Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[zoraster]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 3 ) Ellibereth CSL ojanen
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 1 ) spyrex
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 2 ) mykonian fishythefish
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) gayle starbuck evilsnail Haylen
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

[SpyreX]

Nah not necessary at all.

Let me go ahead and be a prophet:

If today is a mislynch that happens because everyone is being apathetic, town loses this game.

I don't even care if you lynch ME at this point as long as its a for reals manned up opinions drawn case versus this tip toeing.

I mean, snail is town because he admits being wrong and I'm scum because you disagree with me about mykonian? And that is, sadly, a better case than we've seen from most about anyone today.

[mykonian]

I think that scum tend to worry more about them and their arguments looking good, and so are more prone to trying to prove themselves right to justify previous arguments. I think that being able to admit your arguments were wrong is something townies are better at - particularly when your arguments were not obviously wrong.

yeah, you know this is WIFOM. So a scum who is "very good at admitting he is wrong, and doing so in a towny way" gets away with things that were scummy from the start? Without real defense?

[Fishythefish]

Of course that is WIFOM. Everything that makes anyone think anyone else more likely town is WIFOM - doesn't make it wrong or useless. I think snail is displaying a trait townies display more than scum - and that makes him more likely town. The things he did that were scummy still make him scummy.

@Spy: saying I think you're scum for your case on myk is a misrep. I think you scum (though not that strongly, really) for Raskol's play.

[mykonian]

Of course that is WIFOM. Everything that makes anyone think anyone else more likely town is WIFOM - doesn't make it wrong or useless. I think snail is displaying a trait townies display more than scum - and that makes him more likely town. The things he did that were scummy still make him scummy.

you are slightly missing the point (knowing that I am seriously against using WIFOM as the only reason against an argument). WIFOM is a game of possibilities.

You say Evil is good at it. Doesn't that make it more likely he is scum playing it? As in, the odds are drawn more closely to 50/50

And, knowing that, should this be an argument that "defends" his scumpoints a bit?

[SpyreX]

- There are some reasons to think Raskol was scum (see my last post on the matter). I don't think Spy's play has been terribly impressive -

I very much disagree with him over myko

- but I haven't really seen enough to read him for his own play yet.

Yep thats me SpyreX captain of the USS Misrep.

The one concrete piece of evidence you brought

about me

is disagreement with me over mykonian.

[Ojanen]

I actually have lots of thoughts; the problem was they didn't seem to lead to clearcut conclusions. But there's not exactly too much noise in the thread.

I am uncomfortable with the puff of wifom from evilsnail on my blatant wishy washiness today voting him being townish if anything. Because it's another anti-opportunistic puff, townish bit from him, dammit.

So I'm writing out stuff tonight on myko, snail, Spyrex and taking it from there again if mulling it aloud helps me or someone else.

Stuff of interest on

mykonian

first

-No teleportation strategy proponent (there is a scum motivation for this, but minor tell at best. Driving a strategy from the get-go scum think would in some obvious way benefit them is not scum's nature on average.)
-"what are your scumtells when you are scum" question hulabaloo.
I don't find the "I want to make scum uncomfortable" thought process implausible nor especially naive as others did.
The only thing to see here is that his own answer seems stuff he could easily change up in format (PBPAs, fakeclaim crumbs). Manipulating stances gradually is the only more non-specific part and harder to change up in is answer.

wait, we are at the start of the game, I have asked a question, you are saying you caught scum by it, but it is useless?
unvote vote DGB If you have a mindset where catching scum is pointless, you are scum. I am certain this was a major scumslip.

Early DGB vote; reasoning is totally fine, gut slightly growls at the last sentence though
-Is sensitive/borderline hurt to language calling his argument stupid. (Raskol interaction)

Raskol seems genuinely cranky in a townie way.

If you let away every scum that insults the players attacking him, but doesn't actually defend, you are making this game way too easy. It is site-meta that people showing emotion (be this aggression or anger) are towny. This is known, but easily abused.

This is interesting, I think he believes this, which leads to the fact that he would abuse it as scum (look at previous Raskol interaction).
I should check out if he's generally sensitive.

For me, it is and will remain a significant point against you,

I know it will be. Esspecially since slips are very strong evidence, it will be remembered. So every next argument against me will end with: and he had the slip.
Unfortunate is an understatement. People will now read every point as if I'm trying to manipulate them.

I would expect an average non-guilty person to demean the point much more rather than say "I know this is awful". Slips/typos are really really random as scumtells.
What makes this a weaker gut argument is that it's consistent with myko using extremely strong language that DGB had made a scumlip earlier in the game.
Iso 50 and 52 are townish. ABR/DGB fight is apparently starting up at that time. He wants to resolve it by teleporting due to the apparently personal nature of the conflict. Of course, this would keep scumteam intact, too. But town/town fight discouraging is still pluspoints.

..ugh but then right away 54 he votes DGB. A DGB wagon wasn't up though.

