Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[ekiM]

Assuming three scum who don't bus at the wire, getting a scum lynch requires seven of nine townies to come to consensus. That's tricky.

The non-hohum people against a hohum lynch:

DDD

- Has never mentioned hohum or his wagon. Still ignoring it.

Locke

- "I'm reading hohum as town." Uh huh. Why? What's your opinion on the points made against him.

Sotty

- Agrees with or ignored the strongest points as hohum, doesn't list him as a potential lynch.

Jahudo

(kyle) - kyle never mentioned hohum. hohum mentioned kyle once in passing. In his analysis of hohum he ignores all the strongest points against hohum.

I could easily see two of those being scumbuddies trying to steer away. I'm gung-ho for a hohum lynch now.

[ekiM]

7
Hohum - ekiM, Jack, ortolan, Percy, Vi, xRx, Zach(3rd choice)

5
xRECKONERx - DDD, hohum, Percy, Sotty, Locke

4
Jack(flinter) - Jahudo, ortolan, Sotty, zach
Locke Lamora - Jahudo, ekiM, Vi, Sotty
Ortolan - ekiM, Jack, Vi, Sotty

3
Debonair Danny DiPietro - ekiM, Jahudo, zach
Sotty7 - Locke(?), Vi, xRx
Vi - Jack(?), Locke, ortolan

---

Oh thanks for the heads-up DDD, I think that's sorted now.

Now, what do you think of the points against hohum?

Why have you not mentioned hohum or his wagon at any point today?

[ekiM]

Mod: Any chance of a prod on xReckonerx? He really needs to come to this thread before deadline...

Ask and you shall receive. Prodding now. ~The mod

xReckonerx - if you get here at any point... your vote is on a non-viable wagon right now. At a minimum please move it to a viable wagon, preferably hohum. Even better, if you can find the time to read up and post thoughts before deadline.

[VP Baltar]

He jerked out of my grasp and leaped away, then he braced on the balls of his feet, and bashed me in the stomach with a frenzied right hook.

"You bastard!"

he screamed.

"Get away from me! You're a paranoid psychotic!"

---

Vote Count 1-16

:

Jack ~ L-4 (Zachrulez, Sotty7, ortolan)

xRECKONERx ~ L-4 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, hohum, Locke Lamora)
hohum ~ L-4 (Percy, Jack, ekiM)
Sotty7 ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)
ortolan ~ L-6 (Vi)

Not Voting: Jahudo

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is March 31 at roughly 3 p.m. (GMT -4).

[Sotty7]

Huh? Did I say the problem is "he hasn't been forthcoming"? No, I didn't. Just like I didn't say the problem was he's abrasive. Again, you try to pretend the hohum case is about something that it isn't, something weaker...

Your wild speculation that Percy is voting out of pique is so irrelevant. Why do you focus on that early exchange so much.

You agree with Jack's point about the final vote and it taking long. What do you think about him ignoring flinter, his suspect, replacing out? Why do you ignore that point.

I can't understand your line of thinking. You agree with or ignore the strongest points against hohum, yet you won't consider lynching him today. Hrm.

Well I suppose I will put the lynching vote on him if he was run up and my vote was needed. I just don't agree with the bulk of the case and

still

think Jack (who hasn't exactly been posting up a storm in the deadline rush) is more likely scum.

I was just telling you what I agreed with and what I didn't. The flinter point could suggest a connection but the scummiest thing hohum has done is lock his vote in as final in a late reaction to reck. That's how I stand.

[Zachrulez]

At the moment, I'm actually feeling a strong urge to vote for Locke and push a bandwagon on him. He indicated he was waiting on a response from me about Sotty before he said more about us, but since said response, there's been NOTHING from him on the matter.

[Jahudo]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

OK... and what about the strongest points against him? The way he declared his xRx vote final for threatening to replace out, what do you think about that. The way he didn't make that final vote for an hour and felt the need to provide a link to back it up. The way he completely ignored his other suspect flinter replacing out, while throwing the book at Rec for threatening it.

He didn't say his vote was final in 209. It came two days later in response to Vi, who asked him if his vote was "locked on".

