Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[farside22]

2. Not an accusation, more that Farside said that either me or you where scum with Farside, and fmpov, it was you if Farside was correct.

I accused you of being scum will yellow.

[startransmission]

Hold on, why are we lynching Gheb? I haven't seen a point against him that I've agreed with all game.

I don't like Star trying to call a Spring lynch a policy lynch. She posted without adding anything. Straight up active lurking is scummy. No blood on the hands, but posting words.

Unvote, Vote Star

because I did it earlier and it's not showing up on the Vote Count.

Are you kidding? Are you saying there are no better lynches than on somebody (who's been replaced) who contributed almost nothing? How is that not a policy lynch? I would even argue that Spring didn't even actually actively lurk, as some modicum of conveniently timed activity would be required.

I'm struck that you won't let go of my lynch despite the fact that the reason for voting me was already weak, and is now extinct. Your strong defense of Gherbs is also noted. I understand that you don't think he lied, but I don't understand how you can draw a different conclusion.

I don't see it. Looks like he wanted serious discussion over RVS and then looked to the lurkers who were letting things happen while they sat back and watched. Then he voted Spring, who fit that bill.

And again, I find this scummy. For one I personally feel that RVS leads to quality discussion and info. Also, I don't find voting for people who aren't active as a path to "serious discussion". It's true that applying some pressure to quiet players can bring them to life (which didn't work with Spring, which goes back to how she wasn't an "active" lurker) but when no serious discussion arose from Gherbs having the Spring bone in his mouth he didn't really go off looking for "serious discussion" elsewhere. It seems more to me like picking on an easy target, which Spring certainly was.

Allright, I know I made a point about not being lazy, but this weekend is killing me, so I won't be posting with more regularity until later tomorrow. Though I am getting a little worked up, which bodes well for my posting.

[Kmd4390]

Alright, I probably should wait til I sober up, but come on Star. Becuase a player happened to not post so much (Spring), any case on that player absoultutely HAS TO be policy and nothing else becuase it can't be anything BUT A LURKER LUNCH? If that's the way people think, I'm lurking every time I'm scum. Seriously LURKING is NOT a TOWN tell. Spring was a scummy active lurker who posted without giving opinions and NEEDED TO DIE. Being replaced is no more of a town tell than lurking is so I WILL NOT excuse Spring's play as "Omg a lurker got replaced, can't lynch them now".

[farside22]

Alright, I probably should wait til I sober up, but come on Star. Becuase a player happened to not post so much (Spring), any case on that player absoultutely HAS TO be policy and nothing else becuase it can't be anything BUT A LURKER LUNCH? If that's the way people think, I'm lurking every time I'm scum. Seriously LURKING is NOT a TOWN tell. Spring was a scummy active lurker who posted without giving opinions and NEEDED TO DIE. Being replaced is no more of a town tell than lurking is so I WILL NOT excuse Spring's play as "Omg a lurker got replaced, can't lynch them now".

One was a lurker that last I looked had not posted on MS. Isn't that a flake?
Also stat's post with all the null reads wasn't impressive at all but I'm not going to ignore someone outright lying for no reason.

[Kmd4390]

One was a lurker that last I looked had not posted on MS. Isn't that a flake?
Also stat's post with all the null reads wasn't impressive at all but I'm not going to ignore someone outright lying for no reason.

It's not about the flaking. It's that she was scummy (posting while saying nothing) while she was here. Flaking is NOT AT ALL a reason to be like "well, let's ignore Spring as a possible lynch". No. She was scummy and the fact that she flaked afterwards IS NOT a reason to let her live regardless of her play.

And Gheb didn't lie. The negative attention towards Lacey made him feel like he was the ONLY ONE calling Lacey town because he went against popular opinion.

[Col.Cathart]

I'm terribly sorry mod, and all player - please replace me. My comp just got fried recently, and now I have very limited access to Internet (on mu uni library, once, maybe twice a day in breaks between courses, for a several minutes max. maybe for a moment from my friends comp like right now), barely enough for my modded Mini game, definitely not enough for any valuable participation in any game.

I'm really sorry for it, especially considering I just hopped in recently. I hope you'll have a fun game all of you.

[CSL]

I'm terribly sorry mod, and all player - please replace me. My comp just got fried recently, and now I have very limited access to Internet (on mu uni library, once, maybe twice a day in breaks between courses, for a several minutes max. maybe for a moment from my friends comp like right now), barely enough for my modded Mini game, definitely not enough for any valuable participation in any game.

I'm really sorry for it, especially considering I just hopped in recently. I hope you'll have a fun game all of you.

*sigh*...

Number seven. I appreciate the rest of you who haven't replaced out yet.

[CSL]

And, just like that, yawetag replaces in.

[yawetag]

/confirm

unvote

just in case.

I didn't realize we were 20 pages in, so it will take a bit of time to read. I should have a basic idea sometime tonight, though.

