Mini 941: (Almost) No Rules Mafia (Game Over)

[Fishythefish]

Frivilous sham accounts with known users have a risk of outing Bananas, Gelid and other serious sham accounts, due to the "5 posts a day" thing. In particular, tnm should not confirm that he is tntnm (if, indeed, he is).

I'm aware I've been doing a lot of IIoA (as has everyone - which is fair enough). That's going to change, tonight.

@Gelid - why did you feel the need to claim tracker today? I don't understand what benefit you felt it had to the town.

[Zang]

Sham? Whatever are you on about??? I take umbrage to that accusation!!! Anyway I agree completely with that devastatingly handsome and totally right TNM, and think you should listen to everything he says! Anyway, I'm off because my wig err I mean real hair itches, bye!

What was the point of you showing up? At the present your justmakimg confusion. Why would tnm be stupid enough to make a sham that looks just like him?

Vote: totallynottotallynotmafia

[CooLDoG]

Another sham!

Gelib-What was the point of you posting? Why couldn't you of just used a coded message on your real account to claim?

unvote, vote zang

Sorry if this seems right off the bat or something but I will explain my vote. Zang started this claim by encrypted post. He wanted the whole town to claim on the fact that no one could tell what role they are, and latter it could be a foolproof method for catching scum (i.e one claimed doc in message, doc was already killed). However, it bugged me from the start claiming so early, even if one doesn't know the exact role. however, one can to some extent know what role someone is. Let me explain...

If I see a crypted message that is only three lines long I know that the role is ether self explainitory, or that he is vanilla and didn't need to post much. This is fine, if we all had 4 line posts. I personally as well as totally not mafia, had rather long role claims this leads to us having more complex roles (powerroles). This is a bastard set up, their are going to be alot of power roles and so forth, and due to the nature of the game, their will be a few complex power role, this is a rather theimed game. Thus any observent scum can more or less pick out who has a complex role or who doesn't. Also what is the inceinteve to claim on d-1? Why should I, eve in an un-read able message tell you what my role is? I don't like claiming on d-1, and I don't like how zang is acting in the above post. Why should you ,as town, care about the fact that he was posting on a sham account. Latter he can give us the key, and we will know what his role is all the same.

This may be un-clear to you, but think about it.

[xvart]

Unless bananas is the scum half, I would think that leaving bananas alive tonight would be a threat to scum (with the possible risk of a rolecop) and might be an obvious NK choice, so it is possible that the scum could take care of the second lynch for us. I suggest we lynch UK, leave bananas alive and unstumped, then decide what to do about bananas tomorrow (weigh any rolecop findings, etc.). If the results are less than satisfying we can either lynch him or treestump him. Either way, our problem is most likely solved.

i am suspicious of any shams that show up imitating or obvious buddy buddy to a real account -- not pro town -- only creates confusion -- remember -- lynch sham means lynch owner --

What was the point of you showing up? At the present your justmakimg confusion. Why would tnm be stupid enough to make a sham that looks just like him?

Vote: totallynottotallynotmafia

I agree 100%. I can't think of one town reason for a post like totallynottotallynotmafias. I suggest you clarify the point or intention of your post.

Once UK treestumps we might consider lynching TNTNM, unless someone can think of a town maneuver in that post. I'll go ahead and place my vote there, but for the record once we come to a consensus on UK I will switch my vote.

Vote: totallynottotallynotmafia

I was wondering when imitating shams might show up. I think it would be prudent to agree that if any shams show up imitating the mod it be auto-lynched

xvart.

[totallynotmafia]

Uhh guys TNTNM is me and it was just a joke, I thought that was pretty obvious...obviously not. Why would you guys jump on the vote without even checking with me first?

[xvart]

Ugh. For the record, I did find the post quite humorous (especially the avatar); but I thought the post was highly distracting. I guess the precedence has been set for future shams.

Unvote: totallynottoallynotmafia

xvart.

[Fishythefish]

CoolDog's attitude to encrypted claims is wrong. Here are some plaintexts for claims:

"Vanilla" - short
"Cop" - short
"[Insert Vanilla role PM here]" - long
"[Insert cop PM here]" - long
"Vanilla. Have some fluff to obscure the length of my role. [Insert the text of Hamlet here]" - long
Now, the first two are different from the second three - and yes, we (I) should have noticed this earlier. In particular, it's possible to tell that a player doesn't have a role that needs a complicated claim. But that's not actually that indicative of how interesting/dangerous/killable a role is.

