Mini 937 - Mafia on Death Row OVER


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:55 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Vote Count A000010


MafiaSSK (4) [Damon_Gant, wolframnhart, MagnaofIllusion, Zodiark13]
GreenDude (2) [My Milked Eek, pickemgenius]
My Milked Eek (2) [Nachomamma8, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!]
easjo682 (1) [DeathSauce]
Damon_Gant (1) [MafiaSSK]
pickemgenius (0) []
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! (0) []
wolframnhart (0) []
MagnaofIllusion (0) []
Nachomamma8 (0) []
DeathSauce (0) []
Zodiark13 (0) []
Not voting (2) [Greendude, easjo682]


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is currently March 29 at 3am EST (8am GMT).
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:21 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

easjo682 wrote:the unvote is because, I no longer think that the person my vote was on is scum.

you want to know why we aren't convinced? Its hard to say what the direct reason for that is but for the most part his actions come off more as anti town than scum
Do you have any thoughts at all then on who might be scum?
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:56 am

Post by My Milked Eek »

Damon_Gant wrote:Pleasing to see a post from MME, I was literally just about to call for one. Just so you know, I don't think that your entry to GD's wagon was necessarily scummy in the slightest, it was a wagon that was good for getting information. MafiaSSK hampered its usefulness unfortunately by his unvote, but I've said this a thousand times.
Yeah, I was just saying that hopping on the wagon isn't scummy. The only thing I perceive to be scummy is mafiassk's unvote.
samp wrote:for silently leaving his vote on GD in that last post.
lol, I forgot I hadn't unvoted yet.
Unvote. Vote: Mafiassk
.
Nachomamma8 wrote:DRK, I can breadcrumb my word because I'm Irish and cool :D. I'm not short and Lucky Charms are nasty to me, so I guess it doesn't work too well... :(

Much better! Carry on.

-DRK


Vote: My Milked Eek
Cool. Anything else to share with us about the game?
Eek
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:39 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

Ok, it's less than 6 days until deadline, we really do need to coordinate ourselves here, as well as increase discussion. These are the things that I'd most like to see.

Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.

Greendude & easjo: You are both lacking real suspicions. I'm not just saying this because you're the only people without a vote on anyone, but also because your posts don't indicate that you suspect anyone either. You must have some sort of suspicions.

Nachomamma: We need your opinions on things ASAP.

SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?

Everyone: Activity now leading up to the deadline would be very nice. Also, I'd like to know who people's second suspicions are, because it seems to me like most of us have only really stated one, and we really ought to let our other feelings out there. I'll start, easjo would be my second choice at the moment, for non-committal play, as well as general anti-townness.

I hope I don't seem demanding by this post! I just want to make sure that people aren't struggling to know what to post about.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:42 am

Post by My Milked Eek »

Mafiassk and Zodiark.

Zodiark because he dislikes the wagon on gd (not a real reason, but calling the wagon scummy is a bridge too far), fos's the three last ones, including mafiassk, and afterwards he tries to mudsling mafiassk with some nice omgus that wasn't there. And then there's the whole post dismissing mafiassk's defense, which reeks of bussing or pushing an easy lynch.

Come to think of it,
Unvote. Vote: Zodiark13
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:34 am

Post by DeathSauce »

Damon_Gant wrote: Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.
.
Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:47 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

DeathSauce wrote:Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.
First off welcome Nacho ..

Secondly I'll be back with a more content full post later.

Deathsauce - Why do you hate them? Quote posting provides a direct link between the points you are making and your responses. Do you find them anti-town / scummy? Should players who find those style of posts informative and effective feel you are scummy for not providing direct evidence for your accusations?
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 am

Post by Super Awesome Mega Zord! »

Damon_Gant wrote:SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?
Yes. He still hasn't given any update on his thoughts on GD, which is hypocritical given that he's attacking SSK for making an easy jump off that wagon. And, he clearly saw post 246 (since he quoted my vote) but chose not to answer the question I asked to everyone on the SSK wagon.