PS: Hoopla, you have seen one of my recent games. The game where I tried to look very protown (in stead of trying to find scum). Here is how I play when I have to find scum.

Spyrex will facepalm at me epically but there's something gut-townish about saying this line.

uhm, no. I never get myself lynched as town. That scum will attack me is great. Let them. We all know what that mistake means, and people react to it. People will react to it day 2, day 3. etc.

Contrary to the amount of posting and scumhunting I try to do in those games, I am often the first or second lynch.
Now, this is such a sad story, but that part is my problem, and I'm working on that. But if your problem with me is essentially that your gut says I'm manipulating, then I'm afraid you have found my normal playstyle

I don't see the scum motivation for this complete contrast but weird stuff on self statements whether he gets lynched.

Pops I have no meta on. He seems to be a player here for the fun, not the actual winning of the game (sig + his totally useless posts). If this is not true, and someone knows him well enough that he really cares about this game, then something weird is going on here. Esspecially since he started the game as towny in my eyes, I can't understand his latest play.

He does express this on late D1 about pops' play.

You don't listen about CSL's meta, do you. You just hammer on about what you said already, without listening to anything.
and now we have this. Seriously. Is this your attempt to look town by switching your vote now and then by "scumhunting"?

Well that makes me like my vote less...

unvote csl; vote popsofctown

Pops is not scum hunting this game. He's making a lot of jokes, off-topic comments about avatars or whatever. I am fine with jokes and banter, but not if you don't also scum hunt. He's not asking many questions, and if he does ask questions they don't seem very probing. Like he's not trying. He's not engaging people in discussion to try to find out their allignment. He's sitting there, making a few half-hearted attempts, and making sure people like him because he's saying funny stuff.
And now he's like "I don't see and obvscum, so vote CSL. BTW CSL has been ridiculously scummy this game." If he's been ridiculously scummy, why isn't he obvscum? I don't get it. I don't think pops is helping.

...which has some contrast to his reaction to elvis' reasoning on D2, which is identical in nature until the point about CSL.

Elvis, I have been very clear I feel there are better lynches then Pops. I disagree with the lynch. Take a look at the votecount, you would say I was vote-parking anyway.

am I scummy for not wanting this lynch? [snip]

This at pops end of long first wagon, L-2 or something. Very tricksy posting if he's scum, feels townish.

mykonian is much more anti-Raskol throughout the game I had really remembered, which I note with interest. Additional motivation for being hypo-SpyreX-scum's target; makes me speculate less about the significance of myko going after SpyreX today instead of continuing 'snailhate

[SpyreX]

Except he was anti-Raskol until I replaced in and then it was....??? until I posted versus applying pressure.

In fact both of the "sins of the father" business bothers me because it wasn't TRULY sins of the father - or else I'd have came in with a hotplate already under me.

And, while not a facepalm I look at most of that and go "why does she think that makes town???"

[Ojanen]

Except he was anti-Raskol until I replaced in and then it was....??? until I posted versus applying pressure.

Ok, I'll look at that again. Just glanced and you may have a point. I only really looked D1-3, myko is hard to read for me in big quantities.

And, while not a facepalm I look at most of that and go "why does she think that makes town???"

What do you mean?
I think I got a very mixed observation crop; I don't have an overall townread on him. I can see 2 obscure points that are about tone that would make you ask that in there (self-meta, calling inevitable pops wagon bad and asking question from one of the originators of the wagon whether not agreeing with the wagon makes him look bad), but I don't think explaining them would help, unless you want more transparency on your read on me specifically.

[SpyreX]

I have had one of those days where I'm prone to assume people are going to argue so maybe i read more than I should.

The facepalm line about "see THIS is how I play as scum" bothers me. The proposing a strategy that on average will be more helpful to scum BUT can sound solid seems like a scum manuever.

[Ellibereth]

Spyrex, assume Myko's town, who's scum? (If you said it and I missed it, sorry )

[SpyreX]

That really at this point is "assume the world is backwards" BUT I'll give it a shot.

Gayle has read clean but is absolutely absent. That's not good.

Fishy, again, read clean but is starting to bother me.

Evilsnail is up in the air.

Ultimately? If Myko was town I'd say one of, if not both, Plum and Rhinox were scum and the other split lies in the above.

[mykonian]

uhm, no. I never get myself lynched as town. That scum will attack me is great. Let them. We all know what that mistake means, and people react to it. People will react to it day 2, day 3. etc.

