Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[sirdanilot]

diarcria, why do you think dramonic is scummy because of that post?

[boberz]

Sorry didnt realise that was against the rules.

[boberz]

Active lurking is always scummy. And you can active lurk in one post. So long as that post is not contributing when it should have been.

Leading town is scummy when done in such a way that it stops (or attempts to) the line of thoughts that were going on.

The point about the null read was that I didnt see the need for it at all, it was just words.

You can always scumhunt!

You did not address the buddying point, a clear attempt to get me onside!!!

Diacra's vote on me is crap. It stems from him/her? not agreeing with my case, disagreeing is not a scum tell.

[Diacria]

diarcria, why do you think dramonic is scummy because of that post?

Will explain later.
And boberz is hilarious.

[Jack]

I agree with sirdanilot. Given that the town can lose halfway through day 2 if enough things go wrong, we should make sure every lynch counts.

[bv310]

/Confirm. I swear if I find a Mountain Lion in my dope field, someone's gonna get it...

[Deer]

I'm fine with fonz's points and I think all the votes made so far are extremely weak.

I've only finished 2 games of mafia on this site, but I've had some RL experience and I'm in about 3 ongoing games too.

[Diacria]

Oh yeah, can we try to lynch someone every 20 pages or so at most? Long days that drag on suck.

[boberz]

I find games are quicker when everyone tries to make the game quick, rather than when people talk about making a game quick.

[The Fonz]

I wont be doing any of the above. But I am not convinced that we should say "on pain of lynch" untill we actually see the situations in detail. I would agree with that if there were a clause saying something like. 'If and only if, there is no justifyable excuse' or something similar.

But this is precisely it. I have listed as exceptions those few things which I consider justifiable excuses. IE, they're on the list precisely because there is no justification for town doing them beyond those mentioned. Do you consider there to be justifiable excuses other than those listed? If so, what?

Can I ask all a question:

How much mafia have you all played?
I have 3 completed games was town in all and won all.

I've lost count of completed games, but I've been a member for a few days short of three years. Can I ask you, boberz- what type of games were these? Were they on this site, and what subforum were they in?

Add D) Not to Lurk, and we're ready to go.

I considered adding lurking, but there are very rare occasions when it benefits certain town players to lurk, but I don't want to elaborate. Do I take it, then, that you agree with the conditions listed?

I seriously hope you don't think scum will honour C)...

Of course I don't. But if scum undertakes not to lie, then is required to lie by the fact of being scum, we can rule out the 'they were just a bad townie who didn't realise lying was bad' excuse, and just cut to the chase of lynching caught scum.

And as for fonz, I suppose it's mostly null that he proposes that stuff, but I don't like how is in favor of getting everyone to agree on a policy lynching method.

Presume for a second that everyone agreed to this contract. What do you think the impact on the game would be?

I sense that sirdanilot is assuming the sort of authority he would have as an IC in a newbie game, he does not have this here we are all equals.

Why are you making this accusation of Sirdan and not of me?

Oh yeah, can we try to lynch someone every 20 pages or so at most? Long days that drag on suck.

We'll try to lynch as soon as we have a likely scum candidate (say, 40% chance or so) or when we're deadlined.

[Deer]

I think point C falls under Lynch all Liars, a policy which I heavily support. If you don't, what are your reasons for doing so?

[Jack]

Townies can lie about their role sometimes. For example: you're the doctor, you are going last in a mass claim, the cop has already claimed --> claim vanilla

[boberz]

Mostly newbie games, but I have also played in Pick Your Poison IV a mini normal.
Currently in two other newbies as well.

Other situations to break your contract. Off the top of my head, what about lying about the nature of their role (dont react to this obviously people it is not rolefishing) such as how many shots or something like that. I dont know but the point I was making is that we need to examine each situation in isolation.

I do not accuse you The Fonz because you only asked for people to comment on your proposition, I felt sirdan did more than this.

[sirdanilot]

Presume for a second that everyone agreed to this contract. What do you think the impact on the game would be?

the point is that we CAN'T know what happens in this game, since it's an open setup.
A more important point: Discussion about when and when not to do what detracts from the scumhunting we have to do. An example is this exact discussion we are having; its getting anti town.

Fonz what do you think about boberz, you have said only one sentence

[sirdanilot]

about him.

[boberz]

Crap sorry PYP4 wasnt normal sorry.

Link is here. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775

[The Fonz]

Townies can lie about their role sometimes. For example: you're the doctor, you are going last in a mass claim, the cop has already claimed --> claim vanilla

Possibly. Unless there's a tracker, who's seen you taking night actions. Or there's a missing kill, meaning you can confirm someone. The very rareness of that case makes the point.

Lying is not a 'never do it' thing, but a 'be willing to be lynched if you're caught doing it' thing. Nonetheless, the number of games I've seen where town has benefited from a role-based lie is two. The number of games i've seen where a town player lying about their role has done significant damage to the town cannot be counted on my hands and toes. Therefore, I'd rather people undertook not to do it at all.

[The Fonz]

Presume for a second that everyone agreed to this contract. What do you think the impact on the game would be?

the point is that we CAN'T know what happens in this game, since it's an open setup.

That's a defeatist attitude. If everyone agrees to the contract, it would mean that everyone has accepted that these three things are bad for town. That means that these players have absolutely no excuse to do these things, and therefore should mean that these things happen less often. Since all these things can do considerable damage to a town, this is a good thing.

[sirdanilot]

its a closed setup, sorry

[sirdanilot]

fonz, do you not agree this discussion detracts from scumhunting?

I'm not trying to avoid it though, I just want to know your opinion on that.

[Deer]

sirdan, I just think it's very difficult to scumhunt in the confirmation phase of a game.

[The Fonz]

fonz, do you not agree this discussion detracts from scumhunting?

I'm not trying to avoid it though, I just want to know your opinion on that.

No, i really really don't. Already it's produced at least one interesting reaction. see my post in md today about the scumhunting benefits of theory discussion. As for boberz, i find it weird that you say i've 'only written one sentence' about him, when i've not given an opinion on any player AS A PLAYER, as opposed to asking a question or commenting on an argument. However, since you asked, he kinda worries me in a 'little knowledge is dangerous' kinda way. He seems like the exact kinda player who might mess things up by trying something 'clever' and not thinking thru every possible consequence. His attitude re you and me seems weird, since i think we're essentially doing the same thing- giving theory opinions, asking for comments and questioning.

[boberz]

I strongly think we should be scumhunting now, there is nothing different now apart form the fact not every player has confirmed. We will get to see the players that are delaying this confirmation and we get to examine everyone's play.

The Fonz, why do you think me prevoting a player that I find scummy means I am the sort of player who will screw things over later in the game???

I had better get this on record, I didnt really suspect sirdan I just thought I could stretch more points on him than anyone else at the time. I am trying to lead by example and scumhunt rather than

just

talk about theory.

I think looking at specific players is more important than theory discussions.

---

Why is it hard to scumhunt deer?

[The Fonz]

I strongly think we should be scumhunting now, there is nothing different now apart form the fact not every player has confirmed. We will get to see the players that are delaying this confirmation and we get to examine everyone's play.

The Fonz, why do you think me prevoting a player that I find scummy means I am the sort of player who will screw things over later in the game???

Who says it has anything to do with your prevote?

[Diacria]

bob, what I think Fonz meant ( and if so I agree with him), you seem like a guy who the quote "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies too, i.e. knowing just enough to think you're being clever, but too little to know when you're screwing up.