Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[SlySly]

Sure, but either way he's lying to us about his actions and claiming that he's trying to help us by telling us the truth of his actions. There's no pro-Town motivation to do that. Whatsoever.

I'm telling the truth about my actions, insanities and noises heard. The pro-town motivation was for filling EK's chart.

I'm putting my money on Sly being Cult because of one or two of his interactions with Nico &c., but it's quite possible he's a Murderer.

I'm putting my money on scum being on my wagon hard. Before my insanity reveals, you had made 3 entire posts in the game. Since seeing my fresh blood in the water, you have returned like the lurking shark you are. Most of that stack of my money would be on you flipping scum since you were the first voting me for basically nothing and have returned with a vengeance to make sure and help finish me off.

Thing is, if he thought about becoming a Murderer Night 0 and took Taboo Launder or whatever, and now he says he reformed and is going the Townie way all the way,

why is he insisting he took Compulsion that Night?

. As Town he wouldn't, so his story simply isn't true. This is a case where Lynch All Liars is beyond perfectly applicable.

Thing is, I stalked Amished on N0 and took compulsion and had full intentions of becoming murderer. Just because you find that unlikely for me to do, doesn't mean you are right. The events of D1 firmly changed my mind about being murderer and that is why I picked up Occult Books on N1 instead of following through with the murder.

The other thing is, now there are murderers out there and you, and others, are busy wasting time on me while they, and scum, are jumping on my easy wagon because a few people are finding it hard to understand the reasoning of person who has already been pointed out as being an off the wall thinker.

[SlySly]

Let's review what I was talking about during the early phase of this game and see if it matches my insanity reveals and my reasoning for timing...

------------------

1. I state my belief that claims are pro-town and a way to lead to town victory (Adel was vehement against any type of claims, I highly disagreed about that. My reveals were to help with EK's chart.)

I'm not claiming day 2.

Noise, action and insanity claims in the first game led to an overwhelming town victory. What better alternative do you suggest? A hardline stance against claims providing a tracking system for the town seems a little anti-town to me.

-----------------

2. I bring up checking people with Occult Books several times very early in the game (After the Ani debacle got into full swing, I knew I was going to take Occult Books on N1 and if I survived that long to commune someone on N2.) I was hoping someone may have picked some OBs on N0 and could validate ani's claim. It came to a point where it didn't matter after the vote test.

If he is covering up a future insanity, that could be validated if someone has Occult Books and used them on Ani.

If he is covering up a future insanity, that could be validated if someone has Occult Books and used them on Ani.

On Night 0?

No, N1. If the OB user has 0 insanity, as should be the case right now, and Ani is lying, the results would be negative as Ani would have 0 insanity as well.

Effect: You learn whether your target has (strictly) more

Insanities

than you.

I'm not quite sure where you get the certainty to make such bold statements. How do we

know

that Ani isn't cult fake-claiming an insanity so that he can kill in the ritual tonight? How are you so sure that Ani is telling the truth about his insanity this time, as opposed to another lie? I am far from convinced that Ani is "obvInvestigator" as you say.

He can be checked with Occult Books. If he has no insanity, he is lying scum. If he does, he is either idiot town or stalker town. Town = worse lynch than scum. Pushing for town instead of scum hunting = proScum. I think he has an insanity NOW and was just trying to explain it off. I am more than willing to believe he stalked.

If it is because he is scum and trying to cover up a future insanity, which I find highly unlikely, that can be checked with Occult Books.

Even Chaco chimes in that I am thinking correctly about my understanding of OB usage.

Yeah, Sly and Semi have the right idea on using the occult books.

And iLord acknowledges his misunderstanding of OB usage.

No, N1. If the OB user has 0 insanity, as should be the case right now, and Ani is lying, the results would be negative as Ani would have 0 insanity as well

Ah okay, I thought Commune happened after Insanity gained from Ritual.

