Mini 941: (Almost) No Rules Mafia (Game Over)

[UncertainKitten]

Heh, I forgot, I can't vote can I. He was

just that scummy!

[Espeonage]

It is the fact that he chose to post with his sham instead actually posting. It means he is here but choosing to ignore the game.

[Fishythefish]

FoS:

Espeonage. "Using a sham account" is not something I see as an automatic scumtell. Please say why you think scum are more likely to do this than town - I can't see a plausible reason.

[Zang]

In docpotter case I don't think that using a sham is scummy but I am wondering why he did use it instead of using his main account or PMing zoraster.

[xvart]

I believe the whole DocPotter/Annachie thing is irrelevant in motives because he clearly doesn't care. Hunting out lurkers isn't going to be effective by scattering votes around; so move your vote over to Dedicated Scribe. Now.

xvart.

[zoraster]

Replacing out DedicatedScribe.

[Zang]

DedicatedScribe must have requested replacement since his last post was only 2 days ago.
DS's replacement- Crypto Claim!

[Espeonage]

FoS:

Espeonage. "Using a sham account" is not something I see as an automatic scumtell. Please say why you think scum are more likely to do this than town - I can't see a plausible reason.

The fact that he hasn't been posting with his actual account at all makes me see his use of a sham as scummy.

[Zang]

FoS:

Espeonage. "Using a sham account" is not something I see as an automatic scumtell. Please say why you think scum are more likely to do this than town - I can't see a plausible reason.

The fact that he hasn't been posting with his actual account at all makes me see his use of a sham as scummy.

Yes, but what is scummy about asking the mod a question?Besides the fact that he used a sham, How did he use his sham for scummy purposes?

[totallynotmafia]

Unvote, Vote: Zang

I'm absolutely baffled as to how you think my use of a sham account is scummy but DocPotters isn't.

Now that we know that the rolecop doesn't detect allignment I was going to say that Bananas should treestump but I think I have a better idea. I think Bananas should claim their real identity (only as an alternative to stumping), as if they are town they will force scum to either:

1) NK them, which saves us from one NK as we are most likely going to stump Bananas tomorrow anyway.

or:

2) Not NK them and risk being rolecopped.

For myself I think it would allow me to trust Bananas a lot more if I knew who the real person behind them was (although I think I may know already, but I'd rather know for sure).

[Zang]

All docpotter did was ask a question to the mod. What is scummy about that?
You used your sham as a joke which possibly could have been used to confuse the town and you only said that it was a joke afterwards which can be seen as an excuse. (I thought I already said this)

[totallynotmafia]

I don't understand what you mean by "confusing the town", what exactly do you think I was trying to accomplish by posting with a fake account which looked exactly like me? Wouldn't I do it looking like somebody else if I wanted to confuse the town and then claim it was a joke afterwards? And how is DP's random post as Annachie asking the mod a question not confusing at all to town?

[Espeonage]

There isn't anything wrong with using a sham.
The IS a problem with almost never posting with your actual account but instead using a sham.

[Zang]

I don't understand what you mean by "confusing the town", what exactly do you think I was trying to accomplish by posting with a fake account which looked exactly like me? Wouldn't I do it looking like somebody else if I wanted to confuse the town and then claim it was a joke afterwards? And how is DP's random post as Annachie asking the mod a question not confusing at all to town?

It was confusing because it was distracting. Gelid just claimed, DS promised a post full of info and treestumping became a good idea for most. Posting a joke account in the middle of this diverted our attention to you and away from any of the above. And annachies post is distracting but I don't see what it was distracting us from and if you think it is scummy why aren't you voting for him?

I still want to know though why docpotter used annachie instead of his own account.

[totallynotmafia]

The problem with Annachie's post is that he was asking if there is a penalty for not answering a prod, which means that DocPotter was most likely prodded, and instead of just answering the prod and just saying in thread "I don't have time to post content I'll do it later" he used a second account to ask if there was a penalty, which seems to me like DP is trying to get away with lurking as long as possible. Let's not forget though that especially after xvart's claim we may have more people with weird roles or posting restrictions

It was confusing because it was distracting. Gelid just claimed, DS promised a post full of info and treestumping became a good idea for most. Posting a joke account in the middle of this diverted our attention to you and away from any of the above. And annachies post is distracting but I don't see what it was distracting us from and if you think it is scummy why aren't you voting for him?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what seems like an inconsistency to me in you seeing one use of a sham account as scummy and another not. It makes me think that DP could be your scumbuddy.

[Fishythefish]

Hmmmm. I think tnm has a point about Bananas's real identity. And since I'm the only one with a vote on that particular matter -
I am Bananas.
Reasons for doing this -
1. Getting NK'd isn't a terrible result.
2. I want to be able to push the excellent arguments why I should live openly whenever I like.
3. With rolecop less powerful, the arguments for staying hidden aren't that strong.
My cryptoclaim's plaintext is "I am Bananas" or similar. The key is UKisscumJ0AT, where the "0" of "J0AT" is a zero. Bananas will post shortly to confirm.

I think the town should leave me alive today. Rolecop is still potentially very useful - I might find a scummish role, and if they have fakeclaimed their game is up. Rolecop basically forces scum to claim their real roles today, or risk being outed. I might find a townish role - in which case I can sit on the information until we need it. A few examples-
Very likely or likely town
Cop
Gunsmith
Vig
Miller
Mason
Bodyguard
(With UK's role), tracker, roleblocker at least won't be UK's mafia.
Double voter
Super Saint
Backup for any of the above
I've never seen a scum watcher, but one could exist, I suppose.

Scum roles are rarer, but redirectors of all kinds (inc. bus driver) are scummy.

Of course, if I see they do nothing, they are a doctor, and probably some other things, it's not that useful. But there are very decent odds my rolecop gives us useful information to some extent.

