Mini 911 - Mike's Pizzeria Mafia (Game Over)

[Netopalis]

Thor: As of page 20. I'm going to finish the rest of the read-through today.

[Parama]

I do not disagree that the points DRK brought up could connect me to ES.
Problem is that I'm not his buddy.
Problem #2 is that I can't defend against accusations brought up by what other people have said about me because I can't control what other players say. So if you're waiting for a response to DRK's points, I have none.

[Thor665]

Theoretically if you're not the buddy there ought to be something you can argue because the evidence shouldn't line up. Do you have an alternate case of an evilsnail scumbuddy to present?

As i noted earlier, and you haven't responded to, you seemed to target Jack as the scumbuddy but didn't actually present *why* you thought he was the scumbuddy. That information is pretty germane to the discussion today.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Parama
Basically what Thor said. If you're not evilsnail's buddy, find someone else who is and either post a case or show a connection to evilsnail.

[Seven]

I'm not quite finished going through everything yet but I should be done tomorrow night. It would help if Net could finish posting because I have a whole day where LS was missing.

@DRK Did you try to watch anyone and get blocked or did you simply assume you were going to get NKed?

[DeathRowKitty]

I watched IK again and was blocked.

---

I had time to post today, but I chose to go into all out nerd mode instead.

To do list:
1. Don't be lazy.

^ Don't worry, it's on my to do list!

[Thor665]

I'm really looking to hear more from...well, every player but DRK.

Jack hasn't said much thus far today and somehow Seven has managed to say even less (I am looking forward to this 'going through everything' you're promising. Now that my other ongoing game just exploded into lockdown I might actually try to do the same).

I currently find Parama's commentary scummy (his complaints of lack of cases while advancing accusations without cases and his 'I can't get a read on Thor' commentary when (whether or not I am hard to read) I certainly feel I've been fairly available and verbose about trying to explain myself and I can't recall him questioning me on anything really at any point in this game. I don't understand why a townie would not bother trying to get a read on someone they 'don't understand'. However it makes a lot of sense that a scum wouldn't worry about that at all.

[Parama]

I currently find Parama's commentary scummy (his complaints of lack of cases while advancing accusations without cases and his 'I can't get a read on Thor' commentary when (whether or not I am hard to read) I certainly feel I've been fairly available and verbose about trying to explain myself and I can't recall him questioning me on anything really at any point in this game. I don't understand why a townie would not bother trying to get a read on someone they 'don't understand'. However it makes a lot of sense that a scum wouldn't worry about that at all.

If I can't read one player very well but have reliable reads on all the other players, when there's 2 scum I don't particularly care. If there happens to be a LyLo situation involving both me and Thor I'll be sure to ISO you, but as it stands I don't have much of a read on you. You could be scum, but I can safely say you're not high on my (relatively short) list right now.
I remember the specific posts that made me see a Jack-evilsnail scum connection, I'll get it up later today hopefully.
(I say that now and then I bet I probably won't do it <.< DRK, can I borrow your To-do list for a while?)

[Thor665]

If I can't read one player very well but have reliable reads on all the other players, when there's 2 scum I don't particularly care.

Reliable reads?

Anyways, I DID read ES in ISO. Jack looks like the most likely partner, to be honest.
Though his reaction test at the end of yesterday is still confusing me, and he hasn't posted since the hammer anyways....
Jack for scum, if you must know. Call it OMGUS. Go ahead. You would....
DRK is town, obviously, Seven I am unsure of, null read at best, though leaning scum, and I've never really gotten super scummy vibes from LS/Neto... though the slot sat all of yesterday out and LS wasn't that active beforehand either.

I see DRK = town
Jack's reaction test is confusing you but you call him scum (due to evilsnail ISO post that you may or may not produce)
Seven is unsure but leaning scum.
LS/Neto you haven't gotten strong scum vibes from but point out how the slot is lurky.
And then there's me who you have no read on really at all.

These are "reliable" reads? I see one solid read (DRK) one semi-solid (Jack) and then literally three players that you give wishy-washy reads on. What am I missing here?

[Parama]

I am a tunnel-y person in general. If I have one strong scum read I tend to stick to it.
Okay, so my reads on LS and Seven aren't exactly "reliable" but yes I am all but sure of my Jack read now. I will admit that "reliable" wasn't exactly the best word to be using.
Jack and Seven need to post more. Neto needs to catch up soon.
And I need to stop being so damn lazy and get this stuff I have on Jack typed up and posted. I'mma policy lynch myself soon if I don't get this up.

[Parama]

Ignore the fact that I put out 5 Fingers of Suspicion near the end of Day 1.
When I don't have good reads that's what happens .-. I fail miserably at scumhunting.

[Thor665]

Okay, so my reads on LS and Seven aren't exactly "reliable"

This then brings me back to my original question about your attitude towards me - a player you apparently have no read on because it is hard to understand what I am up to but yet you have asked me no questions and posted no suspicions at me whatsoever.