-----------------

3. Being the first person to believe ani had stalked after his admitting his laundering lie (takes a stalker to know and believe one). I was about the only person willing to believe Ani's story, even after the insanity validation check was done via vote test on him. Also, I point out that not all stalkers have to become murderers.

I explained it plenty well. And, I was right. Once he revealed he had stalked, obviousness struck that he was obvTown trying to cover his insanity with a bogus Launder claim. It was pretty clear before that that he wasn't cult, you just weren't willing to accept it openly.

Wait, what could've scumAni done to gain an insanity? Stalk?

Prerequisites: You must be an

Investigator

or a

Murderer

.

As I stated before, I would rather lynch scum than a later potential murderer. Ani is not a murderer yet and may not become one. Ani voters, start scum hunting.

------------------

4. I clearly state my hating game breakers and opposition to ell's plan

Sly, tell me what's wrong with my plan from your Point of view.

It is still a variant of a game breaker.

I am not participating in Ell's plan.

------------------

5. I call ell naive for expect stalkers to claim after the trouble ani and ell brought upon themselves doing so at that point in the game.

I think anyone who stalked N0 and want to still win the game should claim.

I think counting on such is somewhat naive.

-------------------

Here is my one lie where I was trying to avoid the unneeded early heat that ani and ell brought on themselves. If I get lynched for this one lie, it is not a total loss as the town will at least know that Magua had 1 or less insanities last night and that my claimed insanity count is true. But keep in mind, there are others that didn't come forward as N0 stalkers either, and they are now murders, unlike me. They are probably among those on my wagon now or the source of the noise I heard last night and planning to murder me tonight anyway.

I also want to say that I really dislike Sly's discussion of "vigs" throughout the thread. Nobody should be taking insanities and taking the path of MURDERERS in an effort to "vig" for the town. If you want someone dead that bad, let's lynch them.

You know no one ever agrees with my lynch targets!!! EVER!!!

Rest easy, I did not Stalk on N0 and have no intention of doing so on N1.

----------------

Do those that have played with me before actually believe that I would plant things this far ahead only to reveal them and put myself under fire when being under no pressure at all?

If you believe that, why didn't I point all of these things out immediately when the crosshairs got locked on me?

Occum's Razor.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't have any insanities.

[iLord]

I want to have one probable scum combined with one nonscum for our bodies. The reason for this is that in the case of say, star, he's got 3 insanities. He's quite likely going to have nothing on him. Therefore, we should not have a robber assigned to rob both him and say CSL (or SlySly). Too easy to duck out and commit a murder/cult action and not be able to check it. Unless I'm missing something, I'm recommending changing the combinations.

It doesn't really matter if we're double robbing since whichever two people are robbing the scum can both risk not robbing, no matter the order. So really, there's no real difference between a player who's robbing two scum and robbing one scum. Don't forget that scum might very well have rez kits, as well. The only way to absolutely discourage scum is to make them rob two townies, which I have done with Elli and DGB.

I'll modify it to, so that a maybemurderer alternates with the maybecultists. This way, if both tried to duck out, then start/Sly's body would be unrobbed and we would've caught two scum:

Semi robs CSL + Iec
Elli robs Iec + Katy.
DGB robs Katy + Phate.
Dramonic robs Phate + Start
kunkstar robs Start + Sly
Magua robs Sly + CSL

Do those that have played with me before actually believe that I would plant things this far ahead only to reveal them and put myself under fire when being under no pressure at all?

If you believe that, why didn't I point all of these things out immediately when the crosshairs got locked on me?

Occum's Razor.

I can't speak for playing with you, but your primary argument for yourself is that no scum in their right mind would do what you've done. That in its very definition is WIFOM and makes a fine reason why you revealed yourself - you felt that the town would believe that you're town simply from the unlikeliness of the situation.

Just a question, if he chose not to lynch you and for you to grave rob two people, would you do so?

[DrippingGoofball]

I can rob two graves? Aren't I better rezzing someone?