So what does the hour refer to?

As for making a vote final, no I don't think that's scummy. Taking ownership of a wagon the way it stands basically says you stand by your case points and you're open to criticism, wagon analysis, etc later on. I think this is different than sitting on a wagon because you can't use the defense that the hammer occurred before you were ready.

And in that way I'm starting to read DDD's post 268 as making his vote final. The "pretty much" has since come to mean "yes" in the defense I've seen from him. So yeah, I'm less suspicious of DDD after hearing his defense.

Back to hohum,

It is a valid contradiction that hohum didn't say he was suspicious of flinter for replacing out, which he could have done even though his reck vote was final. But he did say he wanted to lynch Jack after reck in a recent post, which I can believe is a product of making his reck vote final.


---------------
I can't find another reck game in this time frame that would show his busyness. But that doesn't mean he's faking it, its just his other games are far enough along that he could be more invested in them. The tell is just too subjective right now for me to support a reck wagon. I'd rather he stick around another day and be involved in the game.

I still like a Jack lynch, second suspect is Locke. And now I see ortolan wagon has some support so he'll be my next player read.

Vote: Jack

for now

[Vi]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

I don't remember if he's done it before. I was commenting on the irony of him saying his vote was locked before going on V/LA.

I agree that I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

while still listing two other suspects

. That IMO is the strongest point against him.

If xRx is scum he's playing against two games of recent meta. If I didn't have that, I would want to lynch him a lot more too.
But policy lynching isn't going to win this game - we'll run out of mislynches before we run out of VIs - so with what I have I don't think he's the best play at all.

I'm a little curious about how ekiM's intent chart just happens to have hohum as the only truly viable wagon.

tbqh I don't know who the scum are. I don't want an xRx wagon. I'm less against a Jack wagon, but I didn't get anti-Town vibes from flinter. And really I'm not altogether confident in hohum. The only person I really, really want to see dead is ortolan, whose defense had little to do with what I said and more to do with attacking me with one of the worst arguments I've seen in a long while. Locke Lamora's 368 feels like a chainsaw - apparently just after attacking ortolan I became worthy of mention.

Aaaand full disclosure - I absolutely, positively have to leave by 11:30 tomorrow (4.5 hours before deadline). I'm not going to be able to pay a lot of attention up until then because I'll be studying for a luckgarbage test. Please come to a decision before I have to leave.

I'll reread and see if there's anything else to talk about. Until then, go go ortowagon :arrow:

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

[Vi]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

[Zachrulez]

I just isoed kyle, the only scummy thing I noticed is

You make some decent points on me,

Which is kind of a weird thing to say. I would like to see kyle's response to Vi's 284 though.

I would like to see your response to Vi's 284 and 287.

didn't want to prejudice his responses, br0. Of course now you're going to need to meta his replacement anyway.

Unvote
Vote: kyle

for what looks like tactical replacement.

fos:ortolan

kyle replaced out of another game with the same message...don't like your reaction.

Nice...

[Vi]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

You're basically wrong, and this argument is stupid.

Why don't you want to lynch ortolan? There are plenty of people who have voiced interest in lynching him.

[Jack]

And you were lecturing me about my vote being somewhere that wasn't "helpful".

Your vote wasn't on anyone. Mine's on scum. tyvm

-Your vote is doing jack, VI~

You're not

helping

anyone and it's lending no

credence

to your dedication.-

You're basically wrong, and this argument is stupid.

Why don't you want to lynch ortolan? There are plenty of people who have voiced interest in lynching him.

About 4 going by ekiM's list, compared to about 7 for hohum, who I like a bit better. And deadline is in like 12 hours. You're voting for no lynch right now. Not that I object since you'll change your vote before hand, but that's what you get for lecturing me earlier

[Vi]

Sorry, I still like ortolan+Locke Lamora. If (note "if") Zach and Jahudo acquiesce to an ortolynch - which shouldn't be a decision that would take long to make on their parts - that puts him up to 6; quite a bit more considerable a possibility. Since I have a stronger scumread on ortolan, I would be much more pleased with a lynch thattaway and would gladly take whatever consequences may come of it.

