Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[farside22]

DizzyIzzyB13- FeFiFoFum (L-10)
VasudeVa- scotmany12, dahill1 (L-7)
scotmany12- springlullaby, iamausername, inHimshallibe (L-8)
Springlullaby- DizzyIzzyB13 (L-10)
dahill1- Anon, Ksun482, Thestatusquo, RichardGHP, VasudeVa (L-6)
Richard Massive- theopor_COD (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, Shanba (L-9)
FeFiFoFum - Korts (L-10)
Korts - Quagmire (L-10)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Not Voting:

ImmuneShadow
Richard Massive
Mipe

[scotmany12]

Actually, I was referring to the whole "being worthless" part, but townies with attidutes like his generally don't help the town. Hence the IGMEOY.

Generally people use IGMEOY on people they think might be scum. And you never answered my question. Why are you voting for dahill? You never explained your vote.

[VasudeVa]

Forgot to respond to this part. Why are you ignoring part of what I said? You say you have read games. So why do you think its a good idea to have someone claim? As someone who has read ten games, you would know pushing people to randomly claim is not protown.

Pretty sure I explained this a few pages ago.

[DeathNote]

~Back! Thanks Farside for taking over!

ImmuneShadow has requested replacement.~

[Shanba]

can we get a prod on theo?

on mipe:

Ive already highlighted his exchange with me, but I'm not sure people are taking it as seriously as I would like. I ask him why he's voting Anon (with the sub-question of "is it a random vote"), he responds that yes, it is a random vote and votes me for daring to ask him, and yet later when he's asked about it by scotmany and Anon implies that it wasn't totally a random vote and he did think Anon was scummy. When I questioned him about it he gave a total non-answer:

1. At that time, I thought you would be better choice to vote.

2. Your name starts with 'Shan' and ends with 'ba'.

I'm not sure why i didn't follow this up at the time; I certainly meant to. But better late than never.

Furthermore, his only other action in this game so far has been an incredibly lame wagonvote onto dahill:

For now, it seems like dahill was trying to manipulate the town votes without being noticed, but failed at that.

Unvote, Vote: dahill1

basically repeating what shea and others were saying and adding an icky as fuck disclaimer (I hate when people say shit like "for now". It's basically them giving themselves an easy out if they need to get off the wagon. I mean, if you're a townie, what does adding stuff like "for now" add? It's an abdication of responsibility. Yeah, it's possible it's just a verbal tic or whatever but I do think scum do it more than town.)

I'm not sure what to make of his little jab at quagmire. "Why aren't you looking at me?" is an unusual scum tactic to say the least (and you can accuse me of drinking the wine, but I'm not sure that it's that simple in these cases.) That's basically the only thing that gives me pause.

The dahill wagon is totally passé.

[DeathNote]

~sorasgoof replaces ImmuneShadow! Thanks sorasgoof!

theo has been prodded.~

[Thestatusquo]

Cody's vote on korts is somewhat bizarre. That's all I have for right now, but I've been traveling on a train since 6 am yesterday.

[dahill1]

How is Korts (and most of the other people) useless? WHY AREN'T YOU TARGETTING ME?

All I have basically done is just do nothing. I post maybe once a day/2 days and my posts are 1 line long. Why are you accusing other people of being worthless but I'm not on that list?

What is up with this game and people admitting that they're doing nothing (see Richard Massive)?

If you realize that you a burden to the town, then do something about it! You're not helping your case much at all. I don't really see Shanba's case with the whole vote with Anon/Shanba at the beginning but your recent actions have definitely been lacking of contribution or anything original.

I don't agree with Quag either on Korts. Actually getting a town read on Korts so far.

@Vas: am I still your top suspect? if so, why? who else do you find scummy so far? one of the reasons you said was (lack of) content, so like I asked before can you please point out some non-content posts I've made. and can you also elaborate on my "VI-ness"

[dahill1]

All Korts has done is criticise others (notably mine) and their play, with the occasional decent post lurking somewhere in the mix. Sure, he's posting on a relatively frequent basis, but with the content of his posts, I get a really aggressive, frustrated and arrogant townie read from him. In my experience, those type of townies usually tend to get wrong gut reads and end up hurting the town because of their arrogance, and, on occasion, eccentricity.

And what is your experience exactly? Not to be rude, but from your sig it looks like one game.

[sorasgoof]

/confirming

After I read through the thread a little more in-depth, I'll try to post some content.

[sorasgoof]

EBWOP: @dahill, Richard has played in at least three games that I know of, and attempted to mod one. That failed. Besides that, I can vouch that he does at least have some experience. However, his meta is FREAKING HORRIBLE.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Korts: Why FeFiFoFum and not one of the other lurkers? (theo who has been prodded or ImmuneShadow) What separates Fx4 from the others that would garner your vote?

@Farside: Thanks for filling in!

@Mod: inHimshallibe appears twice on the vote count.

DeathNote: I fixed my vote count on this issue.
farside

[FeFiFoFum]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

[Quagmire]

Here's Korts' posting so far.

Korts originally pinged my scumdar when this happened:

Also,

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Please explain how voting with dice is helpful at all.

Random Voting Stage. Durr.

Kindly address Shea's questions.

Shea, that is bull

hokey

. If I see material worth pursuing, I will pursue it. No-one has sole ownership over avenues of discussion and lines of questioning; if you have a different idea of what the questions should be, you're free to go that way. Forum mafia has the benefit of not being tied to a linear discussion.

vote: izzy

don't even claim just die

Doing a quick reread, I felt compelled to bump this post.

