Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Thestatusquo]

I don't even know how to respond to that, if english is your first language...

If you think you're flying under the radar, then don't...Be loud, say things, take stances...

If you trying to fly under the radar than why point it out?

Like, I just understand that post at all.

[Richard Massive]

I'm not trying to, I just don't really have anything to say. I'm just posting occasionally to make sure people (especially the mod) know I'm still here...

And yeah English is my first language, although I don't even know why you said that...

[Thestatusquo]

Because fly under the radar is an english coloquialism, so I didn't know if maybe you were not a native speaker and thus didn't understand the connotations of the word. "Flying under the rader" is a scum TACTIC, why you would openly call it that was strange, and I dont understand if you're an english speaker why you would catagorize yourself that way.

[scotmany12]

I'm not trying to, I just don't really have anything to say. I'm just posting occasionally to make sure people (especially the mod) know I'm still here...

And yeah English is my first language, although I don't even know why you said that...

What do you think of the votes on me?

What do you think of the wagon on dahill? How about the votes on VasudeVa?

Who do you think is scum?

[farside22]

Hi this is your back up mod with a vote count for you.

DizzyIzzyB13- Shanba, inHimshallibe, FeFiFoFum (L-8)
VasudeVa- scotmany12, dahill1, Quagmire (L-8)
scotmany12- springlullaby, iamausername (L-9)
Springlullaby- DizzyIzzyB13 (L-10)
dahill1- Anon, Ksun482, Thestatusquo, Mipe, RichardGHP, VasudeVa, inHimshallibe (L-4)
Richard Massive- theopor_COD (L-10)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Not Voting:

ImmuneShadow
Richard Massive
Korts

[mipe]

unvote

Unvote for now. I don't want a potential lynch when there still is 2 and half weeks to the day deadline.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Alright, I'm through my busy patch and I'm up to date with the game. IT seems to me there are two issues that need to be commented on - VasudeVa and the Dahill wagon.

As regards VasudeVa, I'm pretty much in agreement that he's showing all the signs of newb probable town. Having played a very recent game of this kind with people showing similarish behaviour (including RichardGHP, which is why he's over-estimating my ability at Mafia), I'm pretty sure that he's consistent with the newb town characterisation, although I do leave open the possibility that he's putting on an act if he's as well versed in Mafia as he claims to be, but I consider this unlikely. I can see why Scot has formed the opinion he has, I just think he's horribly wrong.

As for Dahill, I think the case against him is pretty weak, to be honest. I think the post where he reacted to RichardGHP's statement was awkwardly worded, but it struck me the intent of the post wasn't to create the impression that Richard was scummy, and was rather a surprised reaction and an attempt to get the newbie RichardGHP to think about the stupidity of the statement he made in order to convince him otherwise. Aside from that post, there's nothing really to build a case out of other than his response to accusations, which fit the tone in which I read the initial post to be made.

Finally, with regards the status of my vote...

Vote scot

Don't like the way he is going so hard on Vasud, given his possible genuine newbishness.
Don't like his use of 'we' (him and Korts) while replying to Vasud.
Note here that I actually agree with Scot on Vasud playing the newbie card, however I think Vasud's alignment is exactly crapshot at this point, and town, especially more experienced town, is more likely to let it slide for now and see, and him being obtuse about is un-seemingly town for me.

A question to TSQ, why are you all over the place? Also, is that normal for you as town?

This is springlullaby's only post since expressing her intention to actively lurk and only post when she has to. I note that she has declined to make any contribution regarding the other major issue that has arisen so far.

She votes for Scot, essentially because Scot is scumhunnting and he described the actions of himself and another person using "we". It's a horrendously weak case, and the "we" point is... well, stupid considering it was concise and correct English.

Finally, she asks a question of Shea that borders on irrelevent - she's essentially asking himn "Why are you looking for scum everywhere?" and if it is normal for Shea to hunt scum. Strangeness. Scumminess. I'm happy with my vote.

[inHimshallibe]

I'll go here:

unvote

vote: scot

Comments tomorrow; just drove 8 hours to DC.

[Thestatusquo]

unvote

Unvote for now. I don't want a potential lynch when there still is 2 and half weeks to the day deadline.

I don't like this post at all. Dahill was 4 from lynch, nothing had changed since when you voted him, he had not claimed, which meant we needed more pressure on him, not less, and no one had mentioned that they were thinking of switching over to him. This post essentially reads to me like "Well, this wagon isn't going anywhere, time for me to jump off of it."

His stated reason for voting is like completely 100% incompatible with reality.

HUGE ping on the scumdar here.

