Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[Lacey]

Here is my logic, broken down into little bite size chunks for you:

Thanks this is actually helpful.

• 1: KMD and Lacey both tried to end the day early
  2: Lacey accused KMD of being scummy for trying to end the day early
  3:The hypocritical accusation from Lacey is what I find scummy

Except your ordering is wrong.

• 1: KMD tries to end the day early. Suggests a swap. If I flip town, he offers himself in exchange.
  2: I note the problem with his offer. If he truly believes I am mafia, it doesn't mean he has lynched his team mate due to the unique setup.
  3: I call him on his offer, and decide to boldly force him to, in the words of the movie Zombieland, "Nut up or shut up", and show us his hand.
  4: This doesn't change the situation at all. It's not like he offered me the trade, he offered town the trade. Regardless of my response, he was still pushing for the day to end early.

If I had offered to trade and self voted, I would agree it could be seen as hypocritical. But my action in no way furthered a goal of an early day end by lynching me, as I voted KMD, not myself.

[Sando]

Ok, well my ordering isn't wrong, you've just broken #1 down into more pieces, and I agree with your version of events for the most part, but it's not those events that I think is scummy. My #1 was just a gross simplification of events, because I didn't find those events scummy.

KMD tried to end the day early, you agreed to it, and I feel that in agreeing, you also tried to end the day early. You agreed to what you've stated was an attempt to end the day early, I don't see how you can say that you didn't try and further that aim.

[Lacey]

Ok, well my ordering isn't wrong, you've just broken #1 down into more pieces, and I agree with your version of events for the most part, but it's not those events that I think is scummy. My #1 was just a gross simplification of events, because I didn't find those events scummy.

KMD tried to end the day early, you agreed to it, and I feel that in agreeing, you also tried to end the day early. You agreed to what you've stated was an attempt to end the day early, I don't see how you can say that you didn't try and further that aim.

I disagree with your reasoning, but I think we'll have to just agree to disagree on this.

[farside22]

@ farside: Players should be responsible enough to do that.

*list mod voice*
Your the mod and it's your responsiblity. I see a mod kill in this game and I'm pulling the plug so fast it's not even going to be funny.

[farside22]

@ farside: Players should be responsible enough to do that.

*list mod voice*
Your the mod and it's your responsiblity. I see a mod kill in this game and I'm pulling the plug so fast it's not even going to be funny.

Just so it's clear I mean for those who don't turn over their role info to haylen. That should not be a mod killable offense.

*list mod voice off*

[TheLonging]

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

Did I miss the part where you said why you thought he was a correct lynch?

What happened to Lacey kmd?

[Kmd4390]

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

Did I miss the part where you said why you thought he was a correct lynch?

What happened to Lacey kmd?

Lacey is town.

[DTMaster]

@Sandora
1. Huh, ok given that you posted before KMD, you didn't have a chance to read this:

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

KMD is attacking me with the same ferocity as Lacey. I still don't see your logic behind your KMD-scum = his scum hunting. KMD pressured heavily on Lacey until she said: "Lynch me to Lynch you yaddayadda". And then switch to a Town-Lacey case.

@Farside
1. TheLonging for one. Goro is newb + new to this site.

In your words TQO, if Goro is being useless and not contributing to the game, then why should we keep him around?

I present to you a gift via UncertainKitten. Let's check GoroHonda's posts. Oh mai the last post he did was in this game, he isn't actively lurking (unless someone gets a screen shot).

http://www.msutils.net/search.php

@Longing (con't @Farside)
To Longing: Why don't you wait a couple more days till prods/replacement/yadda yadda. CSL hasn't issued a crazy deadline like last game, we have time right now.

To me, Farside sums this up quite well. It feels more like lurker lynching then scum hunting.

@Con't farside.
If I had to lynch someone today, I would lynch Longing. I wanted more reads on Jacob/Goro. Last time I jumped the gun, I got Gayle/Mavs wrong. I was narrowing it down on Pom/You 2.0 only after I calmed down and reread the game with the flips. New approach in scum hunting = trying to get better.

2. Actually, did you answer Goro's questions? They are inane yes, but I can't remember. I'll reread later to confirm.

@TQO
1. Given that he is new, let's just give him a couple more posts. If he doesn't get better, then there are effective methods to get reads on him. I wouldn't be too worried about it right now.