Speaking of which, I'd still like everyone on the SSK wagon to answer.
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:26 pm

Post by DeathSauce »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
DeathSauce wrote:Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.
Deathsauce - Why do you hate them? Quote posting provides a direct link between the points you are making and your responses. Do you find them anti-town / scummy? Should players who find those style of posts informative and effective feel you are scummy for not providing direct evidence for your accusations?
PBPA is meaningless, you can make anyone look scummy with it. It's neither pro nor anti-town. I don't care if others want quotes, I will use them, but sparingly. If I say "please read Player X and look for these clues" it's because I want you to do that. If you're too lazy, I'll be damned if I'll do the work for you.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:55 pm

Post by Zodiark13 »

Ok, first off, WFT Eek. You jump off gd when people disapprove, and jump straight for the nearest wagon, on SSK, and when you get implied disapproval from Damon, who asks people to post their suspicions of other players, you jump again, to me. Not counting the fact you never even gave a reason for jumping on SSKs wagon, or a reason for leaving it.

On my OMGUS point against SSK, my opinion is that OMGUS is OMGUS, even if it is well reasoned. I was asking everyone else if they felt it was OMGUS too, because I didn't want to attack him for that reason if no one else thought it was. And how is pointing it out suspicious?
And then there's the whole post dismissing mafiassk's defense, which reeks of bussing or pushing an easy lynch.
Seriously, have you read the first paragraph? Go and read it and tell me how illegible it is.

@DeathSauce,

If you don't provide the evidence for your case, you setting yourself up for two things;
1. People dissmissing your case as having no evidence, or even calling you suspicious for attacking without giving reason.
2. Scum coming along and presenting the case in a way that is advantageous to them. They can make it seem worse than it is to get them mislynched, or make it seem better than it is, in the event you are on actual scum.

If you see SSK as anti-town, why not a compromise and policy lynch SSK. At best we hit scum, and at worst we kill off a poor town player. Unless you provide particularly damning evidence in the next 5 days, towns not going to turn around and go after easjoe until tomorrow.


@SAMP,
I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?
This relies heavily on your knowledge of how SSK plays as both town and scum, so I dismissed this opinion myself. Even if you have played other games with SSK, what makes you think he's playing differently?[/rhetorical]

@Damon,
FoS: BrokenBlueprints, My Milked Eek, pickemgenius, MafiaSSK
Does this answer you question? I went after SSK because it seemed pointless to go after the other two when everyone else is going after SSK.
Zodiark for one, joined the wagon with initially, very little to contribute himself, so he would have been an easier target.
I really do hate to prove you wrong, but I was the one who pointed out that SSK was lurking, which he is.

Lastly, Nacho, please explain your reasons for voting for Eek. Not that there isn't any, but you just replace in, vote and then vanish. At this point of the game we can't afford to have votes in unexplained areas.
Returning froma spontanious extended sabatical. Posting from an Android with a crappy touch keyboard, so spelling mistakes will occur with wild abandon.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:12 pm

Post by GreenDude »

Gotta post something before I get a prod. Sorry, I didn't get much chance to post but I have been reading up a bit. I will be posting again tomorrow.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:06 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Expect another large post tomorrow.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:21 pm

Post by My Milked Eek »

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:
Damon_Gant wrote:SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?
Yes. He still hasn't given any update on his thoughts on GD, which is hypocritical given that he's attacking SSK for making an easy jump off that wagon. And, he clearly saw post 246 (since he quoted my vote) but chose not to answer the question I asked to everyone on the SSK wagon.
I stated reasons on several occasions. I do not see it necessary to state your reasons every time you vote.

And the main reason I jumped to Zodiark is because in my opinion because of his interactions with mafiassk he is the one of the two who must be scum, while mafiassk is independently of zodiark scummy. As I said, zodiark appears to be bussing or pushing an easy lynch, in both cases making him scum pushing a lynch, be it a mislynch or not.

Zodiark13 wrote:Ok, first off, WFT Eek. You jump off gd when people disapprove, and jump straight for the nearest wagon, on SSK, and when you get implied disapproval from Damon, who asks people to post their suspicions of other players, you jump again, to me. Not counting the fact you never even gave a reason for jumping on SSKs wagon, or a reason for leaving it.
Could you provide a quote where demon_gant actually implies that voting for ssk is bad? My unvote of mafiassk isn't caused by demon in the way you think he did. He made me think about your stance towards mafiassk and your reasonings used in this game.
mafiassk wrote:On my OMGUS point against SSK, my opinion is that OMGUS is OMGUS, even if it is well reasoned. I was asking everyone else if they felt it was OMGUS too,
because I didn't want to attack him for that reason if no one else thought it was
. And how is pointing it out suspicious?
Let me bold it for you.^