You appear to be backtracking from your earlier stated reason for this action (reliable reads on others) so I have to ask again - why no movement to ever figure out the enigma that was Thor in this game?

Also, have you been a tunneling player this game?

[DisgruntledSean]

The first thing I did was go through ES's and his predecessor's posts. I figured the best way to do it would be to start off by ignoring what he says about anyone and just measure how frequently he mentions each player (the logic behind this being that in conjunction with the information we have about who has flipped town and the positive/negative/neutral ratio of how he brought them up, we should have a better indication of who is what). It ended up taking 2 hours, and not being as obvious as I thought it would be. I'm going to try a different approach that someone used in another game of mine and see if it yeilds better results. (I'm mentioning all this so you know I have more on the way, I just wanted to get some stuff out right away. I also kept the notes from what I was trying to do so if anyone thinks it could help I don't mind posting them, just ask).

So next thing I did was go through the votes. I put my bandwagon even though it wasn't a lynch since it got to L-2 I think it can be helpful. I put confirmed town as green and almost confirmed town (DRK) as that other color. I put Thor in blue because I personally think he's town.

L-2

Seven

(5) - chamber,

HomerSimpson

,

Cuetlachtli

,

Thor665

,

DeathRowKitty

Idiotking

(2) - Lastsurvivor,

danakillsu

danakillsu

(1) - Parama

Thor665

(1) -

Idiotking

DeathRowKitty

(1) -

SeerPenguin

Not Voting (2) -

DiamondCrash

, Seven

danakillsu

(7) -

Idiotking

, Panzerjager,

evilsnail

, Lastsurvivor,

DeathSauce

,

Cuetlachtli

, Parama

Radical Hijinx

(1) -

Thor665

DeathRowKitty

(1) -

Radical Hijinx

Panzerjager

(1) -

danakillsu

Not Voting (2) - Seven,

DeathRowKitty

Shiverer

(6) - Seven,

Idiotking

, Parama,

DeathSauce

,

evilsnail

,

Thor665

evilsnail

(2) -

Shiverer

,

DeathRowKitty

DeathRowKitty

(1) - Jack

Not Voting (1) - Lastsurvivor

evilsnail

(5) - Seven,

Idiotking

, Parama,

DeathRowKitty

, Jack

Not Voting (3) -

Thor665

, Lastsurvivor,

evilsnail

I think it's pretty likely there is always 2 scum on each wagon, including ES's because his partners would likely have bussed him at that point. I'm putting prob scum as dark red.

L-2

Seven

(5) -

chamber

,

HomerSimpson

,

Cuetlachtli

,

Thor665

,

DeathRowKitty

danakillsu

(7) -

Idiotking

,

Panzerjager

,

evilsnail

, Lastsurvivor,

DeathSauce

,

Cuetlachtli

,

Parama

Shiverer

(6) - Seven,

Idiotking

,

Parama

,

DeathSauce

,

evilsnail

,

Thor665

evilsnail

(5) - Seven,

Idiotking

,

Parama

,

DeathRowKitty

,

Jack

Since I'm not confirmed townie I'll skip over my own wagon and go to DKUs. The three other candidates were being voted by two confirmed town and Thor who I believe to be town. The Shiv wagon had one confirmed scum who was also one of the 2 lynch targets (both votes by town), the other being DRK who was being voted by Jack (possible scum).

Continuing in the line of vote patterns I think it's interesting that on all three lynches the third vote on the wagon is by prob-scum (one confirmed). I know it's WIFOM and not something you can really base a lynch on, but along with everything else I find it interesting.

I'm still not finished, as I mentioned at the top I want to try making a chart to see if the results are comparable to what I have here. Meanwhile I'm also going through posts that aren't by ES but that mention him. By the end of it we should have a pretty solid idea who to go for.

[Seven]

Sorry that was by me, my spouse was logged in and I forgot...

[Thor665]

Sorry that was by me, my spouse was logged in and I forgot...

Thank gawd - I had a really bad moment where I was trying to remember who had been replaced.

[Jack]

If I remember correctly, parama was being voted be me and IK when evilsnail made his fakeclaim. If parama was town, then why wouldn't evilsnail (given that he's willing to make a risky move) get on the wagon, and hope the other two scum are on at the same time to hammer?

The above is assuming I'm town. And that LS was town.

Seven added evilsnail to his scumlist out of nowhere:

I will be finished the rest of the PBPAs by around midnight EST. I was only doing the people on my scumlist but I can do everyone else as well. My scumlist was Parama, DRK, DS and evilsnail (no order).

My list is from after D2 ended with Shiv's lynch and he flipped town.

This really makes no sense as a townie. "I'm doing ISO reads based on my scumlist from yesterday, which has a dead person on it, and a person I added for the first time today. No order to the list."


These are the two scum.