Contrary to the amount of posting and scumhunting I try to do in those games, I am often the first or second lynch.
Now, this is such a sad story, but that part is my problem, and I'm working on that. But if your problem with me is essentially that your gut says I'm manipulating, then I'm afraid you have found my normal playstyle

I don't see the scum motivation for this complete contrast but weird stuff on self statements whether he gets lynched.

it's quite simple, actually. Someone from the other universe said I had to get myself lynched because I looked bad, and that is something I never do. I don't selfvote, or give up. This has given at least 2 games (where it was very clear) where I was lynched day 1, but scum was lynched day 2 because of it. However, I would rather have that I would catch scum before I get lynched, then making them obvious in twilight, or letting people analyze my wagon for the scummos later.[/quote]

[mykonian]

and the point where Elvis accuses me of voteparking: I didn't want a CSL lynch, which was on that moment barely a counterwagon (only 2 votes, I thought), while the Pops lynch was wrong in my eyes too. So I stayed with my biggest suspect and asked Elvis how she could make that as scummy (which she did - "voteparking" isn't town.)

[Fishythefish]

@Spy: fair enough, no misrep there. Actually, I don't think your case on myko is scummy, just wrong. I phrased that post rather badly.

V/LA starting a little early - I probably won't post here again before Monday.

[Ojanen]

Fell asleep before finishing last night, will do that today.

Ultimately? If Myko was town I'd say one of,

if not both

, Plum and Rhinox were scum and the other split lies in the above.

I think Plum AND Rhinox scum is something we can almost 100% rule out btw.

At night, your team may choose to shoot one person. You may shoot someone in any universe that your team has a player alive in.

On N3, scum killed farside here. Pops was dead, Plum and Rhinox were teleported away. Only people who could have done the kill if the teleported players would have been scum from OU, at that time only Elli/Haylen. Unless they would have known U1 scum wouldn't make a kill in U1 (very implausible), it would have been an extremely stupid move from them to signal that HEY there's scum in the 2 of us.

Plum and Rhinox are not scum together.

[evilsnail]

On N3, scum killed farside here. Pops was dead, Plum and Rhinox were teleported away. Only people who could have done the kill if the teleported players would have been scum from OU, at that time only Elli/Haylen. Unless they would have known U1 scum wouldn't make a kill in U1 (very implausible), it would have been an extremely stupid move from them to signal that HEY there's scum in the 2 of us.

Plum and Rhinox are not scum together.

This is a good point, which I hadn't considered. We can be relatively sure that we still have 1 U1 scum left.

Atm, I think it's either CSL or SpyreX. I'm starting to reconsider my conclusion that pops's behaviour made CSL likely town, because I don't see very convincing scum elsewhere. CSL's behaviour at least fits scum and I can see a clever pops-scum pushing a policy lynch on their scumbuddy.

CSL needs to answer this:

I'm a bit surprised by CSL's vote. CSL, you said I was a null-read earlier today. What's changed?

[mykonian]

Popsscum wouldn't have looked townier when CSL flipped scum, policy lynches don't look that great, so there seems to be little advantage. If the policylynch of CSL would have succeeded, scum wouldn't benefit that much.

It is surprising how you both (spyrex-evilsnail) seem to poke if there is any interest for a CSL lynch.

[zorastermod]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 3 ) Ellibereth CSL ojanen
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 1 ) spyrex
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 2 ) mykonian fishythefish
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) gayle starbuck evilsnail Haylen
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

[SpyreX]

Holy hell I forgot all about that tidbit. Good catch Oj.

And hell yea I'm "poking" all over CSL right now still too? Not like that wasn't discussed and dealt with earlier, right?

Good gravy

[Haylen]

Can somebody ask me a load of questions to help me get into the game?

[SpyreX]

What are the chances of Plum / Rhinox being one of the scum?
Of the three viable lynches today as it sits: Myko, Snail, Me how would you rank those on the chance of it being a scum hit?
Is there anyone you see behaviorial differences from as the days shift?
If you look at the days self-contained, pick the scummiest person per day and why.

THERE YA GO

[mykonian]

Holy hell I forgot all about that tidbit. Good catch Oj.

And hell yea I'm "poking"

all over

CSL right

now

still too? Not like that wasn't discussed and dealt with earlier, right?

Good gravy

I think I didn't say the bolded. Because it is quite obvious you did. However, as Ojanen points out it is quite unlikely that you both are scum, I believe one of you was doing that to create distrust/seek another mislynch-target. Because CSL's play is horrible, but I don't think scum would ever try to policy lynch someone, because if it works, they don't benefit that much.

[SpyreX]

Good lord it wasn't a policy lynch my god.

I never said the words policy lynch.

Nor would I.

I said that eliminating him from the pool as a function of pops explosion didn't make sense because the only scenario where that didn't make sense (CSL getting lynched first) was the least likely to happen.

Once Ojanen showed the timeframe that became more obviously the goal - thusly, under the assumation that the scum aren't insane CSL can't be scum.

He's not playing great and believe me I'd LOVE to lynch him but of everyone currently alive he makes the least possible sense to be scum.

FFFFF

[SpyreX]

AND AND AND considering that was in response to snails POST ABOVE YOURS trying to push a CSL lynch (which is bad) yea one would make the assumption that you were saying I was doing this NOW.

Please lord I'm not crazy lets lynch Myko TIA.

Snail pushing on CSL concerns me but my lord.