Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[Budja]

I'll be able to post properly later but for now I doubly endorse a horror/death lynch.

[DeathSauce]

I vote against a DeathSauce lynch, and that is the only name attached to this slot. Calling it a horror/death lynch is an attempt at guilt by association, which is somewhat unfair.

I have posted extensively in this thread today, some acknowledgement of that and, at the very minimum, an attempt at analysis would be appreciated before you continue to advocate my death.

[Fate]

And RedCoyote is the alternative to your lynch, DeathSauce? Surely you can admit the case on you is stronger than the one post case on RC or DDD.

[cruelty]

Incidentally the grand conclusion about my zang musing is that I don't think he's ever a really acceptable lynch given he's such a wildcard (both town and scum benefit from lynching him regardless of his alignment).

[Fate]

If both town and scum benefit from lynching him, why do you say:

I don't think he's ever a really acceptable lynch

which seems like a direct contradiction?

[AlmasterGM]

Scum.

If you wanted to hammer quick, you would have done in that post. But you don't have the nuts to throw down hard, because your afraid of the suspicion. Your asking permission to quickhammer. I litterally can't think of something scummier at the moment.

God, but that means your not scum WITH him, or you'd bus the hell out of him with a hammer.

So... I'm completely expecting a 3rd party flip from Miller, and a /pre-in to vote for AMG tomorrow.

You make no sense. Your logic is, "You didn't quickhammer because it would be scummy. thus, you are scum." Not everyone wants to have a super short D1 like you do. Some people want to talk. Just going around and being all trigger-happy like this:

Just to be clear, I'd probably be "fine" with lynching almost anyone today.

is unproductive. Like, seriously wtf is this garbage. You aren't even consistent about it either, becuase you're like "short D1's are productive lets lynch fate now" and the you go and change your vote to DeathSauce. Stuff like DEATHSAUCE is why we don't just lynch naogogogogo.

That said I give you permission to quick-hammer.

Cool, I give you permission to use this as ammo against me tomorrow by saying I'm following directions or something.

If you'd read the thread and didn't have time to post why did you post saying you were going to... read the thread versus saying you didn't have time to post?

I didn't say I was going to read the thread. I said I already had done a (quick) read and what my initial thoughts were in a short post. I don't see what is so confusing about this, nor do I see why it matters at all.

ANYWAY.

I think that DeathSauce / horrordude is scum because 1) he replaced out while still posting in other games (including one that I'm in), 2) he was extra cautious about us not blaming his replacement, which is an odd thing to say, and 3) the miller claim is obvfake. Not to mention his behavior prior to all three of those occurances.

I don't see WHERE this Zang town read is coming from. He is still all over the place and I have no clue what he is talking about half the time. Despite the fact that I am 99% sure DeathSauce is scum, I agree with him when he says things like, "All Zang is doing is giving us the definition of a miller." I don't see how this makes him town at all.

Porkens is annoying me but I'm getting the impression he always plays this way.

eah, I thought your vote seemed contrived, less about suspicion and more about appeasement.

Ok, fine, but how does this relate to our previous game?

Incidentally the grand conclusion about my zang musing is that I don't think he's ever a really acceptable lynch given he's such a wildcard (both town and scum benefit from lynching him regardless of his alignment).

How do the scum benefit from lynching Zang regardless of alignment, wouldn't they rather him live if he's on their team? Or, if he's town, wouldn't they rather lynch someone who doesn't just cause confusion?

When you're back from your V/LA, I'd like to hear more about this. I was rereading it and it stuck me a bit odd that you'd want this particular fight and I'm curious as to what you'd hope to glean. Are you suspicious of either?

I like fights, and most of Budja and SpyreX's posts have been really short. A fight would mean longer posts from both.

While I agree with Kthx on the issue of cutting the Day short, I don't think horror would be a bad lynch. There's also a mechanic built into this game that if we end the Day early, time gets added onto subsequent Days. I think the worth of the next few Days {with flips and concrete information} outweighs D1 by a longshot.

If you think this, why aren't you hammering DeathSauce?

[SpyreX]

Going off a quick read != going FOR a quick read.

I'm retarded. Carry on.

[SpyreX]

@spyrex: why not investigate zang?

Because, POPULAR OPINION is he's going to be a lynch. Watching someone, theoretically, swap their read and try to defend him would be a huggeee target.

Additionally, IFF this is some amazing gambit the role that makes the most sense is GF. Sooo.

(and if there's a vig that'd be my money for the shot)

Thats the short and sweet.

[Budja]

A fight would mean longer posts from both.

FYI, I am

always

fairly brief.

