Mini 941: (Almost) No Rules Mafia (Game Over)

[totallynotmafia]

Well if the night actions aren't retained that makes things a bit different I suppose, in that case UK should go ahead and stump herself.

Then we have to weigh up whether it's better to not stump Bananas hoping that he is telling the truth and can utilise his night actions to try and prove that he is town, or to not take the risk of him being scum and stump him so that he can't utilise the scum powers. If we decide not to lynch either UK or Bananas today then I think it would be a good idea for them to reveal the town versions actions, as scum will most likely find out about them at night anyway, and it might help us in our decision on whether or not to stump Bananas.

I must say though I still think lynching both as soon as possible is the best move to give us information, because it seems as though you learn a lot more from a scum lynch than a townie lynch, and if we lynch someone else there is a good chance they will be a townie, whereas we have a guaranteed scum lynch within the next two days and we can then get information from that based on who was siding with who etc. If it wasn't for the (what is hopefully) unbiased opinions of at least one person in the MD thread that stumping is a better move then lynching then I would definately be saying that we should just be lynching at this point. I'm open to all ideas though given I don't have any experience with roles outside the more normal ones.

If we do allow Bananas the chance to prove his allignment tonight and he fails, then we absolutely have to stump him tomorrow. It would be ludicrous to allow someone with a 50% chance to be scum to continue in the game with the possible scum powers.

Of the above:
- xvart I'm inclined to think was a misunderstanding. I also like his claim - although I'm wary of the same role, with mafia, who get something if we post the word (say a kill). If things go well otherwise, we should probably kill xvart by starving him of words.

From here on, the decision to give xvart his word should be a consensus one

.

I've been thinking about it and I think there's a way we can prove he is town. If that role was given to mafia then I think it's pretty safe to say that his fellow scum wouldn't be able to say the words, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of the role as they would already know them. Thus if each day we get only whoever is about to be lynched to say the word, if that person flips scum and xv survives then I think we can safely conclude that he is town. Anyone who hammers without allowing the person to say the word will be really scummy in my eyes.

[totallynotmafia]

EBWOP: I don't know why, but I think UK is bananas.

As Fish said that doesn't really make sense because Zoraster announced that both people had chosen in the thread. The only way I can see UK being Bananas is if she is a jester with the ability to make the mod say things in the thread, in which case she is a freaking genius with one of the best claims ever and I take my hat off to her.

It seems to me ani like you're trying to delay a UK lynch, and UK's vote seems like major distancing:

Unvote, Vote ani

How nice to be indifferent when, you know, you SHOULD commit to a stance that could have SOME bearing on your scumminess depending on how I and bananas eventually flip.

UK if you're town you should be voting for nobody but Bananas, seeing as they would be definately scum.

FOS: ani

[UncertainKitten]

UK if you're town you should be voting for nobody but Bananas, seeing as they would be definately scum.

It's clear my vote is going to return to bananas at some point. Further, if we are both going to treestump (possible), I'd rather catch mr. scummy apathy I don't want to commit to protecting my scumbuddy.

Anyway, I am known for weird fake claims despite only doing it once . But, no, I claimed my role as real. I wish I had played it better since I look like I'm in terrible shape now.

Could you bold your preference, tnm, as me and Fishy asked?

[xvart]

And...CML, I'm gonna have to say that bananas is UK conspiracy theory is pretty stupid. All it achieves is getting me lynched/treestumped. That's not desirable as

either

alignment unless I have outted the other MJoAT. In which case I'm still of the opinion both of us should die. So, what motivation would I have for acting like my counterpart in such a way that gets me lynched?

Although I agree that the jester idea is very unlikely, isn't the point of the jester to get him/herself lynched?

Thus if each day we get only whoever is about to be lynched to say the word, if that person flips scum and xv survives then I think we can safely conclude that he is town. Anyone who hammers without allowing the person to say the word will be really scummy in my eyes.

Works for me.

If Bananas's real account in NK'd, he will flip MNSJOAT, so we will know. The only reason to treestump him today is to prevent him using a night power (and for me, that risk is outweighed by his likely use of a protown night power).

You're right. I was thinking no reveal at all instead of no alignment reveal. Scratch my previous comments.

[/b]Unvote: Bananas[/b]

You don't get treestumping, do you? It removes a player from the game, in all ways but their posts. Effectively, they are dead. So we don't need to lynch treestumped scum, and saving yourself by treestumping is pointless as scum.

