Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[theopor_COD]

/Confirm

Vote Richard Massive

[theopor_COD]

F*ckx sakes 7 pages! Go away for two days and this happens!

[VasudeVa]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

[scotmany12]

What? No, I was waiting for more interactions BEFORE I scumhunt. Jeesus, I didn't say that I would push for a claim THEN scumhunt, I was going to see if I get a claim, if not then I'll try my best to scumhunt. Yes, but I dislike him getting of the wagon he originally started only to vote for me for some reason.

This is exactly why im voting for you. You are pushing for someone to claim for nothing instead of scumhunting when there is plenty of stuff going on to scumhunt off of. That doesn't help the town at all. Scumhunting should not be a secondary option if forcing someone to claim fails; scumhunting is the town's most powerful tool. Also, if Korts has a reason to vote for you, why shouldn't he get off the izzy wagon? Why shouldn't he get off of a wagon that was started randomly to pursue someone he finds scummy?

I do see why he would find it as blatant opportunism. However the main difference between me and the other people on the wagon is my attempt at transparency. Everyone else voted without trying to even explain it. So, why tunnel on me when there could be other people to target?

No one is tunneling on you.

Is it like a "pro" move to suddenly vote for people without explaining your actions if you are town? I do not comprehend. Please explain.

...both me and Korts have explained why we switched our votes to you.

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place

. Furthermore, my "Did anyone else see this?" was not meant as a "Look here everybody! Someone scummy". When someone says a statement like "I don't scumhunt Day 1" that automatically sticks out in my mind, and no one had seemed to have noticed it so I asked that question.

You're wording of your post addressing him implies otherwise. People don't believe you when you said "Did anyone else see this?" as that sounds like you were drawing attention to him and trying to get others to vote for him. Your first action was to make sure everyone else was aware of this before telling Richard what was wrong with that.

[scotmany12]

I think that getting power roles to claim would be cool though. Stuff like, knowing a princess so we can protect or a day-vig we can use. I read somewhere that townies unconciously do want to claim. We can take their claims with a grain of salt. If they lied, it's an easy lynch.

No...we want to keep power roles hidden. What if you were to force izzy to claim and she came out to be a doc? That would be a bad situation. Forcing people to claim is just giving the scum more information.

[scotmany12]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Wait...what? You'd be willing to switch to the Dahill wagon because he only posts one sentence posts? Not because he is scummy and that you dislike his interaction with Richard? How is only posting one sentence posts scummy at all? It's not like his posts are void of all content.

[dahill1]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

[VasudeVa]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Wait...what? You'd be willing to switch to the Dahill wagon because he only posts one sentence posts? Not because he is scummy and that you dislike his interaction with Richard? How is only posting one sentence posts scummy at all? It's not like his posts are void of all content.

Izzy wagon seems to be going nowwhere. My vote is wasted. His wagon seems to be going somewhere. An easy switch, if you ask me.

No...we want to keep power roles hidden. What if you were to force izzy to claim and she came out to be a doc? That would be a bad situation. Forcing people to claim is just giving the scum more information.

Then don't claim doc. But I see your point now. My main idea was to get cop claims and if we have a doc, then scum should start urinating their pants. But it's a giant if. I'd like my closed games to be a little less confusing though and that's what I think I should do.

This is exactly why im voting for you. You are pushing for someone to claim for nothing instead of scumhunting when there is plenty of stuff going on to scumhunt off of. That doesn't help the town at all. Scumhunting should not be a secondary option if forcing someone to claim fails; scumhunting is the town's most powerful tool. Also, if Korts has a reason to vote for you, why shouldn't he get off the izzy wagon? Why shouldn't he get off of a wagon that was started randomly to pursue someone he finds scummy?

Not really pushing, more like hoping that someone will claim. Anyway I don't really feel like voting for you now since taking this much effort to correct noobish little me is not something that scum would do. Korts, on the other hand..... I'll wait on his response.

No one is tunneling on you.

My newb senses saw it as tunneling. That and I'm a paranoid little mofo. Sue me.

...both me and Korts have explained why we switched our votes to you.

You might have, he still hasn't.

Unvote

Thinking.

[scotmany12]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

Yes, but it's a big gap between you and VasudeVa right now.

[VasudeVa]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

No, short posts mean little town contribution.

Kinda funky how you're trying to redirect attention to me. HEY GUISE, IS DIS A SCUMTELL? I DUN KNO LOL.

[dahill1]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

No, short posts mean little town contribution.

Kinda funky how you're trying to redirect attention to me. HEY GUISE, IS DIS A SCUMTELL? I DUN KNO LOL.

That's not true at all. Little

content

means little town contribution, but I'd like to say I've significantly contributed so far. If you're looking for no contribution, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

And lol @ I'm trying to redirect attention to you. You seem to think that everyone who asks you a question or is critical of you in the slightest is TUNNELING SCUM!!!

Izzy wagon seems to be going nowwhere. My vote is wasted. His wagon seems to be going somewhere. An easy switch, if you ask me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just you switching to (in your words) the "eas[ier]" wagon

even when you just said you didn't think I was scummy

.

Unvote, vote: Vas

[dahill1]

Sorry, you said you weren't entirely convinced on me..not you didn't think I was scummy my bad. But the vote still stands since the sentiment on your part was pretty much the same.

[Thestatusquo]

Read between the lines-y, like too much "Hey dude, look at what he said" rather than "Hey dude, look at who he voted". I'm not entirely convinced by the dahill wagon because of just that. The reason why I rode on the Izzy wagon was because I thought you were policy lynching due to meta or pushing for claims which is something I'm very comfortable with. Watching for freudian slips, however, is not my cup of tea. Feel free to point and laugh, but this is how I play.