[iLord]

I can rob two graves? Aren't I better rezzing someone?

That's really up to the town to collectively decide, but if it was up to me, you're supposed to rob two graves.

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

[iLord]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

Eh, that's arguable actually, since we seem to have quite a few scum in the dead bodies.

With doubling up, we have a chance of stopping up to 6 people. Without doubling, we almost guarantee stopping 3 people.

After thinking about it, I actually prefer the guarantee of single robbing. If we choose that, my choice would be:

Elli robs Iec + Katy
DGB robs Phate + Start
Dramonic robs Sly + CSL

[elvis_knits]

[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/Notes[col]Insanities Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Rezzed by Plum [col]Laundered[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failed[col]1 - due to rez (twitchy) Magua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?[col]?

CSL(Col.Cathart)

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-lynched-[col]Elli stalked-murdered/failed[col]2 (expected cult) dramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] Noise:No [col]Noise: No[col]?[col]? DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes/Rezzed elvis [col]Noise:Yes (fetish) /Rezzed elvis[col]?[col]1 from fetish Ellibereth[col]Stalked CSL[col] Murdered CSL [col]Search Forensics kit[col]?[col]Atleast 2

Iecerint

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col](not yet flipped)[col]0 iLord[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Rezzed Phate [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0

Phate

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Cult target/Rezzed [col]Cult Kill[col]? [col]1 (presumably due to being rezzed)

Sajin

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col]Flipped Investigator[col]0 Plum/Sarag [col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Rezzed Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes(fetish)[col]Has like 2 posts[col] 1 from fetish

Katy/Seacore

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Murdered [col] - [col]?[col] 0 vikingfan[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:no[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col](Commune?)[col]1 - Aversion (elvis) Animorperv[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col]Robbed grav/Searched Forensics kit [col]No actions due to too many II's[col] ?[col]3 kunkstar/Drench[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Murdered Adel/Hayker [col]Occult books[col]Claims Drench went murderer but kunk went back to investigator[col]2 taboo launder, twitchy Evilsnail[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]?[col]0 rewq/faraday[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col] Forensic kit [col]Checked ANi (not bloody)[col]?[col]0

Nico

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Lynched D1 [col] -[col]Dead cult yay![col]0 Semioldguy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:Yes [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0 SLy[col](Noise:No Ward:No) Stalk AMished/Magua [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:Yes Commune Magua[col]Stalked Amished, then thought better of it, wants to go legit?[col]2 - Compulsion, Hallucination

Startransmission

[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]Murdered[col]?[col] 3 VP[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Adel) Warded by Wicked [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col]Ward on Adel failed N1 due to wicked warding him[col]0 Chaco[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Dram)[col]Stalk Startransmission[col]Murdered startransmission[col]?[col] 2 elvis[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes (DGB)[col]Noise:yes Searched:Rez Kit[col]Noise:Yes(Fetish) Rezzed(somebody that wasn't targetted)[col]?[col]1 - taboo launder wicked[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(VP)[col]Noise:No[col]Noise:No[col]?[col]0

[Hayker]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

If we double rob, and someone doesn't rob, then the other person who robbed gets equipment, thus revealing that someone didn't rob.

[iLord]

Magua, Dramonic, and Elli are the only ones left to claim insanities?

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

If we double rob, and someone doesn't rob, then the other person who robbed gets equipment, thus revealing that someone didn't rob.

So if two people rob one grave, nobody gets equipment?

What if the person didn't have equipment anyway? We can't us that as a check. For instance, Startransmission prob doesn't have equipment. In order for him to get 3 insanities, he was doing evil things instead of searching.

[Plum]

I'll be V/LA this weekend.

[elvis_knits]

Hey I want to post my scum/town list. Is that okay? I normally do that in every game but is there any reason why the mechanics in this game prohibit it?

[vikingfan]

Go right ahead, elvis.

[iLord]

So if two people rob one grave, nobody gets equipment?

