Open 210: Carbon 14- Game over!

[semioldguy]

It's a product of people completely ignoring what I write the first time and then posting as if I hadn't typed it at all.

[semioldguy]

Post 43, Post 67, Post 72 would be good posts to look at that outline some key points of my theory on what to look for in catching scum and some ideas of how to begin. There are also many minor points interspersed throughout.

Though a lot of it is just bashing Lacey's style of scum hunting. Due largely in part to the fact that she ignores almost every question I pose to her so I have to think of asking in different ways in the hopes that she'll accidentally address a question or topic that I am actually asking about.

[semioldguy]

@Lacey
I am going to repost this question, because you've already ignored it a couple times and I'm really looking for an answer. I will keep pestering you with this question until you answer it or one of us dies.

*crosses fingers*

(third time's a charm)

When you asked me to post my statistics what would have been a response that would have seemed like a town response to you?

[mavsfan41]

@ Lacey, would you be opposed to a hammer? If so, how long do you want to wait before we shut up this guy for good?

Same question for everyone else? Can we conclude day 1, or is there more people want to get out of it? I highly doubt we will get more out of it since semioldguy will just continue to assert himself into the discussion with "I'm better than everyone. I invented my own religion and I'm God."

What's the rush? It hasn't even been a week since we started the game.

Well, the last game I played, we had the person who was scum to L-1 and then when we prolonged it, more and more townies appeared to be scummier than the scum, which lead us to mis-lynch both the first two days. I want to avoid that. Also, I'm not sure what else may come out of this day. I think the most information will come when either semioldguy or Lacey is lynched. When they reveal, it will become less fuzzy to who may be scum. Also, later in the game I have gone against this saying I do want to hear more to decide who to lynch out of Lacey or semioldguy.

Do you mean earlier?

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

No it isn't.

In other news, I will be using a point system this game. There are six of you and two of you are scum. That gives any of you a 33.3% chance of being scum and as such you all begin with 33 points.

If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more.

This is very clearly what he said.

Technically speaking, yes. That is what he said. But I think it's clear from context that he's saying that he'll give points to scummy-looking people. It's definitely sloppy use of language on his part, but that's all. You not only strip it from context, you also force a different meaning on it.

The second point's first part is pretty clearly false. The third point is also false.

On 2, you don't believe he is attempting to cast himself as town? Care to explain?

He's arguing that's he's a good scumhunter. Being a good scumhunter =/= being town.

As for 3, we didn't buy into his system, so he failed.

What exactly is there to buy into?

However, I believe that if Lacey were scum, she would have wanted a hammer already. The fact that she is strongly against any hammers is pro-town if she isn't 100% sure that semioldguy is scum. She has voted for him putting him at L-1 which could be a crafty way to hammer without directly hammering, but I doubt that.

Assuming Laceyscum and sogtown, who else do you look to if sog is lynched? Especially if she had told you to hammer, the town would hold her responsible for the mislynch. At the same time, we simply haven't had enough input from players besides Lacey and sog to have strong reasons to suspect any of them. Waiting with the lynch is just good play here for scum.

P.S. Using the Oilers in a NHL metaphor is kind of unfair, since the Oilers are only technically a NHL team.

[mavsfan41]

Steam makes a good point in the first quote he has of Lacey. When semioldguy first explained about his dumb point system (which I still think has a lot of flaws and should probably be thrown out), everyone kind of blew it way out of proportion. I do think that semioldguy when he said "If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more," explaining his point system, I don' think he meant it that direct. That does look like a really poor way to lynch someone. I do agree with Steam when he defends semioldguy about the point system. I think that point should probably just be thrown out this far into the game. I don't think it clearly represents something that we can lynch semioldguy off. I don't think that is a scum-tell at all. It's not sufficient enough evidence to lynch someone and thinking they look the most scummy out of everyone just because of that.

However, I believe that once one of them is lynched, we can start looking to the alliances to figure out who may be scum if the fallen is scum. The NK may give us some information to see who the scum has targeted and who they were aligned with, but this may be too much WIFOMing and may not lead us the right way. This would all fall apart if these two are town battling with each other. So I hope one of them is scum.

P.S. The Oilers suck. They don't have anything going for them. They need to dismember their whole team and keep only the young and talented Sam Gagner, their goalie Jeff Deslauriers who would probably be decent on a much better team, their leading point scorer, Dustin Penner, and maybe hang onto Sheldon Souray.

[Lacey]

@Lacey
I am going to repost this question, because you've already ignored it a couple times and I'm really looking for an answer. I will keep pestering you with this question until you answer it or one of us dies.

*crosses fingers*

(third time's a charm)

When you asked me to post my statistics what would have been a response that would have seemed like a town response to you?

Admitting that perhaps your focus on your supposed scum hunting skills was not helping town at all, and moving the discussion away from how supposedly great of a town player you are.