We could always agree to have UK treestump, then lynch her anyways by revoting her, right? Treestumping would essentially confirm the role. Another question is if Bananas treestumps, I assume that would mean Bananas real account would be unable to vote, too. We could then just watch the vote count and see whose vote resets or ask everyone to vote and whoever doesn't is Bananas; but I'm not sure if that is a good idea, yet.

I am of the opinion that UK should definitely treestump.

I am still deciding if we should force bananas to treestump, too.

xvart.

[xvart]

Dammit.

Unvote: Bananas

xvart.

[UncertainKitten]

Although I agree that the jester idea is very unlikely, isn't the point of the jester to get him/herself lynched?

The mod confirmed selection thing leads me to believe that the jester thing is impossible.

Whatever, you all sort it out. Ani needs to die sometime unless he magically becomes not scummy. Bananas should be handled with the treestumpery.

[animorpherv1]

@TNM:

Take it how you want, although that's not the way I meant it.

[Zang]

I may be V/LA for a couple of days

Im having computer problems

[Zang]

Nevermin, i fixed it

[totallynotmafia]

UK should treestump immediately

I'm still going to vote for her afterwards as I think that's the best plan of action, but at least this will get things moving.

Reading back I've just noticed a possible connection that someone was hinting at, which is making me think that allowing Bananas to have a night action tonight in an effort to prove himself could be okay. As I said before if he fails this then then he should be lynched tomorrow.

Espeonage, DocPotter, CoolDoG and DedicatedScribe all need to do the cryptoclaim (it seriously takes less than five minutes) as well as post more in general.

[CooLDoG]

alright, my claim.

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sorry for no post... one latter today...

[Fishythefish]

Things:
@UK: sure, wait for a majority to treestump.
@tnm: you advocate lynches on UK and Bananas. Regardless of what we think of their alignments, I disagree. I'm prepared to treat UK as very likely scum for the purposes of analysis, but even if I wasn't I'd much rather have both treestumped than lynched. I see it as pretty much giving the town two free lynches - even if we are left wondering who was town.
I want to know the town powers. The scum will know them tonight (barring a correct lynch on UK/Bananas), and they will help us in our decision. I think we need to know them to make an informed decision on Bananas's stumping - whether he has a power worth using tonight, and whether he is confirmable. Unless he is confirmable, I find it extremely unlikely I won't want him stumped tomorrow.

The point on xvart is good thinking. A scum wordsmith whose buddies could say the words would be misleading to the point of bastardly. Definitely a good plan to have buddies say the words.

On the other hand, it could be that the power that derives from xvart's words isn't life - it could be a night action (even a kill). In which case scum saying the words still wouldn't do anything, but we wouldn't see that. Still, the plan is worth trying, and I see no downside. We will have to be careful - don't want scum quickselfhammering before saying the words to kill off xvart.

People who haven't yet cryptoclaimed need to do so asap. Takes 2 minutes, no reason not to do it as town, has the potential to seriously hurt the scum.

treestump votes for UK: me, tnm, xvart, UK, Zang (t-2)
treestump votes for Bananas: UK, Zang

[Bananas]

This is my 4th post of 5 today. The last one will be saved for emerging events or a last plea. I'll have to ask others to speak for me after this.

I’ve been thinking about it, and I may as well tell you my abilities. UK’s team will know anyway, I can’t see it helping any other scum that much, and I want an informed decision for the town. My powers are not confirmable as different from scumJOATs. Aside from treestump, I have rolecop and jailkeep (each one shot). In my opinion, rolecop is a strong power, and jailkeep is thoroughly meh. I intend to use rolecop tonight. Having done that, I’m quite happy to treestump tomorrow. Obviously I’d rather stick around and vote off the scum, but I can see that it’s a fairly big risk for the town, and I don’t expect you to take it. So, all that remains is to set out why I am town, and therefore why you should let me live today:
Imagine you get the role PM that UK revealed. Then imagine that, within the 48 hours, UK claims MNSJOAT who has picked town, and that you also pick town (as you know I did – see UK’s pm claims). Now, imagine you turn out to be scum. What do you do?

If you don’t claim, UK is practically confirmed. You are forced to kill her that night (easy and safe – she’s macho). Then you are alive, with the powers Ninja, Tracker, Rolecop, and Roleblock. How do you feel?
If you claim, what odds do you have of surviving untreestumped for two days? How much damage can you do in that time? What are your odds of surviving until endgame? How do you feel?
I'd like anyone who thinks it's likely I'm scum to think very hard about those questions. The answers are not very difficult, and show that I'm very likely town.

On the surface, it looks like there is an element of WIFOM to this. But there really isn’t. Scum in my position could use a claim to convince the town they are town. But even then, I’d expect to have treestumped by the end of day 2. Even if the town are pretty sure I’m real, I’d still be in a better position as scum if I’d stayed quiet.

