Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[Sando]

And as stated, I think Lacey is being quite hypocritical to accuse KMD of trying to end the day, when that’s exactly what she tried to agree to.

Well I disagree here. If he had taken me up on my offer, as I demanded he did, and I flipped scum, what would that have gained the mafia? Nothing.

But having someone demand to end the day and flipping town has a better than average chance (in my opinion) of catching us a mafia member. I'm still suspicious that kmd was hoping to exploit the unique double mafia situation to secure a town read for himself.

See, this is what I mean about moving around the issue. What you say is true regarding KMD, but it doesn't address my quoted problem with you accusing KMD of trying to end the day early. You also tried to end the day early, to turn around and accuse KMD of doing it is hypocritical.

@DTM - What I think is scummy from KMD is that he has previously stated that he was totally sure of someones guilt and was prepared to back it to the hilt, but when he made the case on you, a case that he described as mostly gut, he seemingly wasn't prepared to put himself quite so much on the line. This isn't a problem with normal cases, but a gut case where we're meant to take him on his word that you are acting like his unique view of you as scum, requires us to put some level of faith in that read.

I would expect that someone going on a strong gut read would put themselves on the line more. Basically, I want to know how confident he is of it, because if you flip town, he was either lying or wrong, and the only way I can tell whether I'm going to go off his perception is how strongly he believes it and how it will effect play tomorrow. Considering he is seemingly reasonably happy to make a strong judgement call, his lack in this case worries me.

[farside22]

DTM: 1st question: nope, where did he say it/post it?

2nd Question: I only caught up some, I'll finish around tomorrow for sure, but from what I read, I have a gut feeling both farside and Lacey could be town.

I started flashing back to my argument with Gayle which is why I thought it best to take a step back.

@DTM I don't like your new approach. Also I would like to know who you think is scum and why.

Spring is lurking and non-responsive as far as post goes. This needs to be closely monitored.

[The Quintastic One]

@TQO
Just wondering, did you take into account that Goro is from a diffrent site where the play style is diffrent?

Of course. Still doesn’t make it any less baffling to think that other “Mafia” websites have entire games where the players just post lists of their tells and sarcastic questions regarding grammar and expect to ever get anything done in the Day Phase. So although I find it weird play, I haven’t voted for him yet, as I would like to see actual content to study instead of fluff.


As for the whole continued speculation between the Lacey/KMD incident, I considered this fight more of Farside Vs. Gayle from the last game. Which ended up being Town Vs. Town and very disastrous as a result. I’m not inclined to suspect one over the other at this point, because like Farside, I would like to try and avoid a repeat of the last Fire & Ice game.


As far as who I believe to be scummy so far, Thelonging voting for GoroHonda isn’t super scummy, but it’s awkward because he’s essentially voting on 2 posts that mean nothing until Goro elaborates as to why he’s being so useless. Lol.

Otherwise I don’t have many questions to follow up on my wall of text analysis of the game thus far. DTMaster has a few people questioning his motives, and although I can’t paraphrase those questions off hand, I would like to see DTM address these issues.

I could easily swing either way to a Lacey or a KMD vote due to their prior actions, but until I see something a little more than the previous argument, I can’t in good faith believe that one is scummier than the other.

[TheLonging]

In your words TQO, if Goro is being useless and not contributing to the game, then why should we keep him around?

[farside22]

TQO post comes off scummy. No real scum suspect. Doesn't like TL's vote.
Question to TQO what do you think of DTM's vote on Jacob?

[Kmd4390]

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

[Gheb]

I think Scumlullaby and GoroScum are both better lynches. Both have been dodging questions, avoiding discussion, not been hunting scum and have been rather disctracting overall (Jacob also deserves a mention in that regard). I know that lurking isn't a scumtell but I still think that as town you have no reasons to play like that and that lurking like that is detrimental to town - regardless of whether the lurker is scum or town. Xofelf literally won the first incarnation of this game with ~10 posts which should never ever happen.

