Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[xRECKONERx]

Hmm.

But you're obviously aware of your own scum meta, which means you could be playing against it.

[Zachrulez]

Hmm.

But you're obviously aware of your own scum meta, which means you could be playing against it.

Yeah, that's so weak. I was aware of it in those games too.

None of this changes the fact that you lied about my play though.

[Zachrulez]

Which compels me to summarize your continued pressure of me.

You: "I've never seen you vote hop like this before."

me: Oh yeah? What about this game? (Which you played with me.)

"Well you've never vote hopped this quickly this early in the game." (Backtracking, and arguing meta you haven't personally witnessed.)

I then compare my scum meta to my town meta, and you demand links, which I provide.

Then... "Oh, well your aware of your meta, so you can just be playing against it."

Never mind the fact that your entire reasoning for voting me was based on meta that was an OUTRIGHT lie, and that you're now trying to beat the point home by using my awareness of my meta as some kind of proof that the behavior is still scummy.

......... *blink*

[flinter]

flinter, why no vote yet?

I really dislike "pure" random votes. I like to have some reasoning, no matter how weak, to use before I vote. I think works better then a vote that is purely random, as nobody can ask you thinks about that.

The reason why I don't yet have a vote out, is because I haven't really read into the game yet. I have read the game, but nothing really stood out. So I would need a good read of the game first.

I find xreck to be inproductive. Voting for votehopping is not so great, asking for games and then saying the person clearly is concious about his scumplay, is almost setting someone up. But this doesn't have to be done by scum, and I think it is "bad" play.

[ekiM]

xRx, had you seen Zach jumping votes a lot as scum, and not so much as town? How many games are you basing this on? If no or not many... how is that a basis for a vote?

[xRECKONERx]

Basing this off of one game. That I didn't really remember.

And an ongoing, but I won't talk about the game or my suspicions here.

[ekiM]

I've never seen him hop around this much.

You keep changing what you're saying. Happy with my vote.

[VP Baltar]

"What the fuck is

that

thing?" I asked him, reaching down to help him up. But he scuttled away again; and then he hissed at me.

"

You

know what it is!" he whimpered. "You filthy murdering

pig

!"

"What?" I said. "Are you crazy?" Then I jumped down on him and grabbed his foot so I could bring him a little closer. He uttered another sharp, terrified cry as I slid him across the smooth floor and pulled his ankle up to where it was right in front of my eyes.

---

Vote Count 1-3

:

xRECKONERx ~ L-3 (hohum, Debonair Danny DiPietro, kyle99, ekiM)

ekiM ~ L-5 (Locke Lamora, ortolan)
flinter ~ L-5 (Percy, Zachrulez)
Zachrulez ~ L-6 (Vi)
kyle 99 ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)
hohum ~ L-6 (Sotty7)

Not Voting: flinter

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is March 31 at roughly 3 p.m. (GMT -4).

[Vi]

"Topic Does Not Explode, Vi Calls For Headline", end quote.

Vi, are you going to be posting `in character' all game?

"Questioned Avoids Direct Answer; Blanket-Replies 'Deal With It'", end quote.

If there is anything you don't understand, ask before you accuse.

---

I still don't think both of {Zach, hohum} are being genuine.
Zach playing activity police 24 hours after a game starts is pretty ludicrous, and hohum attacking me for flavor is laughable.

flinter seems to be playing similarly to what I would expect from her personality.
Mike backward (which is surprisingly difficult to type) is pinging my intuition for making posts that don't really do anything except validate his inertia.

Unvote: Zachrulez
Vote: ekiM

(L-4)
"Shred Guy Beaten Up For Vote That Really Isn't That Implausible", end quote.

@mod: xRx is voting for Zachrulez

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

xRecx’s arguments with Zach are just an absolutely ridiculous contrivance. Frankly I don’t know why scum would essentially call for votes as he did in his opening vote other than WIFOM, but his arguments have been bad enough since then that I’m pleased with my vote.

Really don’t care for flinter’s behavior so far. Too much socializing, no firm opinions and no votes.

I think Zach looks town so far though it looks like he needs to maybe settle down a little bit.

I’m frankly enjoying the hell out of the style Vi is putting into her posts.

[hohum]

Vi: are you under some sort of post restriction?

[ortolan]

^^ certainly looks like it to me

I actually like most of the early game posts, I actually see little of scumminess from either Vi or Zach. Also, hohum's frustration with Vi also reads as genuine (although I do think he can fake this as scum, I've seen him become flustered before as scum talking to townie before so maybe this point doesn't carry as much weight as I'd thought).

Reckoner's reason for voting Zach is massively weak. Reck claims he effectively doesn't vote hop around as much when he's town; and then when Zach says he in fact does, and links to games to prove such, reckoner dismisses it as "WIFOM". You can't dispute an argument as WIFOM when it counters the whole foundation of your argument.

Vote: Reckoner

I'm also either neutral on or dislike all of Locke Lamora's posts thus far.

[Sotty7]

Lot of vote-hopping early on here, Zach. Is this normal for you?

Is Zach scummy to you? What do you think of Vi? Some opinions from you would be nice.

The reason why I don't yet have a vote out, is because I haven't really read into the game yet. I have read the game, but nothing really stood out. So I would need a good read of the game first.