[startransmission]

Alright, I probably should wait til I sober up, but come on Star. Becuase a player happened to not post so much (Spring), any case on that player absoultutely HAS TO be policy and nothing else becuase it can't be anything BUT A LURKER LUNCH? If that's the way people think, I'm lurking every time I'm scum. Seriously LURKING is NOT a TOWN tell. Spring was a scummy active lurker who posted without giving opinions and NEEDED TO DIE. Being replaced is no more of a town tell than lurking is so I WILL NOT excuse Spring's play as "Omg a lurker got replaced, can't lynch them now".

I'm really drunk, and shouldn't be posting, but I have to place a marker here . I'm going to address this in a few hours (after I sleep this off) but in the meantime, please, give me a case on Spring other than a lack of activity. And when did I say lurking was a town tell?

[The Quintastic One]

I find it very ridiculous that KMD doesn't believe Gheb to be lying, when it's so very obvious that he's been caught in at least two congruent lies between myself and Farsides analysis. Which makes Gheb's lynch infinitely harder since you have a very pro-town player like KMD fighting against it.

I think Gheb needs to defend Gheb and that if KMD has stronger evidence that we should lynch Startransmission first, then he needs to convince us of THAT lynch. Not discouraging us from a lynch that unless he somehow miraculously is scum with Gheb, has no place stepping in and allowing Gheb to not have to defend himself.

[Kmd4390]

I'm really drunk, and shouldn't be posting, but I have to place a marker here . I'm going to address this in a few hours (after I sleep this off) but in the meantime, please, give me a case on Spring other than a lack of activity. And when did I say lurking was a town tell?

If you read Spring's posts, she takes a back seat on every issue. She asks questions about what is happening WITHOUT giving her own input.

And you didn't say lurking was a town tell specifically. But people seem to be excusing Spring's play as basically "a lurker, let's find other targets" which is ridiculous. If a player is scummy, I prefer to lynch them.

----------------------

TQO, there is a MASSIVE difference between lying and being wrong. I'm pretty sure Gheb honestly believed what he was saying. How would it benefit him AT ALL to so blatantly lie about something that would be so easily found out? Gheb is better than that. He wouldn't screw up like that.

[farside22]

One was a lurker that last I looked had not posted on MS. Isn't that a flake?
Also stat's post with all the null reads wasn't impressive at all but I'm not going to ignore someone outright lying for no reason.

It's not about the flaking. It's that she was scummy (posting while saying nothing) while she was here. Flaking is NOT AT ALL a reason to be like "well, let's ignore Spring as a possible lynch". No. She was scummy and the fact that she flaked afterwards IS NOT a reason to let her live regardless of her play.

And Gheb didn't lie. The negative attention towards Lacey made him feel like he was the ONLY ONE calling Lacey town because he went against popular opinion.

1st: stat is here so why only focas on spring
2nd: did you become physic since the last game and know what is going through a players mind and I missed it?

[Kmd4390]

1st: stat is here so why only focas on spring

Spring is the one who was scummy.

2nd: did you become physic since the last game and know what is going through a players mind and I missed it?

No, I'm just good.

[farside22]

1st: stat is here so why only focas on spring

Spring is the one who was scummy.

2nd: did you become physic since the last game and know what is going through a players mind and I missed it?

No, I'm just good.

fos: kmd

[yellowbunny]

CSL: I know Gheb hasn't exceeded his 72 hour window, but would you consider proding him anyway? Most of this conversation is hinging around him, and I'd like to hear what he has to say.

@KMD: What is your opinion of Gheb's speculation on scum strategies (I pointed out 2 examples in my last post)?

[Max]

Well I was just about to make a case about Col.Cathart/Lacey after reading people in ISO yet he's being replaced again. I would probably advocate his lynch regardless.

Other ISOs that I'm not liking:

Farside22 - not as pushing with the questions as normal.
startransmission - though has only just started the game also.

In response to people attacking my ancestors I'll go through again and see whether there is anything I can do to defend them.

On another note, I haven't found Gheb to be any more scummy than most games I've read of his. Though I'll read him in context.

This is basically all I have time for. I only managed to do ISO reads today so I'll do all player read tomorrow. Then go through and analyse properly and make a case.

[yellowbunny]

Other ISOs that I'm not liking:

Farside22 - not as pushing with the questions as normal.
startransmission - though has only just started the game also.

Can you please elaborate?

[farside22]

Farside22 - not as pushing with the questions as normal.

What game are you reading? Seriously you have got to be joking since I have been more vocal, question and commenting then most (except kmd). I took a couple of days away from here do to the lacey/me blow out and with word that CSL was looking to mod kill me I had to get that worked out to find out why.

[CSL]

Gheb = Prodded

Votecount = incoming

[farside22]

Mod: Not sure if this had been done. Please prod The Longing

[CSL]

Flavor

Col.Cathart's podium gives way, as soon as he asked for a replacement. You can hear the crack of bodies down there. yawetag takes his place. Suddenly, two podiums grew 3 degrees brighter. Everyone, including Maemuki, who was silently staring into nothingness, seemed to be interested in the light...