Lacey I think isn't scum mainly because she has made actual efforts to find scum herself. Personally, I find a lot of these efforts to be weak and many of her posts show poor judgment to me but I think she's gotten way too much attention so far especially since almost everybody has openly called her suspicious and based on the set-up I'd call a bus rather unlikely.

Major town vibes from farside, less so from TQO's wishy-wash and leightweight defending Goro.

Spring
Goro / Jacob

^ At least one scumbag in that bunch.

[JacobSavage]

@Farside.
I was referring to Lacey's Meta.
@DTM
1. One no, I was mealy making an observation that scum, would not try and make enemies amongst the town at this early stage, and especially over such a trivial matter.

2a. I have a relatively weak scum list, as by examining what little meta I have seen of hers, she does seem to like arguments, and their is nothing wrong with that.

b. And yes I do think that Gorro is town (see post 1), and was merely using his post as my reasoning, rather than directly replying to it.

c.I am inclined to believe that Lacey is town and KMD is scum, given the completely different reactions he placed compared to last time

[Lacey]

Guys, DT is obviously the only correct lynch today.

I don't understand the case on DT at all. So far he has seemed pretty town to me. He has dropped some helpful hints to newer players, and I haven't seen any clearly scummy behavior. Can someone help me understand the case on him?

If anything Kmd's strange plays coupled with his assertion here with no useful analysis to back it up seems far scummier, but for the fact that many others seem convinced of a DT lynch.

[Lacey]

See, this is what I mean about moving around the issue. What you say is true regarding KMD, but it doesn't address my quoted problem with you accusing KMD of trying to end the day early. You also tried to end the day early, to turn around and accuse KMD of doing it is hypocritical.

KMD tried to end the day early, I just offered that we make him put his money where his mouth is and take the bet he proposed. I don't see at all how you think this is hypocritical.

Would you have suggested the best response to someone trying to do this would have been appeasement? What would you have done? Let Kmd slink off into the shadows and not bring his activity to the fullest light?

[The Quintastic One]

TQO post comes off scummy. No real scum suspect. Doesn't like TL's vote.
Question to TQO what do you think of DTM's vote on Jacob?

My posts always come off as scummy. Whether I'm town or scum. That's apparently my Meta.


And on that note, I don't have any particular opinion on DTM. Because as far as I can see his suspicions are also based on Meta from the last game, which I replaced out of too soon to even pay attention to what made him scummy in the first place.

And to TL: He's useless now, but I'm giving him a chance to post more than 3 times before I declare him scum and decide it's time to lynch.


Call me wishy-washy all you want. That's apparently my playstyle. Because I truthfully don't have any REAL suspects right now. If that makes me scummy, so be it. I can't defend against my own Meta.

[Lacey]

c.I am inclined to believe that Lacey is town and KMD is scum, given the completely different reactions he placed compared to last time

What last time are you referring to here?

[JacobSavage]

@ Lacey
During the original Open 201,

[TheLonging]

kmd last game had play I really didn't like (never explaining his vote on me, bandwagoning relentlessly), and this game I think his play is better but not much, which still makes me think he's a bit scummy, though it's not a strong feeling.

[Sando]

As far as who I believe to be scummy so far, Thelonging voting for GoroHonda isn’t super scummy, but it’s awkward because he’s essentially voting on 2 posts that mean nothing until Goro elaborates as to why he’s being so useless. Lol.

This is pretty scummy, in answer to your own question of who you think is scummy, you say that 1 particular person 'isn't super scummy'. No commitment to scumhunting at all.

There's a difference between scumhunting and looking scummy while doing it, and looking scummy because you're not scumhunting.

[Lacey]

@ Lacey
During the original Open 201,

I couldn't find a comparable situation. Could you cite a PS?

[Sando]

See, this is what I mean about moving around the issue. What you say is true regarding KMD, but it doesn't address my quoted problem with you accusing KMD of trying to end the day early. You also tried to end the day early, to turn around and accuse KMD of doing it is hypocritical.

KMD tried to end the day early, I just offered that we make him put his money where his mouth is and take the bet he proposed. I don't see at all how you think this is hypocritical.