Calling it a horror/death lynch is an attempt at guilt by association, which is somewhat unfair.

It was to reduce confusion after the replacement

but

you are guilty by association. You replaced into a scummy slot and gave a scummy claim.

I can't get on board with the idea that Zang is Lawful Good.

More like Chaotic good. His play isn't impressing but I see can't see scum motivated.

@Kthx, any questions then?

[RedCoyote]

I'm DeathSauce and I am a Miller.

Good, then it's no real loss role-wise.

1) RedCoyote. Especially this

Well we have a month before the deadline, but wagoning an absentee just isn't productive.

Are you always so townie sounding? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I feel like you always sound town to me...

^^^ makes me want to puke.

And? You point this out, yet you fail to explain why it causes you or should cause anyone else discomfort.

I'm of the opinion that a town-sided player should be as open as possible in the game. He should never hesistate to point out when something sounds town or scum, never try to hide his feelings, etc.

So if that made you sick, then I suggest you run to the toilet for this one.

I think Spyrex sounds townie.

Nausea come back yet?

I think Porkens is very townie sounding.

Can you handle anymore?

I love me some Budja this game.

One last one...

I still think you're a good lynch today.

Also, his statement that he won't vote for cruelty because he tunneled him in another game.

Obviously taken out of context. I would not participate in the wagon that was created for cruelty earlier in the game, mostly because cruelty's town play was unorthodox to me in a previous game, so I suspect it would be unorthodox to me now.

---

For the record, posts like this one are why I think Zang is town on fire versus scum pretending to be on fire.

Maybe. Like I said, I'm very open to the idea that he struggles to communicate as effectively because of a language barrier, but, you know, we'll see what happens.

---

I feel like there's some sort of conclusion being reached that's flying way over my head, can someone explain?

Join the club, my friend.

---

The only reason I'm not voting DS right now is because I think DDD has the right, given that his vote is on this wagon, to make a post here.

[Kthxbye]

Don't care to hear from d3x before the hammer RC? I'd also like to point out there are like 3 people who have stated they want to hammer. I think one of them is scum. After my unvote, I thought it was fairly clear that I would be voting him again once everyone in this game had a chance to post something. That leaves me with a question for the more experienced players.

Is it common for people to try and jump all over the hammer spot when the lynch is this obvious? I don't really care who hammers, it just struck me as odd that after I unvote to allow those who haven't posted in awhile to post, Zang jumps immediately on the wagon putting it back at L-1 and then we have 2 or 3 more people state something like 'I would hammer but' or 'I will hammer in 6 hours if' and so on. Is this normal behavior?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The only reason I'm not voting DS right now is because I think DDD has the right, given that his vote is on this wagon, to make a post here.

Post.

...

Seriously, we've got an extremely scummy player, who replaces out of just this one game, his replacement claims miller, and almost seems amused (to my reading) at the WIFOM he put in front of the town. He probably should've been lynched about two pages ago as I see nothing useful since then. I mean we get Zang proving that he is in fact a VI, SpyreX still braying for blood, kthx and Fate wanting to prolong this day for who knows what reason and plenty of waffling from AGM, cruelty and you about whether they want to be the hammer or not. I'm with SpyreX and Porkens in regards to the length of days and this one is already over its expiration date.

[Kthxbye]

DDD: Once d3x posts, I will return my vote to hammer DS (unless someone beats me to it which is fine).

Look, the reason I wanted everyone to post something before the hammer falls is freaking simple (surprised you don't get it). This is a TEXT based game. The more people post, the better the odds are that scum will slip something. Even if there are no slips in the past 2 pages, it's a recorded history of what people have posted. The more scum are forced to post, the better the chance they contradict themselves later. Elementary dear Danny.

I especially want d3x to post some thoughts since his posts are a little lacking imo. Much akin to cruelty. If you ISO, you won't find too many of his actual opinions on anyone besides the 2 major wagons of the day. Not a tell really, just limited opinions. Questions are great, but posting thoughts without having to be asked is better IMO.

d3x: You mentioned you didn't like Horror too much in one of your posts. How are you feeling now? Still think Zang is the better lynch and why or why not? Are Zang and Horror your only 2 suspects at this time? What are your thoughts surrounding others suspicions of AMG?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: Once d3x posts, I will return my vote to hammer DS (unless someone beats me to it which is fine).

Look, the reason I wanted everyone to post something before the hammer falls is freaking simple (surprised you don't get it). This is a TEXT based game. The more people post, the better the odds are that scum will slip something. Even if there are no slips in the past 2 pages, it's a recorded history of what people have posted. The more scum are forced to post, the better the chance they contradict themselves later. Elementary dear Danny.

