Mini 911 - Mike's Pizzeria Mafia (Game Over)

[Parama]

Well there was a bit of bias there, I assure you. I decided on my reads before I typed up any of the ISOs

[Thor665]

I certainly don't doubt that. But at certain points you did have to extrapolate out a version of scumhunting for what I did. I can remember what was going through my head for most of the points you raised and I know for a handful I allowed myself to slip into a "scum mentality" if you will.

Sometimes I'd type an answer, then pause and think - 'hey, is this a word trap, is he trying to fool me, is this answer going to look scummy?' I would then go back and readjust my answer. An inordinate amount of those posts were what showed up on your 'Thor as scum' examples and I suspect it was because you were noting places where either I was being cagey or was being less then fully forthcoming with my thought process (most of the rest were simply me being an idiot).

As such I know when playing as town (and if I ever end up playing as scum) what sort of mental constructs to perhaps avoid.

Also, like you, I've never been lynched, and actually in all honesty this is about the closest I have ever come to having a scum case presented against me, so it was very worthwhile to see.

[crypto]

Well, except putting out bold FoS pseudo-votes - those things are still useless.

They're useful for drawing the eyes of those impatient, scatterbrained townies who enjoy skimming posts too long for their attention spans, hopping on mid-game lynch wagons for no particularly rational reason, and killing off town in LYLO.

[Seven]

Thor, DRK, IK, Jack... I had a great time playing with all of you. You all had really different playstyles, and I learned so much from this game (as scum or as town) you have no clue.

Great victory, Parama and ES! Sorry I was so ready to bus the both of you but hey you do what you have to.

I probably won't be playing mafia for a while but I'll look forward to playing with you again (on your side, I hope).

I'd like to get some feedback on the game... major mistakes or anything. I am going to come back in a few weeks and I'd like to know what to improve on/keep doing.

I still can't believe I didn't get lynched D1, btw. That was a miracle.

[Thor665]

Are you attempting to just be rude or educate me? You're not doing too well at the latter because you have me focusing on the former.

I happily admit I made errors in this game and have been more then forthcoming with those admissions and even explaining where I went wrong with them. This is quite literally only my 4th completed game of Mafia, I do believe mistakes can and will happen and I don't see how my particular mistakes were affected by whether or not I did or didn't use bold FoS notes.

[Seven]

And Shiv! I forgot to mention you but yeah I felt bad pushing for your lynch, you were playing well. Turned out you were the cop though so... heh.

[Seven]

Oh yeah and Jack, you're a shit. I don't mean to be offensive but that gambit you pulled at the end of D3... I spent about 10 minutes staring at the screen absolutely terrified because I knew I had to say something but I couldn't think of a damn thing that wouldn't sound scummy as hell.

[Jack]

Your posts were ok, the second one anyway. Parama was the one who looked scummy, but that was a done deal already. I enjoyed the responses though

[crypto]

No, Thor, it was more of a vastly frustrated sweeping statement. If I wanted to be rude to you in particular, I'd most likely refer to your puzzling logic that I was scummy because I insisted people reveal their opinions on a player who had gone either ignored or unquestioned by nearly everyone throughout the game. Truly, there is a lot of scum appeal to pursuit of that independent and unpopular project.

Turned out you were the cop though so... heh.

Yeah, well I probably would've investigated Parama had I lived, since I had a scum read on him for no concrete reason. Which wouldn't have ended well no matter how I play it out in my head.

[Thor665]

No, Thor, it was more of a vastly frustrated sweeping statement. If I wanted to be rude to you in particular, I'd most likely refer to your puzzling logic that I was scummy because I insisted people reveal their opinions on a player who had gone either ignored or unquestioned by nearly everyone throughout the game. Truly, there is a lot of scum appeal to pursuit of that independent and unpopular project.

Please go back and re-check. I said I didn't understand or like your logic and was confused when you became upset that I didn't. I never said it was scummy - I instead voted for you (for the brilliant reason) because I found your predecessor scummy and your logic confusing.

[Thor665]

Oh, and also on a policy concept which was also stupid to do.

[crypto]

Er, I don't remember you ever agreeing to give your read on LS, at least not until after my analysis of him, and your reason for that was that my logic was scummy. As for the "Confusing logic is a scum tell" reasoning ...

Whatever, I know your alignment now; the rampage can stop.

[Dragonfly13]

Y'know what? My role PMs are on the other computer in my other town, so you guys will have to wait till Sunday for (totally non-) formal post-game stuff. Oh the suspense!

Here's the setup, at least.

Dragonfly's awesome exciting fun setup

6x Vanilla Townie
Sane Cop
Bodyguard (protects like doc, dies if protected player is killed)
Watcher

mafia godfather
mafia roleblocker
mafia goon

Until then, good game, everyone. Thanks for sticking with it during all the replacing! I had a great time modding this game, even if it

was

a wicked something straight from the fiery depths of the Hell beyond the River Styx at times trying to find replacements. I found a lot of insight in being able to follow an entire game as it played out while knowing every role from the beginning.

I'll have more Sunday!