Would you have suggested the best response to someone trying to do this would have been appeasement? What would you have done? Let Kmd slink off into the shadows and not bring his activity to the fullest light?

Again!! Why do you keep doing this?! KMD offered to end the day early, you agreed, you BOTH tried to end the day early, hence it is hypocritical to accuse him of it. You're avoiding the accusation, again, I don't find the fact that you agreed to the exchange scummy, it's the fact that you're hypocritically accusing KMD.

[Lacey]

Again!! Why do you keep doing this?! KMD offered to end the day early, you agreed, you BOTH tried to end the day early, hence it is hypocritical to accuse him of it. You're avoiding the accusation, again, I don't find the fact that you agreed to the exchange scummy, it's the fact that you're hypocritically accusing KMD.

I'm not avoiding the accusation. I engaged it, now you're avoiding my question when I responded.

Answer my question

. How would you have had me respond? I am going to assert, my response was reasonable. You're setting up a false choice with a bogus charge of hypocrisy.

[CSL]

This is your friendly mod speaking. I will not be here for the majority of the day on Saturday. I actually have shit to do. So, I've asked Haylen to back me up that day. I want her to say she has them all before I return. I like Hayl's modscenes, and I want to see them. So

FAILURE TO SEND HAYLEN YOUR ROLE INFO CAN AND WILL RESULT IN A FORCE-REPLACEMENT, AND POSSIBLE BLACKLIST, AS THAT IS A BLATANT DISRESPECT TO THE ACTING MOD; A VIOLATION OF RULE 1! I WILL go to the listmods to determine if a player force-replaced by this rule should be blacklisted, so follow my rules, respect her rulings, etc. Deadline for this is 5pm EST, which is 47 hours and 30 minutes from now.

I expect to see a positive note of your behavior. Just letting you all know ahead of time to send her the info.

~CSL

[Haylen]

*waves* ^.^

<--- Acting mod

[TheLonging]

so we send them to Haylen now?

[CSL]

Yes.

[farside22]

This is your friendly mod speaking. I will not be here for the majority of the day on Saturday. I actually have shit to do. So, I've asked Haylen to back me up that day. I want her to say she has them all before I return. I like Hayl's modscenes, and I want to see them. So

FAILURE TO SEND HAYLEN YOUR ROLE INFO CAN AND WILL RESULT IN A MODKILL, AS THAT IS A BLATANT DISRESPECT TO THE ACTING MOD; A VIOLATION OF RULE 1! I WILL go to the listmods to determine if a player modkilled by this rule should be blacklisted, so follow my rules, respect her rulings, etc. Deadline for this is 5pm EST, which is 47 hours and 30 minutes from now.

I expect to see a positive note of your behavior. Just letting you all know ahead of time to send her the info.

~CSL

Why can't you just send haylen the info on who has what role?

[CSL]

@ farside: Players should be responsible enough to do that.

[Sando]

Again!! Why do you keep doing this?! KMD offered to end the day early, you agreed, you BOTH tried to end the day early, hence it is hypocritical to accuse him of it. You're avoiding the accusation, again, I don't find the fact that you agreed to the exchange scummy, it's the fact that you're hypocritically accusing KMD.

I'm not avoiding the accusation. I engaged it, now you're avoiding my question when I responded.

Answer my question

. How would you have had me respond? I am going to assert, my response was reasonable. You're setting up a false choice with a bogus charge of hypocrisy.

I did answer your question, I would have had you respond no differently, I specifically said that I didn't find it scummy:

I don't find the fact that you agreed to the exchange scummy

What about that doesn't make sense to you? How can I make this any more clear? It is not your response to his lynching proposal that I find scummy, it is your accusation against him that he was trying to end the day early that I find scummy.

Here is my logic, broken down into little bite size chunks for you:

• 1: KMD and Lacey both tried to end the day early
  2: Lacey accused KMD of being scummy for trying to end the day early
  3:The hypocritical accusation from Lacey is what I find scummy

I found your actions in #2 scummy, your actions in #1 were not. You are acting like I'm accusing you of being scummy for agreeing to the exchange, when I am not doing that.