Mini 946 The new Zachtown (Game Over!)

[Alexithymia]

Unvote

[Cirdua]

Alex, could you please say or do something useful for once.

You could remove the self-vote for example.

I tried to defend you, honest, but if you keep doing these senseless things all the time I might get frustrated
I know you like to play this way, but could you try to act normal for once or are you gonna claim jester?

[VP Baltar]

With 12 players it seems likely we're either up against (A) one large mafia, or (B) two scum groups. The last time Zachrulez ran a Zachtown game the answer was the former, a large mafia:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1250

Determining which hole we're in is, in my opinion, important to our strategy and scum hunting.

How important do you think this is on Day 1?

Which do you prefer, town or scum? Why?

Eh, I like a good mix of either alignment, though Vi has jinxed me forever and I can't seem to draw scum any more.

Personally I prefer town. I enjoy being one of the good guys, and I rather detest lying. Being town makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

This is pretty showy and makes me want to lynch you.

Unvote, Vote: Lacey

Maybe I misunderstand the dynamics of a 2 scum vs. 10 town, but the setup seems to favor town over scum at first glance, especially with power roles.

well, in a 2vs10 setup without any powerroles, town has about a 0% win rate in the history of MS. Something to consider.

By analyzing potential scum pairs, examples of buddying, etc. Most of all we need to keep in mind the potential setups when building our cases and examining our evidence. For example, since (B) is a potential case, someone scum hunting vigorously needs to not be taken as a gold standard of being town. Vigilance will be key.

As always, the more information we are aware of, the better the chance of a town win.

This is you, attempting to appear pro-town without actually DOING anything.

Wait...I'm being leaped upon because my random vote offered no relevant justification? Wow.

You were "leaped upon"? Where did that happen?

Oh, I see Cirdua is already misrepping me

Seemed like a pretty accurate assessment of your play if you ask me. You're quite interested in talking about things off topic.

hey, alex, now that you've recovered from your manic depression, anywhere else you'd like to plunk that vote down?

Other people who are probably scum with Lacey:
Col. Cathart
Cirdua

And I need to hear from the lurkers soon. That is all.

A URL tag that was unnecessary ended up around the link in the first quoted part of Lacey's post. Somehow that unnecessary tag hid your entire post.

[VP Baltar]

What the frak.....my posts are invisible now?

[VP Baltar]

Lacey, setups are not important on Day 1. At all. You have no clue what we're dealing with and Vi is correct that focusing on that is something scum are far more interested in.

Which do you prefer, town or scum? Why?

Eh, I like a good mix of either alignment, though Vi has jinxed me forever and I can't seem to draw scum any more.

Personally I prefer town. I enjoy being one of the good guys, and I rather detest lying. Being town makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

This is pretty showy and makes me want to lynch you.

Unvote, Vote: Lacey

Maybe I misunderstand the dynamics of a 2 scum vs. 10 town, but the setup seems to favor town over scum at first glance, especially with power roles.

well, in a 2vs10 setup without any powerroles, town has about a 0% win rate in the history of MS. Something to consider.

By analyzing potential scum pairs, examples of buddying, etc. Most of all we need to keep in mind the potential setups when building our cases and examining our evidence. For example, since (B) is a potential case, someone scum hunting vigorously needs to not be taken as a gold standard of being town. Vigilance will be key.

As always, the more information we are aware of, the better the chance of a town win.

This is you, attempting to appear pro-town without actually DOING anything.

Wait...I'm being leaped upon because my random vote offered no relevant justification? Wow.

You were "leaped upon"? Where did that happen?

Oh, I see Cirdua is already misrepping me

Seemed like a pretty accurate assessment of your play if you ask me. You're quite interested in talking about things off topic.

hey, alex, now that you've recovered from your manic depression, anywhere else you'd like to plunk that vote down?

Other people who are probably scum with Lacey:
Col. Cathart
Cirdua

And I need to hear from the lurkers soon. That is all.

[Col.Cathart]

Self-voting NEVER benefits town. Scum may use it sometimes to drown the town in WIFOM soup. Also - yes, self votes are my berserk button, I hate them with burning passion and I prohibit them in my games.

I always had problems with getting a proper read on people like Alex, but so far his responses are not really helping him.

Other people who are probably scum with Lacey:
Col. Cathart
Cirdua

First establish if Lacey is really a scum (so far, comparing her scum game and town game, I see her more as town here), then start looking for partners.

And I need to hear from the lurkers soon. That is all.

While calling anyone 'lurker' at this point is an exaggeration, hearing something from jason, Jasper, d3x and DRK would be nice indeed.

[Jasper]

Unvote

- I had to Vi... I had read a couple of games you were in and have been wanting to play with you. Glad we are here in this game.

Reading that Alex's meta is to self-vote nearly gave me a migraine. Never seen/heard of that meta... but I guess if it works for you?