[Seven]

You're saying I

-used the same list as the day before
-added someone who was not on my list before the thread closed

So it's not the same list. When I saw Shiv's flip, I considered who I thought was what (before reading through the thread again) and wrote it down. The list stayed the same, I added evilsnail because he was one of the other major candidates and I wanted to consider it a possibility.

You also don't mention that I put DRK on my scum list when until then I had pretty much always said I was sure he was town. Why are you omitting this detail?

[DeathRowKitty]

V/LA until tomorrow

[Thor665]

Thor: As of page 20. I'm going to finish the rest of the read-through today.

Are you still alive, or have the gerbils gotten you?

@Parama - I will remind you that you were going to show us evidence of Jack's connection to evilsnail?

@Jack - what makes you clear Netopalis in your mind? Is it just that you find Seven/Parama scummy, or do you actually have a town read for something LS/Neto did?

[Parama]

Okay, so my reads on LS and Seven aren't exactly "reliable"

This then brings me back to my original question about your attitude towards me - a player you apparently have no read on because it is hard to understand what I am up to but yet you have asked me no questions and posted no suspicions at me whatsoever.

Because honestly I don't care about you right now. Call it scummy if you want to.

You appear to be backtracking from your earlier stated reason for this action (reliable reads on others) so I have to ask again - why no movement to ever figure out the enigma that was Thor in this game?

Hey look I've got a post chain planned that I should be able to do Friday that, after I do it, should make this entire game clear to me. I will be figuring out whether everyone is scum or not soon. Lynch me if I don't get it up tomorrow <_<

Also, have you been a tunneling player this game?

D1 I was pretty solid on Cuet for a while (less near the end of the day, like I mentioned.)
D2 I had a war with Shiv which ended in a blowout. And ugh I still hate being on that wagon.
D3 I started with a comment on why evilsnail was scum <_< I don't think I ever changed that stance.
And today I don't care about anyone else than Jack. But I just recently realized that reading everyone left in ISO (besides DRK) = really great idea.

If I remember correctly, parama was being voted be me and IK when evilsnail made his fakeclaim. If parama was town, then why wouldn't evilsnail (given that he's willing to make a risky move) get on the wagon, and hope the other two scum are on at the same time to hammer?

The above is assuming I'm town. And that LS was town.

Which is a terrible assumption to make in a game where 2 people = 33% of the people remaining.
Plus you're scum anyways. Meh.

@Parama - I will remind you that you were going to show us evidence of Jack's connection to evilsnail?

I was but I caught a severe case of lazy. I'm still going to get on it soon, today is a terrible day though (lotsa homework).

/lazy

[Seven]

I have another post in the works, but I have a design project I need to finish for tomorrow. I should have something up by 2AM EST Saturday.

[Netopalis]

Ok, I've finished the read-through. Sorry about that, life tends to pile up at the oddest times.

I think it should be fairly obvious that the best cases for scum are Jack and Seven.

Reasoning:
Seven attacked Evilsnail while Evilsnail was defending him. This sort of odd pairing often indicates scum. It's also important to note that Evilsnail's first actions after replacing in were defending Seven. Given Evilsnail's playstyle, I doubt he was trying to pull off the whole "desperately fighting against a mislynch leading into an 'I told you so'" gambit.

Additionally, Seven has been independently scummy. He talks a lot, but most of what he posts fails to take a strong stance and it tends to be a bit waffley.

Jack has made weak attacks on players throughout the game. He attacks DRK and Parama and proceeds to tunnel against Parama, who I feel is an extremely obvious townie. He also has the audacity to ask others for reasoning (Iso post 3) while refusing to post it himself. Finally, his playstyle right now is incredibly anti-town and counterproductive.

Therefore, I feel fairly confident that at least one of Jack or Seven is scum, possibly both. Note Jack's careful avoidance of seriously talking about Seven - he does place an FOS, but never votes, despite bringing up scumtells against Seven multiple times.

Seven also carefully avoids mentioning Jack - he questions the efficacy of Jack's reads a few times and gives light scumreads, but never seriously pursues them. I feel rather confident that they're scum together.

Vote: Jack

[Seven]

Re Sev-Evilsnail: I also attacked SP when he had been defending me. Look it up.

And ES being scum defending town seems like a logical scum move. "Oh I'm so sure so and so is town", person gets lynched and flips town, ES looks town.. Yeah. No dice.

Re Jack-Sev: I can definitely see how this association might happen. I have avoided Jack for the most part because A) he annoys me B) none of what he says is refutable when it's all pretty much gut reads. Once it had been established that was how he played and it was obvious he didn't care to change his strategy, I stopped bothering with him.

I don't see how Par is obv-town. My gut says town when I read him, but looking at his posts in iso show that he has been more wishy washy than anyone this game. Considering one of your reasons for thinking I'm scum is that I'm waffling I find it strange you think Par is town.

FoS on Net.

[Netopalis]

Your FOS is not supported by your post.

[DeathRowKitty]

It is supported by his post. You just happen to disagree with it.