Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[Col.Cathart]

Votecount 1.5

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

If you'll encounter any kind of mistake in my vote count - please point it out.

RayFrost (3):

Copper, Pomegranate, Nobody Special
Sajin (1): Sotty7
TheCheshireCat (1): Inquisitor JL
Nobody Special (1): Ythan
Ythan (1): Thor665

not voting: RayFrost, Zorblag, ScramblesTheDeathDealer, Sajin, TheCheshireCat.

current deadline is:

Thursday, 18.03.2010 at 00:30 AM GMT +1 (Wednesday, 17.03.2010 at 11:30 PM GMT, 6:30 PM EST, 3:30 PM PST).

[Thor665]

If you do not find him scummy, but instead simply anti-town, maybe you could explain then why you support an anti-town lynch?

Does the difference between 'anti-town' and 'scummy' matter here? Either way he is not working with the town to find a good scum canidate to lynch, which is effect hurting town, which scummy. Just trying to get some clarification.

Scrambles who deals death in various ways basically did sum up the crux of my position, but since you asked the question of me I figured I'd ramble on about it a bit as well. If you want the tl:dr version just look at his post.

In short, there are a variety of actions that can happen in this game. Some of these actions help town, and some hinder it. However, simply because an action hinders or does not help town does not make it an action that a scummy player would do. For instance - take a self vote. Generally speaking there is no reason for a player of any alignment (with certain exceptions) to ever self vote, and a self vote does not help town.

However, a self vote is not a scummy action either because it doesn't help the scum team.

Therefore a self vote is part of a third set of actions in which you agree that the action is anti-town but cannot actually say the action is pro scum. I see Ray's current action set falling this way. Is he helping town? Most assuredly not. Is he helping scum? ...well, no, I don't see that either. Therefore I see a player who is anti-town but is not necessarily pro-scum and is therefore a less beneficial lynch in my mind from a player who is pro-scum. That is the difference betwixt scummy and anti-town.

@Chesire - So, to re ask the question, do you find Ray scummy, why/why not? If not; why do you support an anti-town lynch?

[Ythan]

If I had to pick a lynch right now it'd be Ray. So my vote is on Ray.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

If I had to pick a lynch right now it'd be Ray. So my vote is on Ray.

There's a problem with this statement - you're vote isn't on Ray, it's on Nobody Special.

[Ythan]

My bad. That was why I voted Ray before NS finally showed up.

[Ythan]

This is one of four games I'm in, and one of two in which I'm voting for NS. Simple mistake, if you don't believe me then so be it.

[Nobody Special]

As far as the major wagons go I prefer a Ray vote over a Ythan vote, but Thor's case does give me something to chew on. I want Ray to give some content and explain why he is breaking his meta in this game and why he even felt the need to to mention this in the first place.

It's simple: Ray claims to be breaking his meta; I'd bet anything that's just a ruse and he's scum.

Thoughts?

[Ythan]

I'd bet anything that's just a ruse and he's scum.

You see awfully certain based on not a whole lot of information. Has he done anything else that actually makes you suspicious?

[Thor665]

@Scrambles - currently you are not voting anyone. Why is this and also, currently whom do you find most suspicious?

@InquisitorJL - you say you are happy with your Cheshire vote sine 'it's as good as anyone'. Since I think at least a few of the other wagons out there now at least have some concept of the logic of why they're voting who they are would you care to point out what you see as the strongest aspects supporting you in keeping your vote on Cheshire?

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

As far as the major wagons go I prefer a Ray vote over a Ythan vote, but Thor's case does give me something to chew on. I want Ray to give some content and explain why he is breaking his meta in this game and why he even felt the need to to mention this in the first place.

It's simple: Ray claims to be breaking his meta; I'd bet anything that's just a ruse and he's scum.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that this has been said....what, fifteen times before your post, and you seem to be bandwagoning. I'd bet that if Ray flips scum, your his scumbuddy, and if Ray flips town (all of this is assuming he's lynched at some point), your scum.

[Ythan]

I'd bet that if Ray flips scum, your his scumbuddy, and if Ray flips town (all of this is assuming he's lynched at some point), your scum.

So unless Ray is a survivor, NS is scum in your estimation?

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

@Scrambles - currently you are not voting anyone. Why is this and also, currently whom do you find most suspicious?

@InquisitorJL - you say you are happy with your Cheshire vote sine 'it's as good as anyone'. Since I think at least a few of the other wagons out there now at least have some concept of the logic of why they're voting who they are would you care to point out what you see as the strongest aspects supporting you in keeping your vote on Cheshire?

Ray and Nobody Special, (read my previous post). Ray because of his whole meta thing. I don't see it as anything voteworthy however, I'd like to see what happens first.

[Thor665]

I'd bet that if Ray flips scum, your his scumbuddy, and if Ray flips town (all of this is assuming he's lynched at some point), your scum.

So unless Ray is a survivor, NS is scum in your estimation?

Please expound.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

I'd bet that if Ray flips scum, your his scumbuddy, and if Ray flips town (all of this is assuming he's lynched at some point), your scum.

So unless Ray is a survivor, NS is scum in your estimation?

Not necessarily, we've still got a whole game ahead of us. Depending on what happens in the upcoming days and nights could easily change my opinions on things, as it could (or should, at the very least) anyones.

[Thor665]

And to clarify my previous is directed at Scrambles, not Ythan - I support Ythan's line of questioning.

[Sotty7]

Scrambles, post 259 and 261 don't work together. Care to explain why you see NS as scum no matter what and yet that's not vote worthy?

[Ythan]

I'd bet that if Ray flips scum, your his scumbuddy, and if Ray flips town (all of this is assuming he's lynched at some point), your scum.

So unless Ray is a survivor, NS is scum in your estimation?

Not necessarily, we've still got a whole game ahead of us. Depending on what happens in the upcoming days and nights could easily change my opinions on things, as it could (or should, at the very least) anyones.

Dodgy. You just said you'd bet NS is scum regardless of Ray's flip.

[Thor665]

Also, what is the evidence that NS is scum no matter which way Ray flips - and why wouldn't you be voting him if that's what you believe?

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

I'ma wait a few minutes before answering as the posts are pouring in.

[Ythan]

There is only one questions raised against you right now.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

There is only one questions raised against you right now.

I understand this, but that question is being said a variety of times with different accomodations to it.

[Thor665]

Feel free to answer Sotty's over mine - they're basically the same question in different words.

[Ythan]

Dodgy.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

As for expounding (absolutely love that word), here's some clarification:

Ray Flips Scum
------------------
NS voted for Ray after what I think is a very interesting case developed against him, bandwagon? I think so. Especially since the case seemed valid (again, IMO), I believe NS [if scum] thought Ray might get lynched. He then voted, in an attempt to bus his partner.

Ray Flips Town
-----------------
NS bandwagons on a Townie, which I would dislike.


I shouldn't have said either way he's scum, I'll admit that was a bit much, but either way to me it does look very suspicious.
I didn't vote because I would like to see what NS does.
[Kids, the moral to this post is to never bandwagon.]

[Ythan]

[Kids, the moral to this post is to never bandwagon.]

Really? Feels like you're just stalling. Well not just, also backpedaling.