A) there's really not a big discussion to be held on whether or not it's omgus, omgus, unlike other things in mafia, is easily distinguishable and this here isn't omgus. Or didn't you read the wiki?
B) saying "do you think this is omgus?" is you doing two things:
B1) you're testing the waters for some mafiassk pushing
B2) you're asking someone else to say it
B3) you're asking someone else to form an opinion for you
Neither of these answers is a good one. And imo, it's #1 (as you've admitted) and some of #2.
Eek
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:00 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Vote Count A079901


MafiaSSK (4) [Damon_Gant, wolframnhart, MagnaofIllusion, Zodiark13]
My Milked Eek (2) [Nachomamma8, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!]
GreenDude (1) [pickemgenius]
easjo682 (1) [DeathSauce]
Damon_Gant (1) [MafiaSSK]
Zodiark13 (1) [My Milked Eek]
pickemgenius (0) []
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! (0) []
wolframnhart (0) []
MagnaofIllusion (0) []
Nachomamma8 (0) []
DeathSauce (0) []
Not voting (2) [Greendude, easjo682]


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is currently March 29 at 3am EST (8am GMT).

Please notice the deadline is in less than 5 days. However, day will probably not end until several hours after deadline, depending on whether or not I'm awake at 3am that day.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?
There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.

I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying that that's what could be the case. The reason why I suspect him is in fact, opposite to what you said, I can't understand his actions from the point of view of a town person.
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:55 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

EBWOP: might have been to make it look like HE'S being reasonable

I apologise for calling you an "it" MafiaSSK, that was not the intention!
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:02 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

DeathSauce wrote:
Damon_Gant wrote: Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.
.
Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.
Well I don't see how you can expect people to vote with you then. I don't expect big posts, or PBPA's, I'm rather against those myself. However, just 1 or 2 quotes and a little point in the direction of where we can find the scumminess would go a long way I think (I still may not agree with you, but it'd be nice to see your line of thinking anyway).

I certainly have noticed some of the signs you have mentioned, and indeed, pointed them out already. However, the sign which I don't see is the 'overall sense of scumminess', and that to me, is the most important.
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:06 am

Post by Super Awesome Mega Zord! »

Zodiark13 wrote:@SAMP,
I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?
This relies heavily on your knowledge of how SSK plays as both town and scum, so I dismissed this opinion myself. Even if you have played other games with SSK, what makes you think he's playing differently?[/rhetorical]
I don't believe it relies on meta knowledge of SSK (of which I have none). What it relies on is the general knowledge that most players, as scum, don't take in-thread actions that are
overtly
different than the ones they take as town, since they'd be obvious if they did. Which is why I'm skeptical that his quick GD hop is a scumtell.

Now if someone has meta knowledge to the contrary, that'd certainly change my opinion, but I assume the above by default.

(And before anyone takes that out of context and acts like I'm claiming that there are no scumtells, I'm not. The keyword is "overtly". Scum do leave tells behind, just not consciously.)
My Milked Eek wrote:
Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:
Damon_Gant wrote:SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?
Yes. He still hasn't given any update on his thoughts on GD, which is hypocritical given that he's attacking SSK for making an easy jump off that wagon. And, he clearly saw post 246 (since he quoted my vote) but chose not to answer the question I asked to everyone on the SSK wagon.
I stated reasons on several occasions. I do not see it necessary to state your reasons every time you vote.

And the main reason I jumped to Zodiark is because in my opinion because of his interactions with mafiassk he is the one of the two who must be scum, while mafiassk is independently of zodiark scummy. As I said, zodiark appears to be bussing or pushing an easy lynch, in both cases making him scum pushing a lynch, be it a mislynch or not.
No no no, I'm talking specifically about your unvote of GD. You got on the GD wagon, didn't post for a few days, then when you showed up you didn't say a word about him or his actions during your off-time. That tells me you weren't really interested in determining his alignment.
Damon_Gant wrote:There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.
Well I see where you're coming from. But the thing is, townies also want to look like they're being reasonable. And I don't see why his alignment would change whether he thinks that's it's reasonable.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:27 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:
Damon_Gant wrote:There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.
Well I see where you're coming from. But the thing is, townies also want to look like they're being reasonable. And I don't see why his alignment would change whether he thinks that's it's reasonable.
Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable. That's the whole crux of the issue for me. He supposedly unvoted because he realised that GD had only commited a singular offense, rather than plural. Did that really and truly change his mind about whether he though GD was scum? I can't imagine why it would. This makes me think there was some ulterior motive for his unvote.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:14 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MafiaSSK wrote:For Q1: I didnt go on the offensive because it did not seem to be logically strategical.Just because you did it does not mean I have had to do it as well.
For Q2:Yes, every player base is weak. You can easily distract any set of townies if you allow such distractions to continue. Plus, it is a game people do not have a serious concentration on it. If they have a single distraction that can be proven good, then they'll switch topics in to it.
Follow-up question – How is not questioning someone about a clear mistake not a strategic move? Have you decided a read on me a feel no need to pursue the issue?
MafiaSSK wrote: A. I have not been non-committal in my actions as I have shown in my past few defenses.
I disagree. Here are two examples –

