Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[Lacey]

Grasping at straws? You still don't look shiney to me would you really want another argument?

More content can't hurt. Like I said, I'm not going to completely fault you here as I can understand moving your vote. But you do seem very defensive about it. A lot of AtE in that last post of yours too...

The post where I ask you how I'm bw vote hoping? The one your not answering? That post.

Pfft

I'm just asking a question. I feel it's odd that instead of responding with a straight answer, you respond with AtE, and basically refuse to answer.

Farside you seem to get touchy and jumpy anytime the spotlight is turned on you, and you've avoided giving straight answers several times. My vote is staying on kmd for the moment, but I feel your play is odd.

[Sando]

A lot of AtE in that last post of yours too...

Where is the AtE in Farsides post exactly?

[farside22]

Grasping at straws? You still don't look shiney to me would you really want another argument?

More content can't hurt. Like I said, I'm not going to completely fault you here as I can understand moving your vote. But you do seem very defensive about it. A lot of AtE in that last post of yours too...

How is my post an appeal to emotion?

[farside22]

Grasping at straws? You still don't look shiney to me would you really want another argument?

More content can't hurt. Like I said, I'm not going to completely fault you here as I can understand moving your vote. But you do seem very defensive about it. A lot of AtE in that last post of yours too...

The post where I ask you how I'm bw vote hoping? The one your not answering? That post.

Pfft

I'm just asking a question. I feel it's odd that instead of responding with a straight answer, you respond with AtE, and basically refuse to answer.

Farside you seem to get touchy and jumpy anytime the spotlight is turned on you, and you've avoided giving straight answers several times. My vote is staying on kmd for the moment, but I feel your play is odd.

what question did I not ansnwer?
I'm in a bad mood if this site let you do a search you would see I'm being pissy to everyone today.

[Lacey]

BW vote seriously?
I was the second person to vote on you, I was the third vote on DTMaster and I was the second vote on Spring.

So how am I hopping on bw votes exactly

?

So you admit to jumping on bandwagons once you seem them forming?

Reading in bold is tech. This question answer a question with a question is scummy.
Do you see me asking how it's bw voting hopping? And no I just looked to see when I was voting just now. I had no idea at the time who voted for who at the time.

You're the one answering a question with a question farside.

I think your votes appear to be bandwagon hopping as you have jumped onto the ones which are getting a lot of thread traffic. You're claiming you have no idea at the time who voted for

whom

, but it's easy to claim without giving evidence.

It is quite possible you are doing more than hopping to the latest wagon. I'm just looking to understand your reasoning. I think town would benefit from hearing it.

[farside22]

Whatever you say scummy, mcscummerson.
I answered your questions. Your not saying where I didn't answer a quetion.
Everything I call you out as scum you say I'm scummy for the same reason.
I stated why I voted for

whom

I did just because your not reading the game is no reason to ignore me.

[Lacey]

A lot of AtE in that last post of yours too...

Where is the AtE in Farsides post exactly?

Maybe AtE isn't the best way of saying it. Let me make my point more clearly and explicitly, and you can tell me the correct term:

Grasping at straws? You still don't look shiney to me would you really want another argument?

Instead of answering my question, Farside instead tried to turn it around into a threat. What I read this as, is a threat "Back of now, or I'm going to go after you". This isn't a valid response. It's trying to scare me into backing down when:

1) A case against me would be welcome, as it would involve some serious scum hunting.
2) It tries to avoid answering my question.

I was thinking AtE is the right term as it seems to be trying to evoke an emotion (fear) instead of responding. Maybe this isn't the correct term.

[Lacey]

I stated why I voted for

whom

I did just because your not reading the game is no reason to ignore me.

Hmmm, personal attacks, how nice. This is a game. I am reading, and I'm not ignoring you. I don't feel this is called for.

I'm going to go do things more constructive until you've changed your attitude. I don't need this.

[farside22]

And I'm back to thinking lacey is scum again in case anyone missed it.