So, that's why it's worth leaving a protown rolecop alive. Here's why I am a protown rolecop:

I can't say this enough times. Put yourself in my shoes, as an MNSJOAT with UK already claimed. The coin flips, and you get an alignment. If you are town, how would you play? If you are scum, how would you play? I've got a fair amount of towncred out of this play, and it's still universally acknowledged that I'm going to be dead (or rather stumped) by the end of day 2 (although I fully intend to lynch one scum, rolecop another, and get trusted). This was

totally

predictable. I'm no idiot when it comes to game mechanics. It is obvious that both MNSJOATs have no chance to get to endgame. As scum, you sit quiet, you kill UK, and you use your awesome powers thereafter. As town, you do exactly what I've done. You out the scum, you force their stumping, and you try to get one powerful night action in before your own death. I've got significant towncred out of this claim, and

still

if I was scum I'd have done better to sit there cackling.

Scumhunting time:
- CML.
When called on posting more game relevant stuff in the "Let's play a Game!" (LpaG) thread, he denied this. Now, firstly, I think that giving opinions and asking questions there more than here should be a scumtell. It's trying to get validation for your ideas from players who have no effect in the game. But much worse, it's not the action of someone who wants the town to know his opinions and perhaps follow them. If you think xvart is scum, you should be going for his lynch. If you are going for his lynch, you should be trying to persuade me he is scum. But you're not. Asking him questions here and giving your opinions there is weird - it looks like an attempt to push his wagon without committing to it.

DP attacks him over this, and he immediately pulls the "you're his scumbuddy" line, and

votes DP

. Rather than respond to DP's actual arguments (which are that he's been doing things in LpaG he should have been doing here), he undermines them with an arbitrary pairing, supported by nothing except two players agreeing on one point. Also, if A is scummy, and B becomes linked to A, the natural reaction is always to vote A. You had a scummy player, now scummier via the link - he must be scummier than the person who is only a potential partner.
Later, he explains this by saying DP has answered his concerns. This may be true, but he didn't say so at the time, and it's the obvious way to withdraw from your suspicions as scum.

When xvart makes a good point about CML's directing LpaG, CML strawmans it into a crude "LpaG is useless and scummy" argument.

On UK/Bananas(me), he says they should both die, and goes on to ask them "if they'd mind dieing first". Now, the first point is a reasonable one. Both dieing was certainly a credible stance, at least. But the second is just weird. Of course neither wants to die first. This isn't a scumhunting question - but it is a way in which you could cast aspersions on anyone who answered it honestly. Feels like he wants a way to change from the obvious read on UK/Bananas.

The bit I've talked about before, and really dislike, is after I brought up treestumping (why did I do that, btw?). Two people (IIRC) had made "stump em both" noises, and CML came up with this gem:

I see no reason not to force both Bananas and UK to treestump now, to

A) prevent whichever one is scum from doing it later
B) prove that UK isn't a jester setting herself up with a comically elaborate plot

I very much doubt that the latter is the case but since I'm not 100% sold on UK being the scum of the pair then I'd appreciate this from ol' Nanas.

Read this. What does A) even mean? What is the harm in scum treestumping later, exactly? B) is, and always was, obvious BS. CML isn't thinking about the risks and rewards of leaving Bananas alive, and isn't saying how convinced he is of alignment. In other words, he's not addressing

any

relevant points here. This is the stance of someone who wants to sound like they have a reason to stump Bananas - not the stance of someone who has thought about what is happening.
He does later say he doesn't want a "free night to have superscum around". But in this case, what's actually happening is that there is a small chance that superscum is around, and a large chance that supertown is around (at that point, protown abilities were unclaimed, and could have been very powerful indeed). CML is only looking at one side of the picture - a worst case scenario - which is at best poor play and more likely an attempt to get a powerful protown role lynched.

I expected to address other players (and will still do so when I get a chance), but noone else compares with CML. Let's lynch this scumbag.

[Fishythefish]

@ mod et al.

: access won't be spectacular this weekend. Should be on occasionally, and normal service should be resumed on Monday/Tuesday.

[Bananas]

I confirm that I'm Fishy. Mostly. I like to think I've taken over a part of his brain, and am now an independent entity.

[Espeonage]

What fishy says makles sense.
Bananas is a Flood.

[UncertainKitten]

Fishy, sorry, but it was pretty damned obvious you were the other JoaT. Honestly, should have outted you when I first realized it, but whatever.

Rest of your gloss honestly doesn't appeal to me. ani is probably scum more likely. But whatev.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Hoopla ( 0 )
totallynotmafia ( 0 )
UncertainKitten ( 0 )
xvart ( 0 )
animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Zang ( 2 ) CooLDoG totallynotmafia
Espeonage ( 1 ) xvart
DedicatedScribe ( 1 ) Zang
DocPotter ( 1 ) CallMeLiam
CallMeLiam ( 2 ) DocPotter FishytheFish
FishytheFish ( 0 )
CooLDoG ( 0 )
totallynottotallynotmafia ( 0 )
Annachie ( 1 ) Espeonage
Not Voting ( 3 ) DedicatedScribe Hoopla animorpherv1
Total Votes ( 11 )

With 11 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline: Tuesday, March 30th at 16:00 EDT

[xvart]

Unvote

Vote: UncertainKitten

xvart.

[UncertainKitten]

Real intelligent thar. Lynching a non entity? I'm eliminated. This is an 11 player game now. You still have a lynch. Are you seriously going to waste it?

[zoraster]

DeathNote replaces in for DedicatedScribe.

Thanks DeathNote! I'm now looking for a replacement for DocPotter as he's asked to replace out. Tell your friends.

[UncertainKitten]

Unvote, Vote DeathNote

Policy.