1. You made a reasonable early game vote on the premise that putting someone at L-2. I call you out (incorrectly) that he was at L-4. You immediately unvote instead of bothering to look (which SAMP did a little later) to see if I was correct.
2. You vote for GD. He makes a simple response that addresses that you made a mistake in stating he had a theory instead of theories. This is enough for you to quickly Unvote.

Both of these are very non-committal in my eyes.
Damon_gant wrote: Everyone: Activity now leading up to the deadline would be very nice. Also, I'd like to know who people's second suspicions are, because it seems to me like most of us have only really stated one, and we really ought to let our other feelings out there.
As the deadline approaches I would want to look at PEG or wolframhart, two players who really have been providing little contributions to the thread. Easjo would be another player given that he’s active lurking in my book.

@ Nacho– Could you give us your thoughts the thread so far?

@ easjo682 – Since you no longer are voting who do you find suspicious?

@Greendude – Again since we are approaching deadline and you have an idle vote who do you find suspicious?
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Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:37 am

Post by wolframnhart »

Just as I see someone saying I am not contributing I get ready to post up. I have had a really nasty work schedule lately and have already replaced out of one game and am hoping that helps out, because I hate replacing out. Anyways.

@SMP

reason I can see scumSSK doing the unvote is for a few reasons:
1)Buddying attempt
2)Leaving an easy way to jump back onto a GD wagon with his implication he would vote that way again if GD continued to post theories.
3)WIFOM/Meta, I have only played one game with MafiaSSK (that I recall) but maybe he could say "Have i done that as town in such and such game?"

I don't see a real town reason for the way he voted and unvoted.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:25 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Thoughts on the thread so far?

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! gains scumpoints for assigning reason to a vote with no explanation.

PEG is skating scum.

Zodiark is probably scum for keeping his vote on the SSK wagon and not really pushing it a whole lot, and he's also probably scum for this:
Zodiark wrote: "On my OMGUS point against SSK, my opinion is that OMGUS is OMGUS, even if it is well reasoned."
That's just bad reasoning. OMGUS has never been a particularly strong scumtell in my mind, and if that statement was true, then town v.s. scum is determined by who attacks first. If someone has a bad case against you, then you speak out. That's not OMGUS, friend.
Zodiark wrote: If you see SSK as anti-town, why not a compromise and policy lynch SSK.
This is also scummy.

MME is town for ISO 28.

Unvote, Vote: Zodiark
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:42 pm

Post by Super Awesome Mega Zord! »

Damon_Gant wrote:Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable.
:? If he didn't think it was reasonable then he wouldn't have done it!
wolframnhart wrote:reason I can see scumSSK doing the unvote is for a few reasons:
1)Buddying attempt
2)Leaving an easy way to jump back onto a GD wagon with his implication he would vote that way again if GD continued to post theories.
3)WIFOM/Meta, I have only played one game with MafiaSSK (that I recall) but maybe he could say "Have i done that as town in such and such game?"

I don't see a real town reason for the way he voted and unvoted.
1) I don't see anything in the unvote that looked like he was trying to make buddies with GD.
2) That's not really an easy way to jump back on, since it would require GD to be uncooperative towards a demand backed by the threat of lynch.
As for number 3, I don't even understand what you're getting at. :oops: Could you explain please?