Lacey asking about the setup threw a red flag to me as I was reading. Why are you doing this D1? I know others have asked... but it still should be.

Vote: Lacey

I can get behind this wagon...

[d3x]

Hello all I know. Howdy to those I don't.

I actually like Lacey and jeromus for Scum right now. The little interaction and back-and-forth on 2 felt like a whole lot of early distancing to me.

Vote:Lacey

Note- There are a lot of people here right now with a whole lot to write but not much to actually say, especially the 2 I just mentioned.

[jasonT1981]

To be honest, I don't really read much into self votes in RVS I have seen quite a few of them... the wagon that formed though was very interesting as to how quick it went.

unvote: Jasper

While calling anyone 'lurker' at this point is an exaggeration, hearing something from jason, Jasper, d3x and DRK would be nice indeed.

you will have to forgive me if I am quiet until monday, as my sig says I am V/LA every weekend. I try to get online when I can at weekends but I tend to go to alot of concerts/shows. Those who have played with me before can testify that this is a weekly occurance.

Maybe I misunderstand the dynamics of a 2 scum vs. 10 town, but the setup seems to favor town over scum at first glance, especially with power roles.

Thats not a bad thing Lacey if it favors town unless you are scum I could understand being nervous and pointing out it favors town.

Anyway, as I say.. I am V/LA as usual at weekends but will try and check in as much as I can.

[DeathRowKitty]

3 pages the first real life day??? Actual discussion??? *checks playerlist* Oh, hello Vi.

Well - As you may have noticed, Alex, Cirdua and I have played together before, and it was both mine and Alex's first game. If there's one thing that game taught me, it's that Alex being a dumbass isn't a tell. It's just Alex.

So, I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Sotty
Only SCUM would get so defensive over spoilers! That happened in the very first episode! Such inconsistency is a definite tell.

Look forward to playing with you all

This is the first post of the game that I don't like. Whereas everyone else up to this point either ignored Alex's self-vote or joined in on the wagon, jeromus found it necessary to point out that Alex self-voting wasn't a tell in the RVS as justification for not joining the RVS wagon. Aaaaaand Vi beat me to it...

I would have something to say about this, but once again, Vi beat me to it. I see no reason the thought of two scum teams should cross a townie's mind.

@Lacey
Have you been in any games with two scum teams?

Also, Lacey's insistence on getting an answer to whether Vi prefers town or scum is disturbing, considering it has little relevance to the game at hand.

Interesting how Lacey comes out with a post on jeromus that looks like it's just meant to make a lot of noise, 4 minutes after jeromus responds to comments about him. What bothers me more is that Lacey suddenly decides jeromus is worthy of a vote after this post, despite not having voted him for his original post (I would expect her to be more likely to vote jeromus in or immediately after the RVS, when we had less to go on, rather than after we were already out of the RVS.).

Alex, could you please say or do something useful for once.

You could remove the self-vote for example.

I tried to defend you, honest, but if you keep doing these senseless things all the time I might get frustrated
I know you like to play this way, but could you try to act normal for once or are you gonna claim jester?

Me no like. Just reading this post puts me in a scum mentality. As scum, I usually pick one townie (not intentionally at first, but I go along with it once it happens) to be on good terms with. I won't vote that player, I'll try to be nice to that player, I may agree with that player more often, heck, I'll even defend that player if I can get away with it. It seems to me like Cirdua was setting up that kind of relationship with Alex for this game. This post just looks ridiculously forced, as if he's looking for excuses to buddy up to Alex a bit.

unvote: Jasper

I notice you didn't follow this up with a vote for someone else. Is there seriously no one you think deserves a vote at this point?

Speaking of which,

unvote, vote Lacey

[Zachrulez]

What the frak.....my posts are invisible now?

I will look into the cause of that.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 1:

Lacey - 5 (Vi, VP Baltar, Jasper, d3x, DeathRowKitty)
Alexithymia - 2 (Sotty7, Col.Cathart)
Sotty7 - 1 (Jeromus)
Jeromus - 1 (Lacey)

Not voting (Cirdua, Alexithymia, JasonT1981)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

DL is April 16 at 1pm CST.

[VP Baltar]

What the frak.....my posts are invisible now?

I will look into the cause of that.

I don't know what it was, but I think it was just a glitch on the site. I had originally quoted Lacey at the start of my post when she was addressing the setup thing first and it previewed as blank, but I just chose to ignore it. After it posted blank, I went back and cut that quote out of the top and it previewed fine so I posted without it.

I don't think it's anything serious.

[Zachrulez]

What the frak.....my posts are invisible now?

I will look into the cause of that.

I don't know what it was, but I think it was just a glitch on the site. I had originally quoted Lacey at the start of my post when she was addressing the setup thing first and it previewed as blank, but I just chose to ignore it. After it posted blank, I went back and cut that quote out of the top and it previewed fine so I posted without it.