Please explain the rationale behind this, Mr. Giant.

The last post especially. Let me explain.

Korts is a smart enough player to understand how to play mafia; he is able to understand the difference between a substantive case and a case built on a house of cards. The problem is that Korts has been doing much, much more of the latter, and virtually none of the former. He's spent all his time either a) talking about theory (scumtell when we're on page 11), or b) pushing absolutely wretched cases on people.

Take the first post I quoted. Now, this post obviously isn't reason enough to condemn anyone, but it pinged my scumdar when I first saw it; kind of seemed to me to be a curious case of buddying at first (although inconclusive and I'm still battling this internally), but look at the case he's pushing... RVS voting? Really Korts? Even if it's a bit late,

that's a scumtell

?

It's not like it was a one-time deal either and he backed off later:

It's RVS. I don't expect to accomplish anything until we're out of it and have started scumhunting

NO. RVS is not something to get over, nor is it something in which scumhunting doesn't happen. It is merely a stage where information is not so readily available. Do your work instead of whining, otherwise information will not be generated.

Richard, the whole general attitude of yours toward RVS is basically whining; the reason RVS is not something to get out of is because it doesn't really exist. Information doesn't come in bulk after some magical line is crossed. The constructive thing to do is not to idly pass the time waiting for the end of something that doesn't have one. Find something to bite on and don't let go until you have something better.

Geez, what is this, Mafia 101?

He's still voting Vasuveda at this point. The problem here is that he's coaching Richard on how to play mafia, due to an error in his theory... and he's voting Vasuveda due to an error in his theory. He still has done nothing except push an awful case, and talk theory... then came this gem:

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

That case on Vasuveda you've made so far is based on him voting with dice and 'blatant opportunism' you later admitted was wrong. Why are you pushing such transparent cases? Are you being lazy? You've posted some content and talked about theory, so you can't be completely lazy or buzy. So you're either being a lazy townsperson, or a scum trying to push cases and start bandwagons to look townie later on. I bet it's the latter.

The icing on the cake, of course, is when he flip-flops on Vasuveda and RichardGHP (unvoting vas, voting richard) for equally petty crimes about theory. Just a coincidence that the Vas wagon didn't gain any steam? And why are you voting for a lurker now? That makes 3 transparent, lazy cases (by my count) and a bunch of chatter about mafia theory. Korts you're better than that.

One more note: One of my favorite scumtells is when people do an odd amount of 'reacting' to posts instead of 'considering' them... Korts has reacted to an absurd amount of posts without considering the implications of them. "You voted with dice?! VOTE VAS." "THIS POST IS BLATANT OPPORTUNISM VOTE VAS." You're not sitting back and considering the entirety of Vas' post history, but instead attacking the singular post... this is generally the difference between new and experienced players, but since I consider Korts experienced, I just think he's trying to start a bandwagon on something he can exploit.

This post was really poorly jointed and I'm too lazy to go back and smooth it out. Any clarifications please ask.

[VasudeVa]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting. Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him. Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

dahill wagon seems to be going nowhere due to lack of interest. What's up with the apathy anyway? Is it really this hard to get people interested on day 1? Never really started on Day 1, my first game(still on going) was me replacing into D2.

Scumhunt post coming soon. Finding it really difficult to gather my thought due to the amount of players.

[Quagmire]

With all that said, I still don't like Vasuveda, but not for the reasons Korts has tried to push. I'll reread him in iso and see what I can find.

[Quagmire]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

yo try and post more

[scotmany12]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting.

Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him.

Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

Are you serious here?

[VasudeVa]

@Quagmire
Your argument is silly, stupid and hypocritical. Before him trying to wagon on me, my posts were just me answering TSQ's Random Question spree. How could he consider the entirety of my posts if I did not post any other content other than the ones he had a problem with?

And I like to think that scum will not even try to correct bad mafia theory. What's the point? Players with bad theory garner hate and suspicion from town(learned this the hard way). Mafia doesn't even have to try casting suspicion on other people, all they have to do is to let the bad theory guy get himself lynched. It's a win-win situation for mafia to ignore players with bad theory. And it's an aggressive move for them to fuel suspicion on bad theory guy.

Which is what I think you're doing. Care to explain yourself?

unvote, vote Quag

[VasudeVa]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting.

Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him.

Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

Are you serious here?

I was. I'm very comfortable with lurker/VI lynching. Lurkers/VIs make great mafia scapegoats. Again, GTFO my playstyle.

[dahill1]

Scot I have to say, there is something about your play in this game that seems off compared to other games I've played with you. You haven't done anything necessarily scummy so far, but your tone just seems different. I think I'm gonna look at Frogs Mafia to do a quick comparison

[sorasgoof]

I don't have time to do a full blown case on anyone yet, but I want it to be known that my main suspects are mipe and scot.

Also, I really don't buy the case on dahill. Or Dizzy, for that matter.

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to put up a real case.

[Quagmire]

@Quagmire
Your argument is silly, stupid and hypocritical. Before him trying to wagon on me, my posts were just me answering TSQ's Random Question spree. How could he consider the entirety of my posts if I did not post any other content other than the ones he had a problem with?

Why would he vote you then?

[RichardGHP]

I <3 you too sora.

I've played in about 7 games total (plus EpicMafia). Enough to know how people like Korts operate.

[scotmany12]

RichardGHP:

Actually, I was referring to the whole "being worthless" part, but townies with attidutes like his generally don't help the town. Hence the IGMEOY.

Generally people use IGMEOY on people they think might be scum. And you never answered my question. Why are you voting for dahill? You never explained your vote.

Please respond.