Mini 928 - Bloodlust Mafia Remix - Over!

[MrSuave]

the night kills don't add up... scum/SK was blocked each night. that or someone didn't kill. which makes no sense.

Suave...this topic has been discussed fairly extensively. Your comment above brings absolutely nothing to the game. Since we are considering you confirmed town now...can you perhaps assist the town a bit and provide some content of value? Show us some scum hunting? Be fockin' useful and provide more than one-liners that aren't (fockin' useful that is).

Also...we need more Concerned. Dramonic has not really provided anything yet so he is keeping pace with his predecessors. AMB...any thoughts on current events?

@At all - Would it be useful if every gave their thoughts on who they suspect (as some of us have done)?

okay, I'll do my best =D. Sorry if I've been less than useful up till now. I'll put on my for serious hat.

[havingfitz]

The game appears to have stopped.

Observations...

Llama seems distracted.
JVW hasn't chimed in much other than to defend my case towards him...and not responded to my active lurker question/example.
Suave feels obliged to chime in but not contribute.
Looking forward to Neto/confirmed town take on things.
Sandman has picked things up a bit.
I'm concerned about Concerned.
AMB?
.........AMB?
..................AMB?

[julienvonwolfe]

I responded to your other point about Cyanide, and your point about my lurking is shit because lurking isn't a scumtell (I thought we were past newbie games).

I’ll drop the Cyanide point...it was just the intial read I had when I read those parts of your ISO. As for lurking...I never actually accused you of lurking, I just pointed out that you had a 12 day absence without reason. But since you brought lurking up....is it a scumtell when it’s active lurking? You seem to have had plenty of opportunities in this game to continue making posts while you were away from this one. Is that point is shit?

Your point about my vote being on confirmed townies is your best one but even then it's not good as I'm fairly sure that it's not uncommon for one townie to vote for two other townies during day one. It's just coincidence here that both turned out to be innocent despite their play.

I’m pretty sure it’s not uncommon for scum to vote townies on D1 as well. My point was...on several D1 votecounts that in hindsight were on townies...you were on them. And with 3 scum (4 counting the SK) still in the game, I can not imagine that a wagon on town with 2 or more players does not contain scum...and knowing who on the wagon is town (from their flops and claims) and who I think is more likely to be town...leaves you. I could be wrong but the things that strike me as scummy have been pointing me your way.

Sorry for the delay. Busy time for me RL.

Regarding that game; my policy with this site is that if I post on one game, I post in all of my games unless I am unable (eg. it is night). I think the reason it looks like I have posted there and not here is simply due to it being night in this game.

Regarding your last point, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by discussing your case on me any more, because it sounds like you're pretty set. Nevertheless, you're wrong. Why don't you reconsider those wagons and who's scum and who's not, etc, with the assumption that I'm town? It'd be more useful to town than tunneling on me.

As for who I think is scum...

there's a 2/3 chance from my point of view that one of the following list of people is anti-town:

2. Mr.Sandman
3. almightybob
4. Concerned
5. dramonic
10. Havingfitz
11. LlamaFluff

Going by gut, Llama rubs me the wrong way. Fitz is pushing a case on me that I know to be on a townie, so gets slight scum points for that (though the 'townies can be wrong' point that I brought up earlier applies here in his defense also). Dramonic/Wuicah, Concerned and Sandman have all flown under the radar. Bob seems town to me for some reason, but on balance his voting record is not great and the only really pro-town thing he did, leading the massclaim, isn't much of a pro-town tell.

All in all, I think Dramonic and Llama are scummiest.

Dramonic: I don't like TeWuicah's weak-ass FOS of darkstrike. It screams scum trying to push a lynch along without being on it, to me.

Llama: He's either really into-it scum or into-it townie. There's a slight contradiction in the way he votes Sandman for not taking hard stances, and then admits that he goes back and forth on Sandman.

I would like everybody else on the list above to chime in about their thoughts of whether they would be willing to lynch either. There's a 50% chance that either of them are scum and a somewhat smaller chance that they're SK, so looking at the stats and judging will make it interesting.