The 8 days until deadline votecount

kmd4390 (L-7)
Max (L-6) DTMaster
farside22 (L-7)
Sando (L-7)
The Quintastic One (L-7)
Gheb (L-4) The Quintastic One, farside22, startransmission
startransmission (L-4) Gheb, TheLonging, kmd4390
DTMaster (L-7)
yellowbunny (L-7)
yawetag (L-5) Max, Sando
TheLonging (L-7)
JacobSavage (L-7)

Not voting: Everyone else

With 12 alive, 7 will lynch

Deadline: Monday, March 29th, 2010. 8pm EST.

~ indicates the wagon that will resolve at deadline
TheLonging will be prodded

[Sando]

I would even argue that Spring didn't even actually actively lurk, as some modicum of conveniently timed activity would be required.

What do you call 211? It has context, shows a lack of effort in keeping up with the thread, and shows no commitment to a viewpoint.

[DTMaster]

@Farside
1. Doh' Forgot to answer the question in my post. I must be tired. Anyways how I would have handled the Foin situation in Foin's shoes when KMD voted me when he said he was "serious"

1. I would have asked for the case.
2. I would have also known that this is RVS stage and a comment like that was meant to generate discussion. 1-2 pages in does not generate enough content to present a case. Hence: an attack is ok, however RVS attacks are common and is a great starting point.

Foin chose to vote KMD, and started from there. I would have shrugged it off and moved on with my RVS vote, or a wagon vote to start the game off. Either way: KMD/Foin launched the game off somewhere, and we are here.

@Star
No I disagree with you since Spring showed signs of active lurking. Spring was obviously reading up because of this post:

Farside, what do you feel about the KMD/Lacey deal? It's very curious to me that you would still continue you case on her after it happened because I think something like that is very likely to polarize town's read on her.

I think she's been giving off very strong scum vibe before the trade offer, but has gone back to more or less neutral with her position on Kmd. And think Kmd looks the more scummy for it so it's curious to me that you would pursue her so.

Spring lukring is anti town. This post is scummy though. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=200 in post 211 was made

after the Lacey issue was dropped and KMD stated: Lacey was town and Farside wanted to drop the argument

This post is very, very scummy because does feel like Spring wanted to backtrack and reignite the argument all over again. To me, this reads as active lurking because Spring showed that: She's been reading in the time where she hasn't posted.

@KMD
1. The lie was more: taking credit for something you did?

@TQO

He continues to claim that he was the first to go against the Lacey wagon, which is super false. He also claims that he was the first person to suspect Spring and Goro, that the town later agreed with. Which is also false. But even if it were true “Congratulations! You have become suspicious of two lurkers! Hurray!” He also claims that he was the first to say that Lacey should not be lynched, which is also, super false.

I should do a reread right now but the question I find asking my self

Has Gheb been consistent in his stance with Goro/Spring/Lacey

I agree with this post:

Can you explain to me the difference between why you think he's a liar, rather than just exaggerating? That's the big thing preventing me from being confident in my vote.

This requires a quick skim of the Lacey wagon and Gheb's post early on. Gut says: something is off here.

@Max
Omg. Post god damn it. My vote/case is stalling on you. This feels like the spring case all over again.

@Jacob
1. Meta aw.
2. Ugh. I don't like your gross logic. Yes you were answering a question, no it wasn't helpful because rather then discus if X was scum is A or B buddies with him? You should scum hunt the scummy people. It's a pitfall to assign teammates like that. Take Londonfoggy town where we had an amazing case that created: confirmation bias on scum. We nailed one of them, but the other one got away after some initial pressuring. I believe the wolves in that game did an endgame busing manevour that won the game in the end. (Game link in my wiki)

@Mod

Prod Max. This isn't funny.

[The Quintastic One]

Well I was just about to make a case about Col.Cathart/Lacey after reading people in ISO yet he's being replaced again. I would probably advocate his lynch regardless.

Other ISOs that I'm not liking:

Farside22 - not as pushing with the questions as normal.
startransmission - though has only just started the game also.

In response to people attacking my ancestors I'll go through again and see whether there is anything I can do to defend them.

On another note, I haven't found Gheb to be any more scummy than most games I've read of his. Though I'll read him in context.

This is basically all I have time for. I only managed to do ISO reads today so I'll do all player read tomorrow. Then go through and analyse properly and make a case.

So you effectively have suspicions of the two most pro-town players this game, and the easy lynch (Startransmission). While you don't believe one of the scummiest players is scummy. There's no proof that you've done an ISO on anyone, and just reading someone's posts while not sharing your thoughts on their actions with the rest of the town isn't going to help anyone. THEN you're going to go through and analyze the thread properly and make a case? On who? For what? So many unanswered questions, more spring up, and you've effectively added nothing to the conversation.

FoS Max.

And KMD, you telling me that "you're good" and that's the reason why you believe Gheb not to be lying is by far not good enough testimony. It seems that you're just grasping at straws for the Spring case, when it would probably be wiser to keep the Spring case as a note right now. Then to observe the actions of Startransmission from now on and see if you still can shake a scum read or whether Star validates your suspicions. Farside is right, we can use additional pressure on lurkers later. Right now we need to get our cards together and decide what we need to do in order to score a royal flush...../card joke.