Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[SpyreX]

Why don't you want to touch me???

Where's the love?

[d3x]

@Zang- Are you waiting for something? I'm only assuming that it's horror to return and/or replace out, but do you have any ScumHunting you'd like to do today?

@Alm-

Are you guys

{SpyreX and Budja}

gunna start fighting?

Plz.

When you're back from your V/LA, I'd like to hear more about this. I was rereading it and it stuck me a bit odd that you'd want this particular fight and I'm curious as to what you'd hope to glean. Are you suspicious of either?

[Fate]

I have no idea what you're referring to but alright.

Well in another game I tunneled a townie for "anti-town" or "irrational" (in my eyes) play. He kept defending his decision to use random.org to decide his Night action target, and I kept hammering how fundamentally wrong he was. He kept defending himself and being stubborn about it though.

Just like how you're being stubborn about 1 scum for 3 townies being a bad trade. You're continued defense of this position tells me that you actually believe this to be true, so I can't really vote you for a disagreement of correct play.

I suppose that was a good "side-wagon" for today.

Vote: Horror

said he'd be back tomorrow.

[Porkens]

Vote: Horror

said he'd be back tomorrow.

Does this strike anyone else as bizzare?

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count -- D1

horrordude0215 (4) -- SpyreX, Porkens, Budja, Fate
Zang (3) -- d3x, AlmasterGM, RedCoyote
cruelty (2) -- Kthxbye, Debonair Danny DiPietro
AlmasterGM (1) -- cruelty

Not Voting (2) -- horrordude0215, Zang

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 02 APR 2010 at 9:15pm UTC. (Countdown)

V/LA

horrordude0215 until 2010 MAR 08
AlmasterGM until 2010 MAR 10

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Horror

said he'd be back tomorrow.

Does this strike anyone else as bizzare?

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

The awkward thing is how he announces it; personally I think if you're going to do something, just do it, no need to disclaimer everything twelve ways to Sunday, but it still feels more like a legitimate playstyle difference to me than for example cruelty's recent failure of an argument and calling that a playstyle difference.

[d3x]

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

So the correct actions is to Vote him before he gets back from that V/LA? How is horror any more able to defend himself against this Vote than he was when he started on V/LA?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

So the correct actions is to Vote him before he gets back from that V/LA? How is horror any more able to defend himself against this Vote than he was when he started on V/LA?

Is there really a functional difference between re-voting horror with no new content a day before he comes back and after he comes back? I could see your argument if he had provided new reasons that it could be considered unsporting to do that while horror was gone, but I don't really see any practical difference if he was merely resuming his position on the wagon.

[d3x]

I'd say that if you're going to leave a wagon due to the target's inability to defend himself, it wouldn't make any sense to resume your position on said wagon until he

gets

that chance. Frankly, I question the motives of anyone who does.

[horrordude0215]

I'm back, and I'll do a reread today or tomorrow, depending on how busy I am. Thanks for the support everyone... hopefully this will provide a good distraction from RL.

In the meantime, does anyone have any questions for me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd say that if you're going to leave a wagon due to the target's inability to defend himself, it wouldn't make any sense to resume your position on said wagon until he

gets

that chance. Frankly, I question the motives of anyone who does.

But at the same time you don't want to take pressure off him simply he went on V/LA; and if you encourage behavior that allows that to happen then you've created a perverse system where people can damp suspicion on themselves by going on V/LA.

[Zang]

@Zang- Are you waiting for something? I'm only assuming that it's horror to return and/or replace out, but do you have any ScumHunting you'd like to do today?

well he's back so if I was waiting there is no longer a need to.

[Porkens]

I guess for me it's a matter of intonation failing over the internet.

Is the vote a punishment for not being back early?

I don't see the point of leaving the wagon just to rejoin it with no interstitial changes.

[Fate]

Horror was my vote before he went V/LA. I voted him in expectation of him coming back from V/LA, as no other suspect went higher than him on my list in that time.

I guess you're reading too much into me saying, "said he'd be back tomorrow" right after my vote. My intention was:"He said he was going to be back tomorrow, so I'll take my place back on the wagon."

As opposed to it being a direct explanation for my vote.

[d3x]

Meh. I guess I can see that combined with your UnVote post.

He seems like a good substitute

until that other old guy gets back

.

<emphasis mine>

[Budja]

No prob with Fate. DDD's post 155 explains it best.

[Kthxbye]

Well, I STILL don't like that cruelty lied (from my view point) even about something so trivial. I don't think it's a null tell. This isn't a newbie game. I don't buy the embarrassed remark as an excuse (note: cruelty didn't give this reason). That being said, there's not much else from him that strikes me as scummy atm.

I will say that I believe there is a VERY thin line between ultra cautious town and scum.

p153: lol, no.

p157: I agree with DDD here. This is the way I read it when catching up. That said, I disagree with d3x .

d3x

: What are these motives you question? What makes Fate's revote of horror suspicious? What scum motivation for doing that do you see? Though I see you backed off on p164, I'd still like to see what scum motivation there would have been if he hadn't posted the quoted text earlier.