@KMD
No. I'm not the correct lynch today. We can compromise: You can tunnel on me, I'll just multitask defend/scumhunt/pressure in the meantime.

@Gheb
Oh wow we have springlullaby playing this game x.x. Her last post was on Wednesday in GD/Mish mash stuff. Hmmz it's not strong enough for an active lurking call.

@Jacob
If you think KMD is scum, why is your vote still on Longing?

@Longing
Hold on, did you read this game at all? KMD declared he thinks Lacey is town already a few pages back.

[DTMaster]

Ugh forgot to do this.

Unvote

Vote: TheLonging

Jacob has posted somewhat sufficently. It'll depend on his response if I switch back. Plus Spring/Goro needs to post as Gheb states.

@CSL
Can you prod Goro/Spring tomorrow, if they don't post!

[Sando]

@Sandora
1. Huh, ok given that you posted before KMD, you didn't have a chance to read this:

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I expected from KMD and the lack of till now was what was making me suspicious. The way it was delivered makes me think town.

[The Quintastic One]

As far as who I believe to be scummy so far, Thelonging voting for GoroHonda isn’t super scummy, but it’s awkward because he’s essentially voting on 2 posts that mean nothing until Goro elaborates as to why he’s being so useless. Lol.

This is pretty scummy, in answer to your own question of who you think is scummy, you say that 1 particular person 'isn't super scummy'. No commitment to scumhunting at all.

There's a difference between scumhunting and looking scummy while doing it, and looking scummy because you're not scumhunting.

Whatever you say boss. Calling me scummy isn't going to force me to have any stronger reads than I already have. So pressure me all you want, you're not going to force me to make a commitment I don't feel comfortable making.

[springlullaby]

Farside, what do you feel about the KMD/Lacey deal? It's very curious to me that you would still continue you case on her after it happened because I think something like that is very likely to polarize town's read on her.

I think she's been giving off very strong scum vibe before the trade offer, but has gone back to more or less neutral with her position on Kmd. And think Kmd looks the more scummy for it so it's curious to me that you would pursue her so.

[The Quintastic One]

He already dropped his case against Lacey due to not wanting to distract the town with another argument like the one he had with Gayle.


Is it just me or are there certain people not paying attention to this game and just posting for the sake of posting?

I don't believe in policy lynching though, so I will ask you SL: Disregarding Farsides argument with Lacey, do you find anyone particularly scummy?

(eagerly awaits the anticipated response of "You, TQO. Because everytime you post you're scum, regardless of actual alignment.")

[CSL]

Goro is being prodded upon request. He has 2 prods remaining. Additionally, if he does not respond to his prod in two days, as per the rules, force replace (I think that's the same as an auto-replace).

[Kmd4390]

I still don't see your logic behind your KMD-scum = his scum hunting

^This.

I'd scumhunt the same as scum in this game as I would as town. Especially considering scum can't NK the other scum group.

Also, can you elaborate on your TheLonging vote please? I'm not reading him as scum.

------------------

In other news, Spring is scum.

[farside22]

Farside, what do you feel about the KMD/Lacey deal? It's very curious to me that you would still continue you case on her after it happened because I think something like that is very likely to polarize town's read on her.

I think she's been giving off very strong scum vibe before the trade offer, but has gone back to more or less neutral with her position on Kmd. And think Kmd looks the more scummy for it so it's curious to me that you would pursue her so.

I think lacey is either being stubborn town or is scum. I have decided yet and it's difficult to tell. I still find her scummy but someone pointed out her reasoning. She's jumpy as all get out on a vote for her. Things like that just seem off. Her exchange put her as possible town.
Kmd strikes me as town. Now the only thing I could see with lacey and kmd is a scum act together to buss each other but on day 1??? I see scum hiding and hoping not to get lynched as it betters their odds of winning.
Why does kmd look more scummy to you? This is vague reasoning here.

[farside22]

He already dropped his case against Lacey due to not wanting to distract the town with another argument like the one he had with Gayle.


Is it just me or are there certain people not paying attention to this game and just posting for the sake of posting?

I don't believe in policy lynching though, so I will ask you SL: Disregarding Farsides argument with Lacey, do you find anyone particularly scummy?

(eagerly awaits the anticipated response of "You, TQO. Because everytime you post you're scum, regardless of actual alignment.")

TQO this is better. I don't like your AtE or attitude on it. Feels like a personal issue though. I also note that is springs first real post and it says very little so many pages in.