Really, there is no scum motivation for what I’ve done. It’s implausible that I’d do as much good for the scum with this strategy as I would if I were a hidden scum JOAT. I think that from your point of view, it’s worth risking the unlikely event that I’m scum and get to rolecop for the likely event that I’m town and get to rolecop.

[UncertainKitten]

Two words.

Other rolecops.

Not necessarily a high order probability, but your lynch would be secured were you ever rolecopped. I can probably come up with other ways to make claiming viable if I thought about it hard enough.

[DedicatedScribe]

I'm sorry. I've been relatively uninterested in this game. Still, it looks like fun, and I'm going to make one last effort to get into it before I request subbing.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

I'll have content by Wednesday, no matter what.

[gelid]

i am town tracker. my role says:

-- when you track someone, you will see who, if anyone, that player visited that night or the previous day -- any action that targets a player will get a result -- some roles may visit more than one player a night --

i will code this so my real account can claim ownership

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##### End encrypted message

see you tomorrow ^^

[Zang]

Another sham!

Gelib-What was the point of you posting? Why couldn't you of just used a coded message on your real account to claim?

[totallynotmafia]

@tnm: you advocate lynches on UK and Bananas. Regardless of what we think of their alignments, I disagree. I'm prepared to treat UK as very likely scum for the purposes of analysis, but even if I wasn't I'd much rather have both treestumped than lynched. I see it as pretty much giving the town two free lynches - even if we are left wondering who was town.

I don't understand how not lynching them is getting us two free lynches, we're going to have to lynch them both sometime down the track anyway (barring a successful cop investigation on one of them hint hint), and so I don't understand where the thinking comes from that we get two free lynches out of it. If we lynch them both now I believe what we learn from knowing which one is scum will help us hit scum again more than if we lynch somebody else today.

How does a rolecop differ from a normal cop? I'm guessing you learn the role, but do you learn the allignment as well? If so I'm thinking that we should give Bananas the benefit of the doubt considering his play so far and that we should allow him to use his rolecop tonight. If he fails to find scum we lynch him tomorrow (or at least stump if you guys can't agree on the lynch). If he hits scum then we spare him tomorrow and give him another chance to hit scum the next night. Every night he manages to find scum we should allow him another chance but if he doesn't we should lynch him (in case he is scum and he sacrifices a scum member the first night in order to try and confirm that he is town). At its worst if he is scum then he only gets one chance to find the role of a townie, and I think that is a reasonable risk given the possible reward if he is town.

[totallynotmafia]

Uhh gelid, if you are town then that was a really silly way to claim. I'm not going to point out why, but let me make it clear that DS, DP and Espeonage still need to claim.

[totallynottotallynotmafia]

Deleted because I got the message with who the sham account was AFTER the post went up. Please be careful to respect this rule.

[totallynottotallynotmafia]

Sham? Whatever are you on about??? I take umbrage to that accusation!!! Anyway I agree completely with that devastatingly handsome and totally right TNM, and think you should listen to everything he says! Anyway, I'm off because my wig err I mean real hair itches, bye!

[UncertainKitten]

Role cops get the role of whoever they target, hence why you see them more often on scum. In my games they tend to get alignment as a side effect of how I format Role PMs.

Actually, that's a decently confirmable role if another role is willing to out themself.

[gelid]

zang -- because i can now communicate openly with townsfolk -- no fear of retribution by mafia --

thm -- because i claimed on a sham does not mean i have not or will not encrypted claim on my real account -- the encrypted message does not have any role related information in it -- it is a short sentence so i can claim ownership as necessary by providing the key --

here is a second key so any other shams that show up claiming to be me will have to provide the key to this code -- if they cannot then lynch --

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i am suspicious of any shams that show up imitating or obvious buddy buddy to a real account -- not pro town -- only creates confusion -- remember -- lynch sham means lynch owner --

^^

[Espeonage]

Sorry I was away. i have little time now so I will look at this properly tomorrow.

[Fishythefish]

Two words.

Other rolecops.

Not necessarily a high order probability, but your lynch would be secured were you ever rolecopped. I can probably come up with other ways to make claiming viable if I thought about it hard enough.

I think it's fairly clear that the chance of Bananas being rolecopped, or caught in some other fairly rare investigative way, doesn't outweigh the benefits of not claiming. It comes down to this: either Bananas is town, or he is an idiot. He doesn't strike me as an idiot.

@Bananas, UK: please request mod clarification on "rolecop". Does it reveal alignment?