[almightybob]

Sorry guys, unexpected RL business. Will have something for you later tonight.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: He's either really into-it scum or into-it townie. There's a slight contradiction in the way he votes Sandman for not taking hard stances, and then admits that he goes back and forth on Sandman.

I dont think ive been going back and forth on sandman here. I have been trying to get him lynched since my second post in the game.

Sandman has picked things up a bit.

He is just defending against me and "summarizing what others have done"

[almightybob]

As far as I can see, not much has really happened over the last couple of pages. The game has slowed down a lot, and we're nearing deadline with no clear lynch candidate.
We need to hit Mafia today guys. Killing SK will not really help us, so if you have someone you think is SK, you should not want to lynch them today.

Going back and rereading since the massclaim, it looks like each player is willing to lynch the following people (please shout out if I'm wrong on any of these):

Netopalis

- Unclear
Mr.Sandman - JVW, Concerned (post 526)
almightybob - Sandman, dramonic, Llama (post 494)
Concerned - Llama, Sandman (post 490)
dramonic - fitz, Sandman (post 538)
julienvonwolfe - dramonic, Llama (post 552)
Havingfitz - Llama, dramonic, JVW (post 510)
LlamaFluff - Sandman, JVW, Concerned (post 493)

MrSuave

- Unclear

[sidenote]
It's really frustrating that our two confirmed Townies are the only two who haven't got any obvious suspects. I can forgive Neto for this because he's just replaced in, but for God's sake Suave, get your head out your ass and do something. Confirmed Town should be seizing the game by the balls while they're still alive to do so.
[/sidenote]


Anyway, to reorder the above suspects-list, that means we have the following potential wagons:

Sandman (4) - almightybob, Concerned, dramonic, Llama
Llama (4) - almightybob, Concerned, fitz, JVW
JVW (3) - Sandman, fitz, Llama
dramonic (3) - almightybob, JVW, fitz

And a couple of other, smaller wagons.


So,

Neto or Suave

- are either of you prepared to vote for either Llama or Sandman? Or if both of you agree on the same person, JVW or dramonic?

[LlamaFluff]

@AMB - Unless you have to put up three, concerned isnt on my list really. The gap between second and third on my list is huge.

[almightybob]

@AMB - Unless you have to put up three, concerned isnt on my list really. The gap between second and third on my list is huge.

OK, noted. It doesn't really affect the main wagons though, so it's not a big deal right now.

[Concerned]

Hey guys I'm now around and on vac, finding this game extremely difficult, I know I should see 4 scum in six possible players and I'm just not seeing it. I Think I might be struggling because this is my first game away from newbies and the scum level is clearly slightly better.

A lot of people are making sense but some of my town reads are clearly wrong. I Think I need to rethink exactly how I perceive town and scummy players in mini games, that said as things stand my views haven't changed drastically over the past couple days, in that my two prime suspects are sandman and llama, sandman more so now based almost solely on his recent sk speculation of llama, to me mafia would always have the sk in the back of their minds whereas town's main priority is to lycnh scum in general. I really don't buy this:

I think you're SK because I actually happen to agree with your views on two I think are mafia - jvw and concerned. However, the way cyanide was playing was nothing but anti-town, and your whole case against me was built on using things out of context to cast me in a bad light. This, added to the fact that I can't seem to see any links between you and any of the other players - no slight defenses of you and no real defenses of anyone from you.

This is a poor excuse to me, sandman-scum is just giving himself an excuse to jump on a jvw or myself wagon while still keeping his options open for jumping on a llama wagon.

To me this is what he is thinking: "I can't say there is a link between llama and the other two because none exists, but I need to keep my options open to lynch any of them if the wagons are going that way."
Hopefully I'm making sense, I'm having a little trouble articulating what I mean here, but I think it's understandable. Obviously if sandman is scum, then llama could very well be the sk, considering sandman-scum's sk suspect list would be a hell of a lot shorter than a townie it's quite conceivable he's managed to work out who it is.
This also fits in with how scummy Cyanide acted on day 1.

[Mr.Sandman]

Llama: He's either really into-it scum or into-it townie. There's a slight contradiction in the way he votes Sandman for not taking hard stances, and then admits that he goes back and forth on Sandman.

I dont think ive been going back and forth on sandman here. I have been trying to get him lynched since my second post in the game.