So far her case on me is:
1) bw hopping
proved where move vote was when I voted. Stated reason's why I voted for stated player
2) apparently I didn't answer a question but I did she just gets jumpy when I "threaten" her.

Cool story bro

Wait do you have a case? Or is this just theory with no standing?

[Sando]

Farside saying that he's grumpy today and is grumpy in all games is an example of AtE, but considering it's in direct response to an emotional accusation, null.

His threat in isolation would be scummy, but he's articulated what he finds scummy about you. Following that up with a threat isn't particularly telling imo.

[farside22]

Tell me what your case is then Lacey? Because all I see is you complaining about my votes which I explained. You called it BW hopping which it clearly is not.

I was thinking AtE is the right term as it seems to be trying to evoke an emotion (fear) instead of responding. Maybe this isn't the correct term.

This is not me dodging a question.

[farside22]

Farside saying that he's grumpy today and is grumpy in all games is an example of AtE, but considering it's in direct response to an emotional accusation, null.

His threat in isolation would be scummy, but he's articulated what he finds scummy about you. Following that up with a threat isn't particularly telling imo.

No I'm bitchy. Arguing with me today is bad. It's not AtE it's pretty much my mood today. I would point to this elsewhere but you can't mention ongoing games.

[Lacey]

Tell me what your case is then Lacey? Because all I see is you complaining about my votes which I explained. You called it BW hopping which it clearly is not.

I was thinking AtE is the right term as it seems to be trying to evoke an emotion (fear) instead of responding. Maybe this isn't the correct term.

This is not me dodging a question.

I'm not voting for you farside. I don't have a case yet. But you are building one for me with your reactions. I'm still voting Kmd, yet you're as jumpy as a grasshopper in April.

@Sando: The threat seems a scum tell to me regardless of previous accusations. Town doesn't threaten scum to secure silence. They scum hunt and post cases. A threat is anti-town. If Farside believes another look at me is necessary, the pro-town thing to do is just begin investigating or call for such an investigation, not threaten one if I keep digging on her.

==================

And in general. I'm off for today. Farside has clearly put the grumpy pants on for a while, and the last thing I want to do is entertain her and the Drama Llama. I feel the attitude she is displaying is unhelpful, and I refuse to be its target today.

[farside22]

And there goes lacey again. No case at all. Doesn't answer the questions I possed to her and thinks that being threatened by a player is scummy.
You lost the last argument sweetie an if you don't see that you may want to try and reread the game from a town prospective.

But you are building one for me with your reactions. I'm still voting Kmd, yet you're as jumpy as a grasshopper in April.

You are already trying to build a case and everytime I undermind it you come back with nothing to say for yourself except conjector and WIFOM.
Now when you actually want to answer my questions and can handle what I asked you then by all means come back and join the game.

[Lacey]

Mod

Please replace me out. I have no desire to play in a game in which players resort to personal attacks and out of game baiting.

[CSL]

-sigh-

Looking for ANOTHER replacement.

[farside22]

I stated why I voted for

whom

I did just because your not reading the game is no reason to ignore me.

Hmmm, personal attacks, how nice. This is a game. I am reading, and I'm not ignoring you. I don't feel this is called for.

This is not a personal attack. This is an observation based on what I read from you. I saw you not refer to my points on what I saw from each player I voted and you ponced on something like bw when I proved it's not a bw vote. So no I don't think saying your not reading a game as personal.

[CSL]

Enough, farside. Lacey requested replacement, that is enough from you.

Vote count, which hasn't changed, coming up, because I love flavor!

[CSL]

Flavor

Suddenly, out of nowhere, farside started yelling at Lacey. Lacey, refusing to co-operate with farside, stepped off of the podium, and walked off. Everyone looks at farside, with anger.