Also, I started the whole crypto claiming business. I think the benefits are huge - the scum have to decide on their fake claims day 1! The fact that there was a small problem with the process does not mean that it wasn't worth doing. I think overall it's so significantly and clearly protown that opposing it as you are doing is horrible.

I deplore the fact that CD has effectively claimed that he is a PR. Other people who reply to CD, or comment on cryptoclaims in general, should make sure they don't drop similar hints. Long claims can come from complicated PRs, or long role PMs quoted in full, or fluff to deceive people trying to get information. Don't tell anyone which it is.

My vote is on CallMeLiam. I think that his attitudes to Bananas/UK are bad, and I don't believe they are real. The fact that we can't be sure Bananas is town doesn't mean we should assume otherwise (on that basis we'd never do anything). The whole "they could be the same jester" nonsense is nonsense. A few people wanted Bananas stumped a little before CML's post, and he wanted to get rid of a dangerous opponent by harnessing that to get Bananas stumped - thus the jump on the wagon with terrible reasoning.

People who haven't cryptoclaimed (xvart and UK don't need to):
7. Espeonage
8. DedicatedScribe
9. DocPotter
Their next posts should involve a cryptoclaim.

A note on cryptoclaims: if you forget your password, when you are asked to claim you won't be able to.

You will be lynched

. Save your password somewhere safe (notes is a good place). You could forget all about your cryptoclaim for a month, and if you remember one digit wrong it will be nonsense.

[Fishythefish]

I don't understand how not lynching them is getting us two free lynches, we're going to have to lynch them both sometime down the track anyway (barring a successful cop investigation on one of them hint hint), and so I don't understand where the thinking comes from that we get two free lynches out of it. If we lynch them both now I believe what we learn from knowing which one is scum will help us hit scum again more than if we lynch somebody else today.

Sorry, I missed this. It gives us two free lynches in the sense that we get two more lynches than if we don't lynch them. If we win the game barring UK/Bananas (say night kills stop for a few nights), we lynch them both and win. We really can just totally ignore them until the end (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if treestumped players didn't even count towards winning conditions - if we eliminate all the antitown players except treestumps, there's literally no way to lose the game). Except in that they aren't revealed, and they can post (which we can just ignore), it's like they are dead in every way.

Yeah, the information would be nice. But is it worth two lynches (and therefore two nightkill phases) to know for sure that UK is scum? I really, really think not. Suppose we are now in standard 9-3. Then with two nightkills and two lynches, we are in 6-2 with some info. With no nightkills and two treestumps, we are in 8-2 with no info. I really don't think the information we would gain is worth two townies. Similar things apply in multiscum - it's never worth two lynches to find out one scum alignment and one town alignment.

[Zang]

Uhh guys TNTNM is me and it was just a joke, I thought that was pretty obvious...obviously not. Why would you guys jump on the vote without even checking with me first?

There are numerous reasons why tntnm is scummy-

1. It could have been somebodies attempt to frame you using a sham.
2. The account was used with no purpose, this can be confused with trying to confuse the town
3. The account was used as a joke so that you can later claim that it was a joke to take pressure off of you.

And also-

why did you create an account with only a slightly different name and avatar and then say that it was you? You are only allowed one sham, why waste it for a joke by exposing it?

I will unvote you when you answer the above questions.

[UncertainKitten]

Honestly, TNM has done a lot of questionable actions.

Also, I love how ani appears to have disappeared...

And then we of course have bananas...

There's no way it could be this easy...no wait. Is tnm generally a VI?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: *way.

[Espeonage]

Ok can I have that link again sorry. I will do a crypto claim. I have just been away from internet connection for the last two days.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Hoopla ( 0 )
totallynotmafia ( 0 )
UncertainKitten ( 4 ) Hoopla totallynotmafia Espeonage animorpherv1
xvart ( 0 )
animorpherv1 ( 1 ) UncertainKitten
Zang ( 1 ) CooLDoG
Espeonage ( 0 )
DedicatedScribe ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 1 ) CallMeLiam
CallMeLiam ( 2 ) DocPotter FishytheFish
FishytheFish ( 0 )
CooLDoG ( 0 )
Bananas ( 0 )
totallynottotallynotmafia ( 1 ) Zang
Not Voting ( 2 ) DedicatedScribe xvart
Total Votes ( 12 )

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline: Tuesday, March 30th at 16:00 EDT

Just a quick plea that i'm not going to enforce or anything. Please don't do the following:

unvote: Zoraster

Just type

unvote

. I know some mods like that for whatever reason, but I find it confusing when doing my vote counts, and it's messed me up before. If you want to clarify for the players who you're unvoting, do it unbolded, please.