[Thestatusquo]

Erm stated reason for unvoting.

Also, its a pet peave of mine when people unvote without revoting. You should ALMOST always be voting the person you're most suspicious of, so when someone fails to place a vote it screams to me that they're not too concerned about where their vote is.

[Shanba]

Shea, weren't you calling for the dahill wagon to be slowed up?

I'm up for a mipe wagon, though. His explanations of his vote on me are still bizarre and inconsistent, and shea's point is a good one.

[PaltryExcuse]

Alrighty.

What do you think is the best wagon?

dahill1-wagon:

I don't like this wagon, as I think this is a case of misunderstanding. When I read dahill1's original post #95, I thought was directed mostly at RichardGHP. That one little question has been getting way too much airtime. Actually, RichardGHP still hasn't responded to dahill1's genuine early concern. dahill1 quotes a good scum-excuse for being useless day 1, and he gets attacked for not voting until he gets an answer.
ksun's, mipe's, inHim's, and RichardGHP's votes just seem like they're latching onto a bandwagon without any reasoning.

Izzy-wagon:

Started out as a random push. It seems dead. I can't glean any information from it honestly.

Vas-wagon:

Korts calls out VasudeVa on his vote for his opportunism, and I agree that it certainly reads that way, especially since the stall on the Izzy-wagon was due to it originating from RVS and not scumhunting. However the accusation that he's just sitting around waiting for something to happen could be applied to ksun, mipe, either of the two Richards, or springlullaby much easier in my mind. Vas's jump was odd, so I'm good with the wagon.

scot-wagon:

Began because of his vote and pressuring against Vas (how I read it).
Are these votes based on meta of scotmany? Otherwise the reasoning seems a bit more based on join-date than MS play (either in-thread or elsewhere). The repeated use of newb-defense has been used to win a game, and I recently played a game where one of the scum faked something because they had never played a game elsewhere that we knew of. The repeated use of the newb-card is scummy.

Who do you think is most likely to be scum at this point (at least three options please)

mipe:

He just seems to like voting... and now has jumped off of dahill1 for a rather odd reason. If town comes to a decision (after hearing their defense), they should lynch the person.

unvote

Unvote for now. I don't want a potential lynch when there still is 2 and half weeks to the day deadline.

This just seems like you're trying to win free town points.
Any information from mipe has to be gotten by asking him directly, and his finding Anon suspicious because he didn't give a reason for his initial vote seems ridiculous.

VasudeVa:

See above.
Don't want to re-read: repeated use of newb card, semi-active lurking. (I don't see much in the way of scumhunting.)

inHimshallibe:

He just keeps jumping in and voting for the newest bandwagon. I look forward to him explaining his most recent move to scot.

Special mentions:

ksun:

Newbish, unhelpful play... he doesn't seem to realize that he actually gets to participate with more than just a vote. Scum who doesn't know what to do? Newb-town just trying to keep up? I can't get a read.

RichardGHP:

He sounds like a thinker by how he posts. However, I haven't seen much except, and the excuse pointed out by dahill1 is concerning.

Who do you think is most likely to be town at this point? (same)

Korts.
However, I will say that I do like iamusername's entrance to the game.

What do you think is the most optimum scum strategy on day one in a large normal game, and whos play do you think most mirrors this strategy?

Scum-tactic 1: Get town lynched.
Scum-tactic 2: Emulate your town play.
Scum-tactic 3: Distance yourself from mislynches.
I don't have any meta on anyone, however I see mipe doing #1 and #3 possibly.

What players do you think are not receiving enough attention?

mipe... and RichardGHP to a lesser degree. inHim could also do with a kick in the behind.

What players do you think are receiving too much attention?

dahill1.

@Mod: I don't appear on the voting list and neither does RichardGHP. inHimshallibe and Richard Massive appears twice. Also, I think Shanba's last vote was for dahill1.

Vote: mipe

[Thestatusquo]

Shea, weren't you calling for the dahill wagon to be slowed up?

I'm up for a mipe wagon, though. His explanations of his vote on me are still bizarre and inconsistent, and shea's point is a good one.

I wanted dahill to claim. I believe I cautioned people to not VOTE dahill until he had a chance to respond to the wagon and possible claim. I don't think -4 from lynch is the point where people need to jump off ship to avoid a quicklynch, especially considering the fact that no one else had voiced an intention to vote for dahill. That would have to be some pretty crazy cross posting for a quicklynch to occur at -4.

I said we needed to not push to the point where he was at -1 or -2 without realizing it, I didn't say we needed to take the pressure off of him.

[inHimshallibe]

Don't worry, I'll break out the big guns sooner or later.