The headaches suck votecount

kmd4390 (L-6) Lacey
Fongoid (L-7)
farside22 (L-7)
Sando (L-7)
The Quintastic One (L-7)
Gheb (L-7)
springlullaby (L-2) Gheb, farside22, Sando, kmd4390, TheLonging
DTMaster (L-7)
yellowbunny (L-7)
Lacey (L-6) Fongoid
TheLonging (L-5) JacobSavage, DTMaster
JacobSavage (L-7)

Not voting: Everyone else

With 12 alive, 7 will lynch

Fongoid is being replaced.
spring has been prodded.
Lacey requested replacement.

An appropriate mod has been notified of recent events. The situation is under review. Carry on.

[CSL]

Zang replaces Fongoid.

[Zang]

Hi, will go read thread and post sometime tommorow

[CSL]

Well...It seems springlullaby flaked. Searching for ANOTHER replacement. I might have to modkill ones that don't respond to their prods or flake if this keeps up. It's only Day 1, and this is my 5th replacement. Jeez...

[DTMaster]

@KMD
I just realized in my last post I quoted and said nothing. D'oh. YB, 285 post beated me but I was going to refer to that. Stream of consciousness writing is bad.

@Farside
http://www.msutils.net/search.php

You're favorite search tool is baaack :3

@Farside/Lacey Debate con't

1. Points against Lacey due to the questions of: show us where you see
a. Bandwagoning argument.
b. AtE

and the lack of quotes/links thereof. Quotes/links make stronger arguments.

2. However the replacement out feels like: Townie getting frustrated. Tone, context, and everything about this argument screams this to me.

3. Sorta, for Farside although I wouldn't justify this as a plus. Via search tool, yes Farside is very snarky today. Though that's just a sign of playstyle quirk (aggressive scum hunting). Sando makes a point about that.

4. Ideally both of you need to take a time out and cool down for a day.

[DTMaster]

@Mod

Deadline extension due to the increased amount of replacements?

[Kmd4390]

My biggest issue so far is a lot of post from lacey comes off with trying to appease the town or her own concern on how something looks.

Not uncommon for newer players regardless of alignment. Hell, I could name a few who ARE experienced and do it.

farside

Quick question for you. Can you fill the rest of us in on how and when you think it is appropriate to vote?

Others are also welcome to answer this question if they would like.

When the day starts, unless it's LYLO in which case you'd better be damn sure.

Yellow, Jacob/TheLonging seem town to me.

Why do you think that?

Not sure if you know, but this game is another game being replayed. Both were in the first game and they seem to be playing consistantly with the meta I picked up from that game

kmd: No clue what so ever. I waffle on whether kmd is town or scum. Don't like trying to end the day early, or his sudden flip to declaring me town. Lack of reasoning is spotty, sometimes he makes a good case, sometimes he declares one by fiat. So I'm having trouble reading in general. Can't tell if this is honest scum hunting, or a ploy. Was leaning scum, but I'm beginning to think more town.

Lacey, I'm telling you right now that when there are multiple scum groups, my scumhunting is honest scumhunting even if I am scum. Don't use the way I scumhunt as a point for or against me.

farside: Slightly scummy, seems to be voting erratically and joining any bandwagon that pops up. I may be tunneling here though, so I'm not willing to "bet the farm" on this fact.

BW vote seriously?
I was the second person to vote on you, I was the third vote on DTMaster and I was the second vote on Spring. So how am I hopping on bw votes exactly?

Seriously Kmd you still think someone who exacterates things like this is town?

Meh, while I don't see it as a huge deal, the closest we've had to bandwagons were Lacey/DT/Spring (let me know if I missed any) and you were on all three so I can understand Lacey pointing that out.

-----------------

Farside, hope everything is ok. I've played mafia in a bad mood before and I know it sucks.

-----------------

Lacey, if you're still reading, I don't think Farside made any personal attacks. Even if you feel she did, understand that I know Farside as someone who didn't mean to offend you. Replacing out hurts the game, so I'd appreciate if you stayed in.