His explanation that he was discouraging anti-town behavior makes the most sense out of everything I've heard so far.
Nachomamma8 wrote:Super Awesome Mega Pimp! gains scumpoints for assigning reason to a vote with no explanation.
:| When did I do that? :|
8-) You can call me Mad Cool Ballin' King! for short. 8-)
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:38 pm

Post by Damon_Gant »

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! wrote:
Damon_Gant wrote:Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable.
:? If he didn't think it was reasonable then he wouldn't have done it!
I disagree with this. Why does SSK as scum have to do things that are reasonable. He just wants to do things that look reasonable, such as unvoting someone after a defense. Of course, if you look at it more carefully, you see that his unvote was completely useless and anti-town.
SAMP wrote:His explanation that he was discouraging anti-town behavior makes the most sense out of everything I've heard so far.
Well it makes absolutely zero sense to me, there was and has been much more anti-town behaviour from the likes of easjo throughout the game. Let's be fair, the reason why he chose to discourage GD, who I don't even think was being anti-town at all, is because there was this juicy wagon that he could add to and maybe get a lynch out of. That's the only way I can see it.

Furthermore, if he was trying to discourage anti-town behaviour, there are plenty of better ways to do it. Keeping the pressure on GD would have taught him a much better lesson. SSK's threat when he came off the wagon was ridiculous, as if GD would actually commit the offense once the game had actually got going. GD only did what he did to get some conversation, that is blatantly obvious.
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:05 pm

Post by Zodiark13 »

Somehow, nacho targeting me doesn't surprise me. I always seem magnetically drawn to the ire of replacements. However, nachos reasons aren't justified.
Zodiark is probably scum for keeping his vote on the SSK wagon and not really pushing it a whole lot,
So I'm scummy because I think someone is scummy?
and he's also probably scum for this:
Zodiark wrote: "On my OMGUS point against SSK, my opinion is that OMGUS is OMGUS, even if it is well reasoned."
That's just bad reasoning. OMGUS has never been a particularly strong scumtell in my mind, and if that statement was true, then town v.s. scum is determined by who attacks first. If someone has a bad case against you, then you speak out. That's not OMGUS, friend.
Hence the reasons I asked.
Zodiark wrote: If you see SSK as anti-town, why not a compromise and policy lynch SSK.
This is also scummy.
How? You can't just call something scummy and not back it up. This also contradicts your point that I'm not pushing for a lynch. I'm trying to persuade others to join.
MME is town for ISO 28.
So the two unreasoned wagon-hops are cleared just because he attempts to give reason for the third?

You can't just replace and then throw things like that around with as poor a reason as this. I'll give you then benefit of the doubt and not FoS you just yet.
My Milked Eek! wrote: A) there's really not a big discussion to be held on whether or not it's omgus, omgus, unlike other things in mafia, is easily distinguishable and this here isn't omgus. Or didn't you read the wiki?
B) saying "do you think this is omgus?" is you doing two things:
B1) you're testing the waters for some mafiassk pushing
B2) you're asking someone else to say it
B3) you're asking someone else to form an opinion for you
Neither of these answers is a good one. And imo, it's #1 (as you've admitted) and some of #2.
Sorry to ruin such a well reasoned arguement, but it relies on the misconception that I want to dismiss his entire defence, or perhapes his vote, as OMGUS. I felt that the underlying resons of his vote was OMGUS, and I asked town for confirmation. At your point B2, only if someone also feels that it is OMGUS. At point B3, no, I want people to influence my already existing opinion, not make one. And if you and SSK are scumbuddies, this could be taken as a chainsaw defence, so I hold little opinion of your opinion of this matter.

*sigh* At this point of the day, defending myself against a case based on 'mudslinging', as you call it, and asking for town opinion is as pointless as the case itself. If you insist on thinking that I am scum, do it tomorrow when you have time to try and convince other people that I am something that I'm not.
MafiaSSK wrote: Expect another large post tomorrow.
Thanks for the warning. *starts building a bomb shelter*

Seriously, what has happened to prompt a post so large it requires a days warning. This screams of "hai guys, im lurking but dont wanna look like it plox :P"

Lastly, I have proof that PEG is lurking. Here is a bit of text from the AIM chat room for MafiaScum.com;
[me]
(3:34:42 PM): hellooo?
omanscum 3:35 pm
(3:35:55 PM): hi
xxxpickemgenius 3:36 pm
(3:36:32 PM): hi
Unless there is another pickemgenius on the site, peg was clearly active enough to post. FoS for him, if I didn't already have one on him
Returning froma spontanious extended sabatical. Posting from an Android with a crappy touch keyboard, so spelling mistakes will occur with wild abandon.

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