[JacobSavage]

@DTMaster

So far in that, I am more cautious towards going down defiantly.
And for the record, I don't think that KMD is defiantly scum, I was just commenting on the subtle change in attitude between this game and last

[The Quintastic One]

He already dropped his case against Lacey due to not wanting to distract the town with another argument like the one he had with Gayle.


Is it just me or are there certain people not paying attention to this game and just posting for the sake of posting?

I don't believe in policy lynching though, so I will ask you SL: Disregarding Farsides argument with Lacey, do you find anyone particularly scummy?

(eagerly awaits the anticipated response of "You, TQO. Because everytime you post you're scum, regardless of actual alignment.")

TQO this is better. I don't like your AtE or attitude on it. Feels like a personal issue though. I also note that is springs first real post and it says very little so many pages in.

It is a personal issue, hence why this is my last game on Mafia like I said in my original post. I'm trying to scumhunt but my heart isn't into it as much as it used to be since the fallout of Wickedjesters Mafia game. And I've sort of given up trying to defend myself against accusations since I could post "Hey guys, would you like to hear a funny joke?" and it would still be analyzed as scummy. But that's more discussion for the end game and such and such.

What I'm saying is, basically kinda like what DTM is saying. If you think I'm scummy, vote for me. But I'm going to continue on scumhunting, analyzing and drawing connections between players. I'm not going to bother defending myself against baseless accusations since that's just how I play the game, whether you find it scummy or not.

[The Quintastic One]

Her exchange put her as possible town.
Kmd strikes me as town. Now the only thing I could see with lacey and kmd is a scum act together to buss each other but on day 1??? I see scum hiding and hoping not to get lynched as it betters their odds of winning.
Why does kmd look more scummy to you? This is vague reasoning here.

It does feel like it's a town vs. town argument. But I've had a few experiences where scum played the ultimate gambit of demanding that the town lynch them in order to prove that they are town. The town saw this behavior as something scum would never do and let him go. He was eventually lynched anyway down the road but that saved him for several days. So "suicidal townie" does not equate confirmed town play in my eyes.

Also, there is incentive for Lacey and KMD to knock each other off if they are in the same scumteam. Yeah it would make it alot harder for their faction to win, but they wouldn't have to worry about any connections or buddying and distancing accusations, since they are working alone. KMD could be seeing that Lacey is a very stubborn and bull headed player that will only attract more attention to his faction of scum and will want to get rid of her as quickly as possible.

But that doesn't explain how both would be willing to offer themselves up as dual lynches. Which brings me right back to Point #1 where I think it COULD theoretically be a scum gambit.

[The Quintastic One]

EBWOP: Also, if say, KMD were to cause Lacey's lynch, and she flipped scum, the town would see that KMD was right and that he is trust worthy since he "helped" lynch scum on Day 1. Which when you get it right like that you're basically confirmed town, superficially.

[CSL]

Expect a votecount shortly

[CSL]

Flavor

Podiums still flicker on and off as accusations fly. You hear the chatter in the background, and overhead fan starts to spin. You hear clatter of middle school students as they walk by the enterance of the gymnasium, happy to be alive and not in situations like this. They don't even know what's going on, except Maemuki, who was still shocked after finding Haylen's body when they all entered the building almost an hour earlier...

The breezy votecount

kmd4390 (L-6) Lacey
Fongoid (L-7)
farside22 (L-7)
Sando (L-7)
The Quintastic One (L-7)
Gheb (L-7)
springlullaby (L-5) Gheb, farside22
DTMaster (L-5) GoroHonda, kmd4390
GoroHonda (L-6) TheLonging
Lacey (L-5) Sando, Fongoid
TheLonging (L-5) JacobSavage, DTMaster
JacobSavage (L-7)

Not voting: Everyone else

With 12 alive, 7 will lynch

This will likely be my last votecount until Sunday.

[farside22]

I'm sorry to hear this may be your last game TQO. You could have CSL issue where everyone wants to lynch you day one as a policy lynch.

That said I think I'm moving my vote now.

unvote:
vote: Spring

1) There isn't enough for me to find DTM scum. It's based on gut and his overall play this game that just rubs me wrong
2) Spring is what is known as actively lurking and offering next to nothing game wise.

[CSL]

Haylen has received all info. I had to help, of course. Haylen is your mod until I post, saying I returned, on Sunday.