Sandman has picked things up a bit.

He is just defending against me and "summarizing what others have done"

Read my posts. I'm not defending or just summarizing what others have done. I've defended against you because you're attacking me and I've attacked you for your argument because most of it is built on misrepping. I've set out who I find scummy and why.

I think the reasoning behind not setting out your reasons on JVW is also weak - because 'it'll distract people from voting for sandman'. In what way is that helpful to the town? There are four scum out there, regardless of whether you find me the scummiest or not

@Concerned, I might be misinterpreting what you're saying but in my eyes, it's not the town's main priority to lynch scum because the town doesn't win until scum and the sk are gone, as both are equally anti-town. I take AMB's point however, that at the moment, it's probably more useful to lynch scum

[LlamaFluff]

I've set out who I find scummy and why.

Well your iso 6 and your last "case" post are eerily similar, and you have already claimed that iso-6 was more of just summarizing things then anything else.

I think the reasoning behind not setting out your reasons on JVW is also weak - because 'it'll distract people from voting for sandman'. In what way is that helpful to the town? There are four scum out there, regardless of whether you find me the scummiest or not

If you try and chase two rabbits at once they will both get away. JVN is not going to just go away in suspicion if I get killed since there are people backing that wagon. There is no reason to concentrate efforts on a good, yet suboptimal event when the best one isnt yet shut down. Given the most recent psuedo-VC, its not only a viable, but the most likely scenario.

it's probably more useful to lynch scum

Possibly. If we lynch mafia we have a hard time winning without help from SK (assuming both kills go through). If we lynch SK, its a 4:3 game tomorrow assuming Suave doesnt stop a kill.

[Netopalis]

Ok, sorry it took so long for me to get here. Anyway, I think I have a pretty clear idea of what's going on. My thoughts on each player:

2. Mr.Sandman - Reads very scummily to me. He doesn't seem to really push his own ideas that often and he tried to hammer Darkstrike for dubious reasons.


3. almightybob - Null read - I can't seem to get a handle on him this game.

4. Concerned - Obviously town. Obviously.

5. TeWuicah - I have a pretty strong read as scum here. On D1, I don't like his hopping on the Julien wagon - it seemed opportunistic and not really driven by his own thought. Later, after replacing in, TeWuicah makes 2 posts, neither of which say much of anything.

6. julienvonwolfe - I don't like how he goes after Dramonic and Llama after narrowing down his choices. That decision doesn't make a lot of sense. It WOULD make sense if he were scum with Wuicah, though. Light scum read.


10. Havingfitz - Null read, honestly. I think he could go either way. Probably town at this point.

11. LlamaFluff - I really don't like the attacks on Llama. I've seen Cyanide play elsewhere, and he's just generally bad - I don't think that he's particularly scummy if you get past his illogical playstyle. Likewise, Llama's posts have been good and give me a good pro-town read.

12. MrSuave - Meh. Either failtown or scum, I'm not sure which. I think that there's a good chance he's scum, since only a scum roleblocker would have a huge reason to jailkeep Fifi. Also, I know that I was blocked twice, which shows that either A) Scum also has a roleblocker or B) He's lying. I tend to think that B's more likely.

Therefore, in summary, the scum are:
Julienvonwolfe
Mr.Suave
TeWuicah
Mr. Sandman

Of the group, I feel the strongest about Mr. Sandman. I'll check the votes and make sure this won't hammer, then I'll vote for him.


Also, I'd like to clarify Fifi's claim. I'm a Masonifier. The flavor in the role PM is cultist, but essentially, I target a player and become a town-confirmed Mason with them. I die if I target scum, meaning that anybody that I target and it goes through is town.

[Netopalis]

Nevermind. I'm an idiot. Suave is confirmed because, knowing that the tracker and masonifier are true, there must be at least one of a jailkeeper or a vigilante. Since nobody's claimed vigilante, either a townie is lying about their role or the claim is true. I believe our scumteam to be Sandman, Julienvonwolfe and TeWiucah.

[almightybob]

OK, so that means we have a potential lynching wagon of:

Sandman (5) - almightybob, Concerned, dramonic, Llama, Neto

I'm happy with that.