No it isn't.

In other news, I will be using a point system this game. There are six of you and two of you are scum. That gives any of you a 33.3% chance of being scum and as such you all begin with 33 points.

If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more.

This is very clearly what he said.

Technically speaking, yes. That is what he said. But I think it's clear from context that he's saying that he'll give points to scummy-looking people. It's definitely sloppy use of language on his part, but that's all. You not only strip it from context, you also force a different meaning on it.

How it was said is very important in my opinion. People don't like to outright lie in Mafia. They like to tell half truths and hedge their statements. I read the way semioldguy talked about his point system as a potential scum slip/half truth.

You are welcome to interpret it anyway you see fit of course. His original context is present if anyone wants to look at it. As always I encourage others to make their own opinions and assessments.

He's arguing that's he's a good scumhunter. Being a good scumhunter =/= being town.

What purpose does his argument serve other than to make a claim to authority so he can later use appeals to this supposed authority? Why should we care how "good" at scum hunting he supposedly is? Such an argument seems more of a scum tell to me than a town tell, as he could just as easily be scum as town. Arguing for his own supposed scum hunting skills instead of actually scum hunting is distracting at best. It gives town no useful information, and to me seems a ploy from scum to earn trust.

What exactly is there to buy into?

My opinion is that he originally intended to use the point system to try and bully town, and promote himself as the leader or authority of the game. We didn't buy into his point system and his approach failed.

=================================

@mavsfan: You seem to be flip flopping awfully suddenly on semioldguy and me. A flip flop that seems to coincide with me also raising suspicion on you. You were parroting my arguments just a short time ago, and now seem to be flipping to the exact opposite.

Care to explain?

So far from you we have heard nothing new. Just your repetition of my arguments on semioldguy, and steam's arguments on me.

Care to add something new to the discussion instead of just "me too"?


========================================

Quick note, I've tried to address direct queries. I'll try and do a more thorough read tonight, but I'm going to be quickly V/LA till Tuesday due to a family emergency. I'll still be logging in, but expect 1-2 posts max per day.

[semioldguy]

Admitting that perhaps your focus on your supposed scum hunting skills was not helping town at all, and moving the discussion away from how supposedly great of a town player you are.

A couple problems with this:

You already knew that my opinion is contrary to your above supposed answer, as I have stated as such prior to you asking your question. To ever expect that answer from me is very short-sighted.

The above answer falls into all the things that YOU consider to be scummy. You could have easily used the above supposed answer to say that I would have been contradicting my own opinions, thus an inconsistency. And you could say that the answer coming from me would, in fact, be a lie (which coming from me it would be, because I don't think that, as I have stated many times). You also could have said that I was deflecting and avoiding your question by not answering it.

It's funny that an answer you say that you would have considered town is guilty of most of the things you consider to be scummy. This doesn't add up.

Also, if you thought moving the discussion away would be good for the town, then why couldn't you have moved the focus yourself instead? Why did you ask a question that was essentially guaranteed not to go in that direction?

[easjo682]

However, I believe that once one of them is lynched,

who says one of them is going to get lynched, I don't want to risk that, cause even through all of this I think that Lacey and semi are two townies that have taken one post and blown it out to half a dozen pages.

unvote

ps what are the oilers?

[semioldguy]

They are a professional Hockey team (a very bad one)

We could probably end the sports analogies for now.

[mavsfan41]

@ Lacey - I don't know who to believe at this point. Some of the post you have quoted about semioldguy are beat subjects. The mentioning of the lame point system you used in PS147 to convict semioldguy is not really sufficient evidence. We have all mocked in some way or another that semioldguy's system is dumb. That whole statement he has made saying "If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more" I think was misinterpreted and should be thrown away. Using that line isn't grounds for a lynch or a scum tell whatsoever. Also, you put a FoS on me for jokingly giving points to semioldguy on a system I don't have for a grammar mistake in PS91. What this seems to me is that you are grasping at straws to label anyone as scum.

To be honest, it seems that you got the trust of the town early in the game when you seemed like pro-town all the way, now that you may have everyone's trust, you seem to be using beat subjects, and fragments to convict people. Little by little I'm beginning to doubt you and have begin to be skeptical of your motives. Early in this game, I thought you were 100% town and that everyone who was on semioldguy's side was his scum partner. That cannot be true since Lacey was put at L-1. This would mean that a townie has voted for you. I was confused as to why a townie would place a vote on Lacey since she looked town all the way. Trying to build a case to why you would appear to be scummier than semioldguy, I have realized that I shouldn't label you as a townie quite yet. Also, I do think that you have questioned me about whether or not I'm scum when you mentioned it in PS149. At that point in the game, other than you and semioldguy, I do believe that I had made the most posts out of everyone, and because I had, that has lead you to question me based on the amount of post I have made. Up until now, I have thought that you were town and that semioldguy is scum, and haven't really had much to say other than that. Would you prefer if I didn't post? Or does simply posting make me scum if I don't have much to offer other than my opinion to whose scum to prevent me from lurking?