[Fishythefish]

Ok can I have that link again sorry. I will do a crypto claim. I have just been away from internet connection for the last two days.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/jscrypt.html is good. Everyone should do this now:

1. Hit Generate
2. Copy & Paste the Key to somewhere where you won't lose it (preferably notes)
3. Enter your role unambiguously in
   Plain Text
   box (e.g. Vanilla Townie)
4. Hit "Encrypt"
5. Copy & Paste
   Cipher Text
   into thread

So I would end up posting:

##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ ASIAE MUMDL XDCUH QBMTQ VWUCR VEIOI ACJWT DIRWW JGKIV QVQFB
PHQDB FFIQK ONUTV LFLJO FIPIG VGNWP PPNLC QNGJO EBEUA UANWO WBADX
ERBGK USJPQ UMBJJ EOOFP OJOZZ YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

in the thread.

Then, when someone is forced to claim, they post their Key in the thread. To verify a claim, simply copy & paste the above into

Cipher Text

, then copy & paste provided Key (in this case, BXBCN-BHZZR-ZEWBW-LTABK-YGCZX-NGWCX-PUKOJ-CWLHN-KKCDV-GPDIW-OFBVT-DNHOA) and Hit Decrypt. Role should appear in

Plain Text

box.

Note: it's worth padding a short claim with fluff in order to hide the length of your PM. If you are doing this, just put anything you like (should be English though) after your claim before encrypting it. Make sure to keep the exact password somewhere safe.

On a related note, I earlier asked for a precise definition of rolecop. This should not happen until everyone has cryptoclaimed.

@mod:

A prod on DocPotter, please?

[Fishythefish]

@UK: I see tnm neither as particularly scummy nor as VI. On the contrary, I've found him fairly protown, with a couple of good ideas. What are his "lot of questionable actions"?

I kind of agree that ani's disappearance is badly timed and a bit suspect. His not-really-caring attitude to UK/Bananas also sucks.

[xvart]

The more I read UK, the more I am convinced she is the scum MNJoAT. I wish there was someway to 100% confirm this because I do not want to prematurely speculate on the people she is voting/suspecting.

Let's get some more votes on her treestumping NOW.

Everyone that is dragging his feet on the crypto claim is getting highly suspicious; especially Espeonage since the link to the crypto site has been posted at least once and I think quoted one other time before he asked for the link. Added to that his only contribution is a discussion on the color green, his allergy to alcohol, and some promised unfulfilled content. The main question about why someone would simply not look back through the thread for the link to the crypto site and ask for it to be posted again only suggests that he is still trying to formulate a fake claim.

Vote: Espeonage

xvart.

[UncertainKitten]

@UK: I see tnm neither as particularly scummy nor as VI. On the contrary, I've found him fairly protown, with a couple of good ideas. What are his "lot of questionable actions"?

I kind of agree that ani's disappearance is badly timed and a bit suspect. His not-really-caring attitude to UK/Bananas also sucks.

The "Let's Play a Game" thread is a quick way to gain town cred without doing anything. totallynottotallynotmafia was also rather anti-town. I don't really remember anything else of note from him, so a lot was a bad word to use.

[CallMeLiam]

UK, why haven't you treestumped yet?

[UncertainKitten]

Is there a majority on me to treestump? If so I'll do it. If not...well :V.

[xvart]

treestump votes for UK: me, tnm, xvart, UK, Zang (t-2)
treestump votes for Bananas: UK, Zang

As far as I can tell, you are still at T-2. Can I make two sham accounts and vote you over, or will that not count?

xvart.

[Zang]

UK, why haven't you treestumped yet?

If you want UK to treestump why don't you announce it? If you do it will put him at T-1 according to xvart and fish.

[UncertainKitten]

As far as I can tell, you are still at T-2. Can I make two sham accounts and vote you over, or will that not count?

xvart.

Obviously wouldn't count.

In fact, sham account votes should not be accepted period.

If you want UK to treestump why don't you announce it? If you do it will put him at T-1 according to xvart and fish.

See, CML is taking the nice EASY stance of "lol, I'm going to pretend I've committed to having her treestump but won't actually vote it, teehee"

[animorpherv1]

Meh, sure. treestump. both of you.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I'm at T-1.

Also, I enjoy your stance or lack thereof.

[animorpherv1]

Well, I'm at T-1.

Also, I enjoy your stance or lack thereof.

I just want something to happen.