Ok, I see what you're saying.

The problem with this interpretation is two fold.

First of all, scum actions are not always votes. They are much more often subtle things that cause the game to move in a certain way. This case is actually a perfect example of that. Scum doesn't vote for a player, but tries to steer the town in a direction that causes a misslynch. Scums most powerful manipulations don't come from where they place their votes, but rather where they do not vote. Throwing support behind a wagon through words but not re-enforcing it with actions is scummy (no vote) trying to later claim that you never thought the action was scummy in the first place is even more suspicious, because the only thing his action accomplishes is bad for the town.

Second of all, you're opening yourself up to a whole hell of a lot of WIFOM (wifom refers to a situation where there is about a 50-50 chance that a scum or town player would make that action, so speculation on it is worthless. It stems from the scene in princess bride with the wine cups. Did I put the wine in front of you, or did I put the wine in front of me? Both things are equally likely, so speculating on which glass the poison is in is somewhat pointless.) What this means is that sometimes scum voting patterns are helpful, but sometimes they are not. Sometimes scum vote for only townies. Sometimes they vote for scum to throw townies off the trail. Sometimes they bus (attempt to lynch their scummates to appear more townie.) therefore the only thing that we can reliably use to find scum is to look at the actions they are taking through their motivations. Asking yourself "What does this action accomplish" is a very helpful thing to do. Would a scum or a town player be more likely to take this action. THIS is scumhunting. In this case, I think Dahills action is much more likely from scum, and day 1, when there isn't a whole heck of a lot to go off of, makes it a very good wagon.

[VasudeVa]

I wasn't convinced before, but I am now. He does try to get attention away from him(and does a bad job at it). I'm comfortable with the attention I have on me(Although I do piss poor job at posting my reactions to them), but he is trying to save his ass by getting mine lynched.

Vote dahil

BTW, thanks for the insightful posts.

[dahill1]

I wasn't convinced before, but I am now. He does try to get attention away from him(and does a bad job at it). I'm comfortable with the attention I have on me(Although I do piss poor job at posting my reactions to them), but he is trying to save his ass by getting mine lynched.

Vote dahil

BTW, thanks for the insightful posts.

Even further evidence that Vas is scum, look how short his post is!!!

In all seriousness, what would you have said if I attacked someone else besides you? That I'm redirecting the attention on me onto them?

[Korts]

I'm tipsy and tired.

unvote: VasudeVa

, he's just a newbie who has read too many games and not enough theory, with no experience to counteract the lack thereof. I suggest you go find the Mafia Discussion forum and read threads by the dozen, paying attention to individual theorists' reputation (join dates and in-thread interactions should give you a fair idea of who knows better and who's a nitwit).

As for me not explaining my vote, it's all fecking there in the post. Concentrate on the rhetorical questions if you still don't get it, but you seem to have gotten it, because you concede that opportunism can be seen in your actions. Well, opportunism is scummy in most if not all cases.

Imma come back to the thread tomorrow, when I'm not about to fall asleep.

[Thestatusquo]

I love korts.

I agree almost entirely with his posts summation of vas. He strikes me as too involved for noob scum, his lack of theory knowledge reads as genuine to me, and as scum I think I would be expecting him to be less willing to posts his thoughts on controversial topics related to the game. He has opinions, and he's sharing them, they're just structured by his overall newness. And his openness about them gives me good vibes.

Not to toot my own horn, but this article I wrote might be helpful to you:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12228

[Shanba]

New not othersitemeta equally explains the badtheory vibes I was getting from VaVa. Reading other games is an excellent way to hone your mafia instincts, imo, but it's not so good for learning basic theory, as most of the time that is simply assumed. Like the others said, MD is better for that.

dahill's jump on the VaVa wagon is silly and scummy. What's more, he hasn't responded to either scot's clarification of the case against him or mine.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, scot is probably also scum. Just sayin'

[DeathNote]

~PaltryExcuse replaces Chevre. Thanks PaltryExcuse!~

[Thestatusquo]

Awesome. Thanks mod!

Paltry, when you read up please answer the following questions:

What do you think is the best wagon?

Who do you think is most likely to be scum at this point (at least three options please)

Who do you think is most likely to be town at this point? (same)

What do you think is the most optimum scum strategy on day one in a large normal game, and whos play do you think most mirrors this strategy?

What players do you think are not receiving enough attention?

What players do you think are receiving too much attention?

[dahill1]

dahill's jump on the VaVa wagon is silly and scummy. What's more, he hasn't responded to either scot's clarification of the case against him or mine.

How so?

Scot's I thought was strange considering he hadn't even mentioned me before in any of his posts.

As for yours, to be completely honest, I can't really think of any other way to explain or defend it. You guys interpreted my post in one way and I meant for it in another way.

[PaltryExcuse]

Hello everyone! So... I'm replacing for a person who hasn't posted. At all.

I'll get an analysis up tomorrow.

[inHimshallibe]

unvote

vote: dahill

Care to throw a teammate under the bus on your way out?

[mipe]

Why is it that when I ask you a question, I get voted and fobbed off, but when anon and scotmany ask you the same question, you give them an explanation? Also, how is semi-random the same as "serious? no!" since you were clearly at least partially serious.

1. At that time, I thought you would be better choice to vote.

2. Your name starts with 'Shan' and ends with 'ba'.