As to my vote, scot is now at least as scummy, if not more, as dahill. And it's Day 1. And I like to see the formation of bandwagons. I could vote either one comfortably, but I want to see what comes of this scot vote.

As to the reason... well... scot's argument seems forced the further he makes it. I echo the question of "Why are you attacking VaVa now, and why like this?"

dahill is still overexplaining himself; I could still vote there, but did I mention I like wagons on Day 1?

[Korts]

Sorry I took so long.

A question to TSQ, why are you all over the place? Also, is that normal for you as town?

This seems out of place for me. SL is an experienced player and I don't know why she'd interpret Shea's actions as being "all over the place"--the motivation for it is clear, and clearly pro-discussion if not outright pro-town. I kinda get the idea that SL is just trying to set up a line of interrogation towards a high profile player for later exploitation.

I'm not comfortable with Richard(GHP)'s post 201, either. There doesn't seem to be much reason to defend Izzy at that point, if at all, and the points he raise seem pointless or scummy: the first is blatantly obvious (that there is no case behind the wagon; it was the first D1 wagon, of course not); the second, that there are now better lynches, futile (the Izzy wagon had already lost its momentum by this time, and players were directing attention elsewhere); and the third appears to be an appeal both to the town's emotion in raising Izzy's later competence, thus postponing an Izzy lynch indefinitely, and an appeal to Izzy--praising Izzy's scumhunting abilities is a clear-cut buddying maneuver.

The scenarios Richard's post fits into are the following: a) he is scum, partnered with Izzy, and trying to deflect any remaining attention from her. b) he is scum, and Izzy is town; he is either trying to get brownie points from her eventual lynch and get into her favor, or he is trying to somehow direct attention back to her by beating a dead horse. c) he is town and is way behind on schedule.

c) doesn't seem likely, because he's ignored all of the content after the Izzy wagon, referring to later developments only in his statement that "there are now lynches that actually have merit in them". a) doesn't seem very productive, because discussion had moved on from Izzy without his help. The logical conclusion is b).

vote: RichardGHP

That said, Anon's 213 doesn't give me a good impression of him either. It seems like he's piggybacking on pre-existing cases, especially with the promise to look into scot right after IAUN expresses his suspicion and votes that way.

[Quagmire]

Cody, nothing in mafia is easily summed up as "one or the other." All actions in mafia are at least somewhat subjective and filled with WIFOM. We make judgement calls based on what we view to be the most likely motivations. This is one such case where I feel strongly that the scum motivation for the action is much more likely than any town one I can think of. The only thing that gives your positions credence in my mind is that DaHill is typically a pretty careless player.

Reread my post, and try again.

[Quagmire]

Can we please diffuse the dahill wagon? It's a really really dumb case. Think about it. The argument boils down to "he addressed the town awkwardly!!!" which of course is silly.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The scenarios Richard's post fits into are the following: a) he is scum, partnered with Izzy, and trying to deflect any remaining attention from her. b) he is scum, and Izzy is town; he is either trying to get brownie points from her eventual lynch and get into her favor, or he is trying to somehow direct attention back to her by beating a dead horse. c) he is town and is way behind on schedule.

You forgot d) Richard is pretty newbish and is putting too much stock into the events of Mafia 107.

[Korts]

The argument boils down to "he addressed the town

awkwardly

when it wasn't necessary according to his projected motives!!!"

Fixed. That's my understanding of the case, at least.

[Korts]

The scenarios Richard's post fits into are the following: a) he is scum, partnered with Izzy, and trying to deflect any remaining attention from her. b) he is scum, and Izzy is town; he is either trying to get brownie points from her eventual lynch and get into her favor, or he is trying to somehow direct attention back to her by beating a dead horse. c) he is town and is way behind on schedule.

You forgot d) Richard is pretty newbish and is putting too much stock into the events of Mafia 107.

This doesn't really explain why he'd take a stand against a wagon that's already lost its momentum, in the face of actually discussing relevant points.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

He's trying to be useful and failing. It's covered by the newbish part.

[Shanba]

You know what? Let's get this wagon up and running.

Unvote Vote: mipe

[Shanba]

TSQ should move over, too.

[Quagmire]

The argument boils down to "he addressed the town

awkwardly

when it wasn't necessary according to his projected motives!!!"

Fixed. That's my understanding of the case, at least.

Which still is a silly argument.

Still not buying the newb on Vasuveda - that's not what concerns me about his play. I'll post a detailed post tonight probably.

[Quagmire]

You know what? Let's get this wagon up and running.

Unvote Vote: mipe

Come on man, you're better than that.