasted on a wagon that wouldn't go anywhere. They effectively disowned the lynch wagon.

If scum makes a final vote on a scum wagon, well that's just pretty pro-town actually

----------------------------

Also everyone is aware of this right?

4) If a day ends at the full deadline and a majority has not been reached, no lynch will take place.

[Locke Lamora]

I can provide reasons if you like. Is that relevant to my alignment?

[Zachrulez]

You could give a reason as to why you never followed up on your inquiry to me regarding Sotty's meta.

[VP Baltar]

Searching for ortolan's replacement due to lack of reply to my PM. Deadline is now extended until April 2 at roughly 3 p.m. (GMT-4).

[Locke Lamora]

I was dealing with the more pressing matter of putting my vote somewhere before the deadline. The interaction between you and Sotty was something that caught my attention but was not particularly relevant to where I put my vote today.

In any event, it seems we have more time. Reading your response, my question to you is why is it just a nagging concern rather than something more worrying? If this departs from how town-Sotty treats you, what about her play makes you hesitate to think she's scum?

[Vi]

Saying your vote is final means that you have zero plans to do so, which is something seldom seen and more often done by scum.

You've seen that more often done by scum? I'm not sure I've ever seen it actually, but I like empirical data. Lacking that, I just feel like its a bad play for scum to make.

If scum make a final vote on a town wagon that gets to a lynch, the next day that scum is open to every suspicion going along with his decision. Like, "this guy was also your suspect and look what he did near deadline! Die scum die!"

If scum makes a final vote on a town wagon when a competing wagon is on scum that gets to a lynched, the next day town will wonder why someone was no way going on the scum wagon. Scum will be under suspicion.

If scum makes a final vote on a wagon that doesn't go to a lynch, and town is lynched somewhere else they're open to the suspicion that they're vote was being wasted on a wagon that wouldn't go anywhere. They effectively disowned the lynch wagon.

If scum makes a final vote on a scum wagon, well that's just pretty pro-town actually

I'd love to have DDD lecture you on this.

1) doesn't really happen in practice all that often, unless I'm being delusional again.
On the other hand, scum have the benefit of being able to justify sticking to a Town wagon while maintaining a very closed view of the game.

2) is granted.

3) rarely happens at all unless the person who got lynched was obvscum and there's no blame for being on that lynching wagon.

4) etc.

I'm pretty sure everyone was already aware of No Lynch at deadline; did you have any doubt?

---

I don't necessarily hate LL 437 except for how his reasons for voting flinter are about as bad as the ones he says are being put onto hohum.
Plus, why do you like ortolan's meta point on xRx?

[Locke Lamora]

Vi: because that's exactly what I thought about Reckoner. When I played with town-Reck, he never expressed a desire to give up despite being wagoned to claiming on D1. His 'lynch me' post was a clear departure from that and I immediately thought exactly what ortolan did.

[Zachrulez]

I was dealing with the more pressing matter of putting my vote somewhere before the deadline. The interaction between you and Sotty was something that caught my attention but was not particularly relevant to where I put my vote today.

In any event, it seems we have more time. Reading your response, my question to you is why is it just a nagging concern rather than something more worrying? If this departs from how town-Sotty treats you, what about her play makes you hesitate to think she's scum?

Mainly because she uses different tactics against me as scum which are heavily dependent on the situation.

Also the patterns I've noticed come from games where I've started to develop an awareness of said pattern. As I become aware of the patterns, she becomes aware of my awareness to the patterns (Thus we go in circles with the question of how she might change her approach to me as hypo scum.)

It's not something I'm confident enough to say is definitively scummy.

[Sotty7]

How do you feel about Locke now Sotty?

I don't like him. As soon as I gave him the benefit of the doubt and went after flinter he just lurked. His catch up posts aren't very moving. I think he is scummy he has just lurked his way down my list which in itself isn't a good thing.