[Cuetlachtli]

Ok well I am seeing a lot of "I thought Seven and Parama were scummy I just didn't know why" comments. I have found many, many scum tells that were committed at one point or another by each of the scum team members. Since I don't want to write an essay that very well won't be read, I have devised an exercise that is a very good at improving scum hunting and is also low risk for me.

I am going to list all the scum tells that I identified in the game and I want who ever is willing to participate in this exercise to identify the thread page or the particular player's ISO number. Then we will discuss the identified event and tell as a group. If no one decides to participate in this exercise, then GG, GL, and see you out there.

Scum Tells:

Information Instead of Analyze (IIoA) https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... .28IIoA.29

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version) https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Version.29

Distancing https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Distancing

Bussing https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bussing

Speedlynch https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Speedlynch

Appeal to Emotion https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... to_Emotion

Straw Man https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strawman

Informed Minority (Players seeming to know much more than they should. i.e. "Play X is town" instead of "

If

player X is town")

Gloating https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia

Stalling

That is all I have at the moment. If anybody else observed any other scum tell, please share. Happy hunting!

[Thor665]

Well, Cuet, I'm certainly game to try - but am going V/LA though till April 5th. If you're still game I'd be willing to give your list a shot sometime that week.

[Cuetlachtli]

Sure

[evilsnail]

Woo! Well-done Parama and Seven! You guys manage to bring it home despite both being under some suspicion. It's especially amazing that Seven managed to hang on despite the Day 1 wagon and townie claim.

I do wonder about evilsnails doc claim personally. That was what saved Parama yesterday. But it still seems like an odd move, unless he'd picked up that he'd been seen/wanted to flush out the real doc real bad.

I claimed Doc because I had picked up on the fact that DRK had a result. The moment he asked me what I thought of IK, a few posts in on Day 2, I twigged that he knew I'd targetted IK. At the time, I thought he was a Tracker. So I knew that I had to claim a power role if it came to it. Then the mass claim went very quickly and Thor, IK and you had already claimed by the time I had to. At that point, only Parama and LS still had to claim, so I risked claiming Doc. It seemed the only role that made sense in the set-up. I briefly considered claiming roleblocker, but I feel that's more often a anti-town role than a pro-town one. But then it turned out DRK was a Watcher, so I was screwed anyway. But oh well. I actually felt I was doing pretty well up until that point.

Shiv going on about contradictions in my posts was really frustrating. I actually obsessively check all my previous posts for consistency when I'm scum. I contradict myself much more when town. It's mostly just that I'm sloppy with wording.

[evilsnail]

Cuet, it's pretty easy to say that all of the scum committed a lot of tells since Dragonfly told you who the scum were not so long after you died and you've been reading the game with that knowledge. It's not unlikely that had you lived, you would have changed your mind on Parama and Seven at least somewhat.

[Jack]

Cuet, it's pretty easy to say that all of the scum committed a lot of tells since Dragonfly told you who the scum were not so long after you died and you've been reading the game with that knowledge. It's not unlikely that had you lived, you would have changed your mind on Parama and Seven at least somewhat.

Yes, this happens in every dead quicktopic

I don't really pick out those tells that much. I couldn't say where they dropped them, and don't find it convincing when people just say "such and such a tell".

[Cuetlachtli]

Cuet, it's pretty easy to say that all of the scum committed a lot of tells since Dragonfly told you who the scum were not so long after you died and you've been reading the game with that knowledge. It's not unlikely that had you lived, you would have changed your mind on Parama and Seven at least somewhat.

No ES it was obvious that Parama was Seven's scum buddy to me on Day 1. The only thing that would have confused me tremendously is if we had lynched SP on Day 1. You actually suggested an SP lynch over a Seven lynch in your first post, which should have been a red flag to all of the remaining players who read your ISO after you flipped scum.

[Cuetlachtli]

Cuet, it's pretty easy to say that all of the scum committed a lot of tells since Dragonfly told you who the scum were not so long after you died and you've been reading the game with that knowledge. It's not unlikely that had you lived, you would have changed your mind on Parama and Seven at least somewhat.

Yes, this happens in every dead quicktopic

I don't really pick out those tells that much. I couldn't say where they dropped them, and don't find it convincing when people just say "such and such a tell".

Ok have it your way Jack. I don't see how your approach is very pro-town. Even though your "gut reads" were pretty good, how do you expect to convince the town that "so and so" are scum if you don't present a case? Players that don't articulate why they think someone is scum, come off as scum themselves and end up having little credibility with the town.

IMO, I think that is something you should work on.

[Jack]

I make cases ok when I'm scum. But I don't enjoy it as town and it feels a bit dishonest.

[Seven]

And Jack if it's your playstyle it's not really something you can argue with. It's not like your playstyle is something bad for town like active lurking all game or anything like that. And it's not like all you do is say gut this gut that either... Unless I'm reading you wrong you seem to put a lot of traps into your posts that I try desperately to avoid. I was always nervous whenever I saw you had posted, like "fuck what now".

[Parama]

Great victory, Parama and ES! Sorry I was so ready to bus the both of you but hey you do what you have to.

I bussed ES basically all of D3 so don't feel bad

[danakillsu]

Well....
I sucked.
Fun playing with you guys.