Vote: Mr.Sandman

[Netopalis]

Let's do it.

Vote: Mr. Sandman

[Nachomamma8]

Day 3 Votecount:

Mr.Sandman (3): LlamaFluff, almightybob, Netopalis
julienwolfe (1): havingfitz

Not Voting (4): Mr.Sandman, Concerned, dramonic, julienvonwolfe

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Mr.Sandman]

Oh dear. Even one of the confirmed townies thinks I'm scum. In response to what you say about me, netapolis, I know it might look like it reading up with a fresh pair of eyes, but I in no ways intended to hammer darkstrike. I think it should be obvious given that I placed the l+1 vote that this is the case. If I'd known that he had already hammered, would I draw attention to myself as scum by adding another vote on the wagon?
I will however, be the first to admit that it wasn't the best town play as I should have counted up votes before I placed mine.

In response to your second part, I feel I have pushed my ideas, perhaps not so much day 1, but day 2, I saw what I thought was scummy and I voted for it, and today - specifically on llama. I think its a good point to raise however and I think a number of players are guilty of this. Considering he's pretty much guaranteed town, MrSuave, has been virtually useless - hasn't pushed anything himself, has barely even commented on other players pushes, basically just active lurking. Fifi before you was pretty similar, although it looks like that may change now. Dramonica and his predecessors have yet to contribute anything significant.

Also, why are you so sure concerned is town?

[Netopalis]

Sorry, but I've seen scum "accidentally" hammer far too many times. I think that you meant to "accidentally" hammer, but didn't realize that the hammer had already happened.

Concerned is clearly town because he has continuously provided good, solid logic, he's been the voice of reason and he seems to be moving the town along. Scum would have just left the town to flail around on its own.

[Mr.Sandman]

Fair enough, I guess I can only give my word for it.

I have a scummy read on concerned primarily because of his day 1 activities - voting fifi, moving away when bandwagon seemed to lose momentum, only to move back again, supporting jvw, and listing scummiest players 3 out of 4 of which are town. He hasn't been particularly active today.

You seem pretty darn certain, however.

[MrSuave]

Sorry, but I've seen scum "accidentally" hammer far too many times. I think that you meant to "accidentally" hammer, but didn't realize that the hammer had already happened.

Concerned is clearly town because he has continuously provided good, solid logic, he's been the voice of reason and he seems to be moving the town along. Scum would have just left the town to flail around on its own.

In most cases I would agree. But in one of my games, a scum was one of the most pro town players. D:

But atm I don't feel like putting Sand at L-1... it just doesn't feel safe, or right. Something's off about this, but I can't put my finger on it

[julienvonwolfe]

but I can't put my finger on it

Indeed! While logically Sandman is a good lynch, I would like to hold off until at least a few more questions get answered:

Bob, Llama and Fitz: Out of you three, one is scum and likely more. Which of the other two would each of you lynch over the other, given no other choice?

The same question to Dramonic, Sandman and Concerned.

[almightybob]

Bob, Llama and Fitz: Out of you three, one is scum and likely more. Which of the other two would each of you lynch over the other, given no other choice?

Llama, as should be clear from my listed suspects in 555. In fact, most people's answers to the question should be clear from 555.

[julienvonwolfe]

Ah, I see what you mean, though it is more useful for the other people.

It is interesting that you and fitz would both lynch Llama, but not Sandman. Can you tell me what in particular about Fitz' play you like?

[Mr.Sandman]

but I can't put my finger on it

Indeed! While logically Sandman is a good lynch, I would like to hold off until at least a few more questions get answered:

This just confirms my opinion of you. I'm 'logically' a good lynch? What does that even mean? You've barely even raised any suspicion of me before, even as recently as the top of the page. You agree with suave saying there's something not right and yet what you still prepare yourself for jumping on this bandwagon at a later stage, whilst trying to cover your back at the same time

[LlamaFluff]

but I can't put my finger on it

Indeed! While logically Sandman is a good lynch, I would like to hold off until at least a few more questions get answered:

Bob, Llama and Fitz: Out of you three, one is scum and likely more. Which of the other two would each of you lynch over the other, given no other choice?

Do I get to know Sandmans flip first or not?