[semioldguy]

I think Lacey still only has two votes (myself and Steam-Powered Shovel)

@easjo682
Why do you unvote but not bother to put a new vote down?

[easjo682]

Because there is currently no-one I'd like to vote for, I don't have to have a vote on someone all the time you know.

[Jackabomb]

The "I Have Not Yet Begun to Fight!" Vote Count

semioldguy- horrordude, TCP, Lacey;
Horrordude- ;
Lacey- Steam, Semioldguy;

Not voting-mavsfan, easjo
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no lynch.

I believe this is correct. If not tell me.

And whosoever shall first tell me who the title of this vote count quotes, shall be receiving an award.

[semioldguy]

Because there is currently no-one I'd like to vote for, I don't have to have a vote on someone all the time you know.

No need to get defensive, I was only curious.

[easjo682]

I thought you were trying to point it out as something dodgy

[Jackabomb]

Nobody has told me who that quote is from yet... This does not make the mod happy.

If nobody has done this by the time I wake up tomorrow, another quote will be assigned as extra homework. You are interested in keeping your grades up, right?

We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction.

Good Night!

[semioldguy]

John Paul Jones said that.

[semioldguy]

Lol at the second one.... I remember Palin used that quote at the end of her resignation speech (of course she took it from Gen. MacArthur)

[Jackabomb]

So, do you finish all of your homework in school 5 minutes after it's assigned too? I didn't think so.

"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"
Try this.

[semioldguy]

I don't know that one.

[horrordude0215]

It was David Farragut

I really like mav's post in 185... it certainly makes me consider Lacey as a possible scum candidate. I still think that SOG is scummier atm, though.

[mavsfan41]

I think Lacey still only has two votes (myself and Steam-Powered Shovel)

@easjo682
Why do you unvote but not bother to put a new vote down?

You're right. I miss-read the vote tally in PS156.

[mavsfan41]

EBWOP: The vote count was in PS157 not 156. My bad.

[Lacey]

@ Lacey - I don't know who to believe at this point. Some of the post you have quoted about semioldguy are beat subjects. The mentioning of the lame point system you used in PS147 to convict semioldguy is not really sufficient evidence. We have all mocked in some way or another that semioldguy's system is dumb. That whole statement he has made saying "If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more" I think was misinterpreted and should be thrown away. Using that line isn't grounds for a lynch or a scum tell whatsoever. Also, you put a FoS on me for jokingly giving points to semioldguy on a system I don't have for a grammar mistake in PS91. What this seems to me is that you are grasping at straws to label anyone as scum.

To be honest, it seems that you got the trust of the town early in the game when you seemed like pro-town all the way, now that you may have everyone's trust, you seem to be using beat subjects, and fragments to convict people. Little by little I'm beginning to doubt you and have begin to be skeptical of your motives. Early in this game, I thought you were 100% town and that everyone who was on semioldguy's side was his scum partner. That cannot be true since Lacey was put at L-1. This would mean that a townie has voted for you. I was confused as to why a townie would place a vote on Lacey since she looked town all the way. Trying to build a case to why you would appear to be scummier than semioldguy, I have realized that I shouldn't label you as a townie quite yet. Also, I do think that you have questioned me about whether or not I'm scum when you mentioned it in PS149. At that point in the game, other than you and semioldguy, I do believe that I had made the most posts out of everyone, and because I had, that has lead you to question me based on the amount of post I have made. Up until now, I have thought that you were town and that semioldguy is scum, and haven't really had much to say other than that. Would you prefer if I didn't post? Or does simply posting make me scum if I don't have much to offer other than my opinion to whose scum to prevent me from lurking?

You didn't answer my question, or address a single issue I brought up mavsfan. Nothing I said indicated I would prefer you didn't post. In fact I've asked specifically that you DO post, and something original please.

Also explain why you have changed your story, you say above:

The mentioning of the lame point system you used in PS147 to convict semioldguy is not really sufficient evidence. We have all mocked in some way or another that semioldguy's system is dumb. That whole statement he has made saying "If I like you, I'll take some of your points away. If not, then I'll give you more" I think was misinterpreted and should be thrown away. Using that line isn't grounds for a lynch or a scum tell whatsoever.

YOU OFFERED TO HAMMER SEMIOLDGUY!

Now you want us to believe you didn't think the case was good enough?

Mavsfan, I unofficially

FoS

you for parroting others without adding anything new.

Now I am doing the following:

unvote. vote:mavsfan

For changing your story so blatantly. Semioldguy isn't off the hook yet, but he has at least been fairly consistent. You're seriously changing your story in a way which needs some explanation and I think you need some pressure now.