When there are too many posts it becomes much harder to pull the signal from the noise, the wheat from the chaff and it becomes that much harder to put together a compelling narrative because over a longer timeline everyone will do things that look scummy and things that look town. Elementary old bean.

Content for contents sake is meaningless.

[Kthxbye]

We'll just agree to disagree I suppose. Once d3x posts it's hammer-time....with parachute pants and all.

[cruelty]

Sorry, forgot to hammer last night. Got caught up in MW2.


The reason I don't think that Zang is a good lynch is because I don't think scum would hesitate to bus him, and I also don't think town would hesitate to vote him. Thus, little to be learned from his lynch regardless of the flip.

I see there are calls for d3x to post, I'll let this go for now.

[d3x]

Posting to say that I'm going to read over the last few pages with a little more detail and see what's what this afternoon.

In the meantime, I'll say this: I've yet to play in a game with a 'Miller' and I'm not sure entirely how one is supposed to deal with them. I'm assuming it's to Lynch them sooner rather than later {as that seems to be the feeling around the last few pages}, especially if the slot s/he holds is a scummy as DS's inherited slot.

[SpyreX]

d3x:

Ultimately, if a Miller claims early then you can weigh it.

A Miller claiming miller as the wagon looms. No. That is for lynching.

[Fate]

d3x:

This is what can happen if you let a Miller slide: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30&start=0

^Hoopla claimed D1 and coasted to endgame. I'm a fan of first-post miller claims, as that is when it would be riskiest as scum to do it (draw a counter-claim), and best as town to do it (don't waste an investigation on me, and I'm saying this before any suspicion is on anyone).

[Zang]

I will be V/LA from Friday (tomorow) to mid Sunday

I'm here for today though so I will probably post something later

[SpyreX]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&start=0

While I approve of your example KK's frakking prescient claim and subsequent mauling also needs to be an example of millers must die.

[DeathSauce]

I am also a fan of first post Miller claims, unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity here.

Hey Zang, unvote me before you go V/LA

Things to note before I (possibly) die, who is advocating my lynch without dropping the hammer? Why would a pro-town player do that?

"Millers must die" is the equivalent of "Townies must die". I disagree with that statement.

RC, there is a big difference between saying you *think* someone is town and your statement about the glorious townie beacon of townieness that is Fate.

[DeathSauce]

Also, Zang, answer my frackin' question about why you think I am scum, in your own words, and don't say its because I'm a Miller.

[d3x]

Ok. My thoughts are as follows...

@Kthx-

since I can't see how scum knew he was a miller, scum were pushing for his lynch long before DS replaced in.

I'd really like to know how you

know

Scum are pushing his wagon. I'd also really like to know how you

know

they were on there before the Miller claim.

FoS:Kthx

@DS-

I have posted extensively in this thread today, some acknowledgement of that and, at the very minimum, an attempt at analysis would be appreciated

So acknowledged.

Seriously though, due to your replacement's scummy posts and positioning coupled with your Miller claim, I don't see you as anything short of a liability. At the absolute best, you are a rat's nest of WIFOM, while at worst you're Scum.

@Alm-

I like fights, and most of Budja and SpyreX's posts have been really short. A fight would mean longer posts from both.

Do you not have reads on either? Do you feel that Scum are more apt to slip by making larger posts?

If you think this, why aren't you hammering DeathSauce?

Umm... because I wasn't here? Not only was he not at L-1 at the time of my posting, but I felt/feel that Zang is a better Lynch. I'd also like to look at what you quoted for a tic. I said "I don't think horror would be a bad lynch," not 'I think horror's Scum and should be our Lynch today.' Why are you trying to get me to Hammer DS?

@Kthx-

I especially want d3x to post some thoughts since his posts are a little lacking imo.

Ouch. What have I ever done to you? In what way do you think my posts are 'lacking'?

You mentioned you didn't like Horror too much in one of your posts. How are you feeling now? Still think Zang is the better lynch and why or why not? Are Zang and Horror your only 2 suspects at this time? What are your thoughts surrounding others suspicions of AMG?

Still not a fan, read above for details. Yup. He's actively trying

not

to ScumHunt. Nope. I don't think they're

not

warranted, but I'm not putting as much stock in them as those with the suspicions, I guess.

Extra Credit- I'm getting really nervous about DDDP. I think he's mostly sniping and not really adding a whole lot of depth to the conversation. Right now I have bigger fish to fry, but he's definitely on my shortlist.

[SpyreX]

"Millers must die" is the equivalent of "Townies must die". I disagree with that statement.

Toot toot.

Hint: This wagon isn't a function of you being a miller.