I don't think it's anything serious.

Somehow a URL tag ended up around the link in the first Lacey quote. That was the problem.

[Lacey]

I don't have the time right now to go through post by post and answer questions that were posed for me, so I'm going to do a quick job of it here, and if anyone thinks I missed something, let me know. It will likely be Monday before I can get sufficient time to answer as I am trying to avoid on-line games on Sundays.

So first off, why did I talk about the game setup? I know folks aren't too fond of it for some reason, but check out my games on my wiki page. I always do it. It's my meta I suppose. I'm a mathematician and I want to know the odds. Knowing how many mislynches we are from lylo is important to my personal strategies. This is my first game in an "unknown" setup, and it makes me nervous not to have any clue what we're up against.

Yes, I have played in a game with multiple mafia before. I can't talk about it as it is still in session, but I had it drilled into me during that game that it changes the nature of scum hunting.

And my question about what everyone prefers to play was intended to spur discussion. Check my records. I always do it.

As for my voting for jeromus, no apologies there. I think he is looking scummy. His defense of Alexithymia smells wrong, and when I listed out questions he more or less blithely avoided them. I feel he jumped to the defense of another player in RVS, and this to me seems pretty scummy.

My vote went on him when it did because he was openly being nervous and claiming the spot light was on him, when he was still at L-7. Anyone that nervous and fearing pressure needs to get more pressure.

Now I'm growing more convinced that I'm right as Alexithymia accused me of vote hopping.

Vote hopping, really? Since when is switching from RVS to a serious vote, vote hopping? It's scummy to even say this. I'm betting Alexithymia was nervous because I was voting jeromus, his buddy who was defending him from the wagon.

There is something seriously fishing going on between these two.

[Alexithymia]

I meant Vi. Vi's votehopping.

I got you're names mixed up.

I'm not suspicious of you, I'm suspicious of Vi.

I'm not active lurking, I'm trying to write the flavor for my game. So much to catch up on

[Lacey]

I meant Vi. Vi's votehopping.

I got you're names mixed up.

I'm not suspicious of you, I'm suspicious of Vi.

I'm not active lurking, I'm trying to write the flavor for my game. So much to catch up on

Vi has "votehopped" no more than I have Alexithymia.

[Lacey]

And that is a seriously lame defense for the growing connection between you and jeromus in my opinion. You meant to type Vi but typed "Lacey" instead?

[Alexithymia]

Dont protect her.

Go analyse the votes for yourself.

[Lacey]

Dont protect her.

Go analyse the votes for yourself.

She voted jeromus. Then unvoted and voted me. Nearly EVERYONE so far has switched votes once. If you feel there is a legitimate reason to accuse Vi of vote hopping, you have to make one, not just assert one by fiat.

And I still feel this is just a distraction by you to avoid the fact that you initially accused me of vote hoping. Problem is, your distraction is no more believable than your original accusation. You're trying to bury the jeromus tie in nonsense.

[Alexithymia]

hahaha. I actually laughed at your post Lacey. The only tie between myself and Jeromus is that of friendship (trust me if it were anything else, my fiance would go nuts). I felt it necessary to point out the vote hopping because it is not something I have came across so early in a game.

Usually people RVS vote. Unvote. Serious vote.

Either the RVS has been extremely quick, or people are vote hopping.

[Jasper]

So first off, why did I talk about the game setup? I know folks aren't too fond of it for some reason, but check out my games on my wiki page. I always do it. It's my meta I suppose. I'm a mathematician and I want to know the odds. Knowing how many mislynches we are from lylo is important to my personal strategies. This is my first game in an "unknown" setup, and it makes me nervous not to have any clue what we're up against.

You are already thinking LyLo on D1?

*shakes head*

Looking at your Wiki... you were killed N1 twice and Lynched Day 1 once. You replaced into a game and won as scum...

Your meta doesn't seem to be very successful, from a once over glance...

[d3x]

And I need to hear from the lurkers soon. That is all.

Serious VP? The game had been open less than 24 hours and you're calling 'lurker'?

[Lacey]

You are already thinking LyLo on D1?

Way to twist my words. I'd just like to know how many lynches we get. I've played a lot of C9, where you have to guess right very quickly.

Looking at your Wiki... you were killed N1 twice and Lynched Day 1 once. You replaced into a game and won as scum...

Your meta doesn't seem to be very successful, from a once over glance...

It's a somewhat fair argument, though the sample size is not yet large enough to be statistically significant. In the end, I'm a mathematician. I can't help that my mind wants the odds and wants to run simulations of the games to understand the dynamics from a theoretical point of view. That's just how I work.

[Jasper]

Knowing how many mislynches we are from lylo is important to my personal strategies.

I didn't twist your words. You mention it right there. See it? ^ Right up there.