(Full disclosure: I'm well aware that if hohum is lynched and flips scum I'm going to look extremely bad. I don't care.)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'll play along, the reck wagon is stagnant, I don't like the Jack wagon, I do like the ortolan wagon and the hohum wagon at least needs some competition.

Unvote; Vote: ortolan

[xRECKONERx]

If deadline is tomorrow, I don't want to stop a lynch from happening. As I said, I won't be able to catch up until tomorrow night after class and such.

Vote: hohum

.

[Locke Lamora]

ekiM: my previous experience with hohum gave me a very similar read. I won't say any more as it's an ongoing game. As for the Reckoner/flinter thing, the way I read it they were completely different situations. Reck threatened to replace out under pressure and did not, flinter gave no indication of wanting to replace out and then suddenly vanished. I don't see why hohum not treating them the same way is scummy.

I can't say I'm particularly enthusiastic about any of these wagons. I'm going to read back and decide where best to place my vote as the Reck wagon is clearly not happening.

[ortolan]

ortolan wasn't in Death Note Mafia.

Yes I was, I replaced out when you bitched about being in the same game as me (mainly because I called you out as scum, and despite the fact you actually replaced into a game which I was already in for some reason).

[ortolan]

and DDD is another poor fool who is blinded by Vi's obvious facade

[ortolan]

can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get Vi lynched when he's obv-scum? Do you think maybe he's capable of faking his "protown" play considering he never gets lynched and I'm apparently the only one who can consistently read him (although he usually calls the mod in to try to get me out of the game when that's the case anyway)

[ortolan]

it was probably a mistake to think I could play game with Vi, especially considering how intensely I've realised I still dislike him, particularly for the tactics he's pulled in other games which I think are tantamount to cheating (e.g. insulting me in Election Mafia then asking for mod intervention when I respond aggressively), and the shit he pulled yet again in Deathnote which I also consider borderline cheating (I say he's scum he responds with "I really don't want to have to play another game with you).

So

Mod, please replace me

[Vi]

Oh right, I didn't see "ortoSSK" on my vote spreadsheet for that game. Sorry >.>

Anyway, when I saw you were in this game I was really really really hoping this wouldn't get personal again, but etc.

can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get Vi lynched when he's obv-scum? Do you think maybe he's capable of faking his "protown" play considering he never gets lynched and I'm apparently the only one who can consistently read him (although he usually calls the mod in to try to get me out of the game when that's the case anyway)

So let me get this straight.
*It is

inexplicable

for me to have a scum read on you.
*You are the

only one

who can read me as scum.
That's only reasonably narcissistic.

My side of the meta argument is here. If you want where I told ortolan off on a personal level, that's my next post, although it was an aside in a much larger post (note: Gorrad was indeed Town, MBL was indeed scum, and Starbuck was indeed scum, although I didn't know any of that at the time).

That's all I'm going to dredge up. I'm still in favor of an ortolan lynch, although people not posting overnight isn't encouraging.

---

I can't say I'm particularly enthusiastic about any of these wagons. I'm going to read back and decide where best to place my vote as the Reck wagon is clearly not happening.

ortolan

[VP Baltar]

Let's not bring past drama into this thread. I'm going to discuss it with ortolan and if he wants to replace out still, I will be extending the deadline to Friday. I will update everyone soon.

[Jahudo]

@Vi: Did you elaborate on the "locked on" thing? Is that something hohum has done before? (I can't remember if it was in bebop or another game I should know about)

I don't remember if he's done it before. I was commenting on the irony of him saying his vote was locked before going on V/LA.

I agree that I'm bothered by how he called his vote final well before the deadline

while still listing two other suspects

. That IMO is the strongest point against him.

I don't think that happened. When did hohum go on V/LA, and when did he say his vote was locked on? All I can find is you asking if his vote was "locked on", and he said yes.

As for ortolan, I'm still piecing this game together and will try to have a little time before deadline to say one way or the other. If I haven't gotten to someone's player read, its because I didn't find anything that eye-catchingly suspicious on my first read through. That's how ortolan was but its hard for me to see lurking in a catch-up read, so maybe it is there.