Zang

: p161. He's back. IF you were waiting on him, what are you waiting for now? Do you not have any questions for him? He even posted that he would be looking for questions his way. What are you waiting for? Him to post something scummy so you can jump all over it? I can no longer ignore your play style. Explain your thoughts and reasons for your last few posts. Namely, explain what you are waiting for Horror to say/answer, why you haven't questioned him since you seem to have tunnel vision, and why you didn't address your mis-read of my quality/quantity post.

unvote, Vote: Zang

Horror

: You have a lot of catching up to do, so I won't bombard you with a shit ton of questions. Only one thing really that I'd like to you handle right now (aside from your catching up and analysis of the game thus far).

In you ISO, p1 looks like an RVS/joke vote, p2 looks like an actual accusation/scum-hunting question about the person you RVS voted, and p3 is an unvote stating that it was just an RVS vote to begin with and you don't really think Zang has done anything scummy to deserve your vote (and has the hint that you will be overlooking him in your question to find someone who is scummy in your opinion).

Basically, these posts don't really line up. Do you think Zang explained his "overreaction" well enough for you to not be suspicious of it? If so, why did you use the 'it was an RVS vote' reason for unvoting instead of something like 'i believe his reasoning for overreacting'? This is where the main contradiction lies for me at least. That said, there's not much else to go on until you catch up and posts some thoughts or 'find someone scummy iyo'.

[SpyreX]

Kthx beeat me to it

This:

well he's back so if I was waiting there is no longer a need to.

Couldn't be more of a slippery sentence if it tried. Good lord man.

[Fate]

Meh, waiting to hear from horror. As for questions, just the basic analysis of the game so far, ideally throwing down a vote.

The problem with Zang's lynch is that being on it is a null-tell. It really boils down to whether you have played with him before. He's a better Vig target than a lynch, imo.

The Blood God wants more high quality lynches!!!

[d3x]

Kthx- Reread p158, first sentence. I believe the answers you're looking for about why I found it suspicious are in there.

I had a question for Fate about his reVote. DDDP and I debated the potential reasons for Voting {adding pressure} to a wagon with an absent target. I didn't like his stance. When Fate came back in and cleared up his own intention, I 'backed down'. For clarification, I still don't agree with DDDP's position, but that's theory as no one is taking that stance.

The potential Scum motivation would be adding pressure on a weak townie he/she knew wouldn't be able to defend against with the intention of overwhelming the defendant upon their return. As this was cleared up when Fate answered my question, I don't think it's an issue.

[horrordude0215]

I feel bad about this, but

Mod: Replacing out

I have too much to worry about right now, and can't focus on this too much... PLEASE don't take it out on my replacement. I read my posts and literally said "WTF?"... I think it was because of my lack of sleep/paying attention.

Good luck in the rest of the game everyone, though!

[SpyreX]

Le sigh

[Kthxbye]

/sigh indeed. ah well.

I have to say I agree with Fate's p168 in that Zang would be a good vig hit. That said, I wouldn't know who else would be a good lynch today. Everyone else seems to be playing a pretty tight game in that the scum are blending in well with everyone else so far IMO. We need more discussion.

It did strike me a tad bit odd this comment from Horror: "PLEASE don't take it out on my replacement." I don't know how I feel about that. It's something I could see myself saying if I replaced out w/e my alignment...at the same time though....I dunno, just a tad odd like I said.

/sigh again. Time for another re-read....yay...

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count -- D1

horrordude0215

(4) -- SpyreX, Porkens, Budja, Fate
Zang (4) -- d3x, AlmasterGM, RedCoyote, Kthxbye
cruelty (1) -- Debonair Danny DiPietro
AlmasterGM (1) -- cruelty

Not Voting (2) --

horrordude0215

, Zang

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 02 APR 2010 at 9:15pm UTC. (Countdown)

V/LA

AlmasterGM until 2010 MAR 10

Notes

Seeking a replacement for horrordude0215

[Zang]

Zang: p161. He's back. IF you were waiting on him, what are you waiting for now? Do you not have any questions for him? He even posted that he would be looking for questions his way. What are you waiting for? Him to post something scummy so you can jump all over it? I can no longer ignore your play style. Explain your thoughts and reasons for your last few posts. Namely, explain what you are waiting for Horror to say/answer, why you haven't questioned him since you seem to have tunnel vision, and why you didn't address your mis-read of my quality/quantity post.

I WAS waiting for him to defend himself but NOW I'm waiting for his replacement. Nobody genneraly look like scum. Horror was the only one who made me think scum but that could just be because of life so if his replacement is just as bad then there's a good chance he might be scum. And i didn't ask him because he shouldn't need questions to be able to defend himself.