I find xreck to be inproductive. Voting for votehopping is not so great, asking for games and then saying the person clearly is concious about his scumplay, is almost setting someone up. But this doesn't have to be done by scum, and I think it is "bad" play.

Okay, you say nothing has stood out to you, only to go on and say what stood out to you..? You also seem to paint reck as scummy while giving him an excuse for his play. What is your read of reck right now? I also think it is a reach to say nothing stands out so far. For only being 4 pages into the game, I'd say there is plenty to comment on.

Not liking Vi's vote on ekiM. I'm not following the logic here, seems to be actively avoiding hohum.
Reck's pressure on Zach is bad. Demanding he provide scum meta only to push it away when provided. Doesn't compute, why ask in the first place?
Zach feels town to me right now and I liked Triple D's last post.

[flinter]

I find recks action antitown, but not scummy. So I have a neutral read on him. And that is the problem with most that I could comment on.

If I was really reaching for a conclusion, I would call zachs town: votehopping is almost never scummy, but it is good to show what you are thinking. If he didn't do this in previous games, this towntell gets stronger: he is rather using his vote for information discussion etc, then trying to find a good excuse for a vote whenever he votes (that would generally mean that he would vote less)

But, the use of votes is mostly a playstyle thing, so it isn't really a great tell. Random votes don't tell me a thing, tbh. VI's play is ok, but I think that is expected from him. Reck has already been named, and Hohum is quite unreadable for me at the moment.

So I'm trying to investigate, but there is nothing scummy that stands out for me yet. It would also help if I got to know some of the players better.

if you are scum, and someone makes a point against you that is quite ridiculous, what do you do:

A calmly explain why it is ridiculous.
B call that person a moron, etc.
C something else (please explain what you would do)

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote

.

Yeah, my case on zach was pretty damn awful. But there's not much to go on to get the game rolling this early on. Either lynch me for it or let's start looking elsewhere.

[Zachrulez]

Reckoner, what are your thoughts on Vi, Sotty, Hohum, Flinter, (Ect.)?

[flinter]

Zach, I know reck a bit already, but would you please answer that question? I don't think I have played with you before.

[xRECKONERx]

Vi

: Play so far is reminiscent of town-Vi, not scum-Vi.

Sotty7

: Very "fence-sitty", can't seem to land on one side or the other. iso 3 re: Vi's attack on hohum is kind of like "well you could be right. maybe. but you could be wrong. maybe I'm right? who knows?" and meanders around without ever taking a stance one way or the other but she winds up throwing down a vote anyway? Then she goes on to join the popular opinion on my pressuring of zach. Blegh.

hohum

: Very little there content wise so far, and playing a bit

too

aggressively for my taste... then again I'm not sure if this is standard hohum fare.

flinter

: I get a gut town vibe here. Her posts seem earnest in trying to scumhunt.

[ekiM]

The thing with Reckoner is he made his first non-arbitrary vote with a no-good reason and even when corrected keeps trying to insinuate Zach's up to no good based on... nothing. Not great.

He takes it all back now he's getting heat... but doesn't offer any more thoughts on anything. I think enough has been said to start scumhunting. Get to it.

My vote's still on xRx for now.

---

I don't know if flinter is usually this timid. She needs to start taking stances and asking real questions.

---

Hey Locke, in TSQ's thread about the RVS you said:

I think games would stall much less if all the players had this kind of mindset from the start. I'll certainly be taking a more active stance in not letting players get away with 'random' actions.

Have you done much of that so far this game?

State your suspicions.

[ekiM]

Oh, cross-post.

Reck, how exactly is Vi playing like town rather than scum? How many times have you seen her play?

Any actual suspicions yet?

---

flinter, if the bold was a question directed at everyone, my answer is that I'd usually explain why the attack made no sense, and also try to gauge if they were serious or not, and what was motivating them. If I thought it was truly dumb I'd ignore it, unless they stuck with it.

How does this question help you find scum? Are you asking it for the sake of asking? Any suspicions yet?

[Zachrulez]

Zach, I know reck a bit already, but would you please answer that question? I don't think I have played with you before.

I want to say I'd try to ignore it, but it really would depend on the situation.

[flinter]

oh, sorry, yes that was a question for everyone. Thank you for answering.

How this helps me? I like to know if someone is usually arguing with a calm mind, or if that person has the habit of being more extreme in his/her opinions. On this moment, I have no suspicions.

One thing that I notice in your answer: you answered it for the town point of view. Did you miss that I wanted to know about your scum-play? (you don't need to answer for your scumplay now, I know enough)

[xRECKONERx]

@ekiM: I've seen Vi play as both, and I think she tends to be a bit more cautious/reserved when scum. She's kinda just letting it fly here without any thought of "Oh shit, will this get me flak/get my lynched?" Basically, when I've seen Vi-scum, she flies under the radar, something Vi is not doing here.

As far as actual suspicions, I'd have to say

Vote: Sotty7

. Thanks for reminding me.

[Sotty7]

Fence sitting? I don't think so. But to be more clear for you Reck my top three at the moment is hohum, you and Locke. flinter is creeping her way up there. I have no idea why you have a gut town read on her, I could understand a newbie read.

My answer to your question flinter is a, a calm approach. Unless it becomes increasingly stupid and I start to lose my temper over a period of time. I would say that is true of both my town and scum play though.

Gonna answer your own question?

[flinter]

you mean I missed one? I did say what I thought about reck.

Or did you mean my own question?