What if the person didn't have equipment anyway? We can't us that as a check. For instance, Startransmission prob doesn't have equipment. In order for him to get 3 insanities, he was doing evil things instead of searching.

Good point about start - I tried to make it so that it was one possible murderer and one possible cultist on him so neither would want to break it for fear of the other would and then both of them would be outed, but there's too many variables at play here to make it worth the extra 3 blocks.

You can go ahead and post your town/scum list - we need to pick our top 3 suspects after SlySly to grave rob anyway.

[elvis_knits]

Town:
ilord
vikingfan
evilsnail
rewq
VP
Chaco (watch out Rambo)
elvis
wicked
Ani (see below)

Netherworld:
Hayker(Adel)
Magua(amished)
Plum
SoG

People claiming reformed murderers (distrust):
Elli

Ani

(despite him being reformed murder and my general distrust of this category, I think Ani has to be town. Confirmed insanity D1 makes him not cult. Loss of action last night makes it pretty hard for him to be a murderer)
Sly
Kunkstar/Drench

Almost definitely scum:
Dram
DGB

My thinking is that most of the people claiming 0 insanities seem town to me anyway, so I am fairly confident they are town. As the game goes on, spot-checks using occult books would be good to verify that these people aren't lying. And as always, use regular scum hunting to see if people seem scummy. For instance, ilord and evilsnail are prob town to me due to interactions with Nico.

SoG said something about it being possible for cultists to have 0 insanities. I think that is possible, if the cult has designated only certain people to do ritual, and certain people are only crafting/sending fetishes/rezzing. So we should keep this in mind. However, if we pick off the cultists doing the ritual, the others are forced to participate and start gaining insanities.

[elvis_knits]

I'm thinking that Dram and DGB are likely murderers. I mean, they could be cult too, but I haven't seen a lot of connections between them and other players, no real cooperation or anything. And they seem to be trying to fly under the radar.

I think that Elli may be a murderer. Possibly cult, but I think probably murderer/investigator.

I think SoG might be a murderer. He doesn't seem to be playing cooperatively with others. However, his 0 insanity claim is verifiable. If he has any insanities, he will need death. If he doesn't, he could always be cult, but I would feel better about him.

I think that Kunkstar/Drench is cult. And I think the way that Hayker/Adel, Plum, Magua, are backing them up suggests they might all be cult. I also think Sly is cult, and I think the way elli and plum are calling sly town is suspect. This little group of incestuous claims/irrational support of each other represents the people I most suspect to be cult.

[elvis_knits]

The people I'd like to see graverob are Dram and DGB for sure, and one of Elli or Sog.

[iLord]

Plum thinks SlySly is scum, I believe. Elli's saying SlySly's town because he's a similar position - calling him scum would mean in essence calling himself scum, so he's

forced

to say he thinks SlySly's town.

Otherwise, you're cool with Dram/DGB/Elli robbing, right?

[dramonic]

I've a single insanity, aversion to Magua.

proof:

Vote: Magua

Insanity Infraction

[dramonic]

to prove the insanity is not twitchy:

Unvote
Vote: SlySly

[iLord]

Hey, Dramonic, if you're chosen to rob two graves, you will oblige, correct?

How'd you get your insanity?

[dramonic]

Commune, got a town result. Should I claim on who?
(hint, it's not on Sly)

Also, I'll oblige if graverobbing is required of me, although I still think it'd be more efficient to dual rob, at least on the people we think are town.

[iLord]

Commune, got a town result. Should I claim on who?

Eh, for the benefit of anyone else Communing tonight, I'm inclined to say yes.

Also, I'll oblige if graverobbing is required of me, although I still think it'd be more efficient to dual rob, at least on the people we think are town.

That's actually a better idea. Once more with feeling:

Elli robs Iec + Katy
semi robs Katy + Phate
DGB robs Phate + Start
Dramonic robs Sly + CSL

With Katy and Phate assumed to have a decent chance of having equipment.