Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[Ythan]

Smilies don't make the game not serious. Not taking it so seriously makes it not serious.

[Pomegranate]

Maybe he's "breaking his meta", but he's not providing any real content, which is scummy anyway. And I've played with scumRayFrost three times. He basically doesn't do anything.

How well do you know his town play?

I know enough about his town play to say that he is contributory and scumhunts.

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I'm doing away with the meta, and I have to say that it is quite freeing, even if it is annoying to go against my usual and comfortable playstyle.

It's still scummy if you don't provide any content. The case isn't really built on meta, but on your lack of scumhunting, and looking like you're trying to fly under the radar. Thee meta just helps the case along.

--

ITT RF admits that he's playing similarly to how he plays as a SK.

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Little bit of WIFOM, if you would just ignore that fact that Pom is going based off your age, that whole discussion will end, thus ending a never ending circle convo.

Um, it was over when you brought it up again.

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[...] is possible that he is playing his town role like his usual scum [...]

That would be anti-town. Trying to follow one's scum meta (when it's to active lurk) is not good- it's being purposefully anti-town, whick wouldn't be playing towards his win condition.

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I am waiting for contributions from Zorblag, Sajin, and NS.

[Ythan]

Hate to do it but

unvote vote RayFrost

[Pomegranate]

I don't know why you hate to do it....

[Ythan]

I am full of hate.

[RayFrost]

Well, the game's reached pg. 10, you guys will get content from me when I've finished my schoolwork for the day.

[Thor665]

Hate to do it but

unvote vote RayFrost

Out of curiosity, why? In this post you told me you didn't particularly find Ray's actions scummy. What changed?

[Ythan]

I don't find his actions terribly scummy. However, as I've said I don't have a lot to go on in this game, and as I've also said I don't think that a declaration of breaking meta should completely excuse a broken meta. His unusual behavior is more than what I had on IJL.

[Thor665]

I don't think that a declaration of breaking meta should completely excuse a broken meta.

I would actually say a declaration of breaking meta is *exactly* what excuses a broken meta.

You're now saying you don't find Ray's actions "terribly scummy" where before you said you didn't find them "particularly scummy". Do you consider there to be a difference in how scummy you find him between those two comments? Or do you mean the same thing by both phrases?

Also, a yes or no question - do you find Ray scummy?

[Nobody Special]

I also find RayF's lack of participation .... disturbing.

Vote: RayFrost

This is not the Ray I know. Also, anyone attempting to break their own known meta deserves to be lynched,

especially

if not doing anything.

[Thor665]

I also find RayF's lack of participation .... disturbing

Pot, meet kettle.

anyone attempting to break their own known meta deserves to be lynched

Could you expand on this concept please? This sounds like you're choosing to paint your vote in a simple policy lynch mentality. Do you find Ray scummy, and if so why? If you do not find him scummy, but instead simply anti-town, maybe you could explain then why you support an anti-town lynch?

[Ythan]

I don't think that a declaration of breaking meta should completely excuse a broken meta.

I would actually say a declaration of breaking meta is *exactly* what excuses a broken meta.

You're now saying you don't find Ray's actions "terribly scummy" where before you said you didn't find them "particularly scummy". Do you consider there to be a difference in how scummy you find him between those two comments? Or do you mean the same thing by both phrases?

Also, a yes or no question - do you find Ray scummy?

First, I disagree. Second, no right now he's my best bet for a lynch today. Third, see second.

[Ythan]

I also find RayF's lack of participation .... disturbing.

Vote: RayFrost

This is not the Ray I know. Also, anyone attempting to break their own known meta deserves to be lynched,

especially

if not doing anything.

Actually I like this much better.

unvote vote Nobody Special

[Pomegranate]

I also find RayF's lack of participation .... disturbing.

Vote: RayFrost

This is not the Ray I know. Also, anyone attempting to break their own known meta deserves to be lynched,

especially

if not doing anything.

Y'know NS, I also find your lack of participation... disturbing.

FoS: Nobody Special

.

[Thor665]

First, I disagree. Second, no right now he's my best bet for a lynch today. Third, see second.

Let's break down my thought process on this;

1. You say that Ray is acting outside of his usual meta (he agrees with this)
2. You do not particularly find him scummy.
3. You vote for him.

If you don't find him scummy what does it matter that he's acting outside of his usual meta? Either his actions are scummy or they are not. Just because he's your "best bet" for a lynch today (and by that I'll hopefully presume you mean "most scummy seeming player") I don't understand how you get there unless you believe he is scummy which you don't seem comfortable about saying clearly one way or the other.

This seems like you are hopping on the wagon while also distancing from it.
I find that behavior scummy.

Unvote: ScramblestheDeathDealer
Vote: Ythan

[Ythan]

I've only played with Ray as town and he always acted pretty much the opposite of how he is here. I'm taking other players' claims that this is how he acts as scum at face value.

[Thor665]

I've only played with Ray as town and he always acted pretty much the opposite of how he is here.

Pretty much the opposite? Disclaimer language is disclaimer...ry

I'm taking other players' claims that this is how he acts as scum at face value.

Ah, okay, I didn't realize you were just following the herd and going with the reads of others. This should clear you in my mind...how exactly?

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Ray is acting in his 'scum meta'. However, currently his actions appear simply more anti-town rather then scummy. You voted for him, distanced yourself from the vote, and changed the vote immediately after I called you on supplying some input for your vote. Voting for someone who is anti-town rather then scummy and not really getting behind that vote is, to my mind, a pretty decent scum tell.

[Ythan]

Yawn. No disclaimer language, I'm not going to trudge through Ray's meta myself on a minor vote, I didn't distance from the vote, I changed the vote because of the post I replied to, blah blah.

[Copper]

Dismiss it all you want, Ythan, but I think Thor brings up some valid points here.

Your post 227 in particular rubs me the wrong way. I realize "hate to do it" is a figure of speech, but your posts have a consistent tone as though your arm is being twisted. No one is forcing you to do anything. Either you think RayFrost is worthy of your vote, or you don't. You're going to have to defend your position either way.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7 - What was it bout the manner SFG replaced out that makes you so contented in the Saijin vote?

Before I put any real pressure on she was happy to push lurkers while laying the grounds for lurking herself. I then put my vote on her and suddenly she can't play two games at once? I don't buy it. So it is mostly the timing of her replacement request that gives me a scum feel. It came as a direct result from pressure and I have to think she would have stuck around if I hadn't done anything.

@Thor,
I don't really mind Pom's SFG vote considering it was RVS, but Sotty's bothers me a bit. He voted for her because "she made up an excuse for lurking" and "Continued RVS." Considering she was in another game at the time and clearly stated she couldn't handle two, plus the fact she was sick obviously is going to detach her from the game a bit, which seems reason enough for her RVS continuation and lurking.

Go back and look at the timing of how quickly she went from, “oh I'll be here but I might lurk.” to, “omg I can't handle the pressure of two games!” My vote on her was the only real thing she had to react to and she chooses to replace out. I don't see a townie motivation for that, it could just be anti-town, but right now I think that slot is likely scum. Saijn's lurking isn't changing my mind on that either.

lol i learned that from Panacea It makes the game not so serious.

Actually I find it is away for the player mask their posts. It makes them appear happy and carefree and can been used to try and blend into the town. But if this is your meta in that you post smiles all the time in like every post, then it is probably a null tell with you.

As far as the major wagons go I prefer a Ray vote over a Ythan vote, but Thor's case does give me something to chew on. I want Ray to give some content and explain why he is breaking his meta in this game and why he even felt the need to to mention this in the first place.

Thor when you call Ray anti town am I right in assuming you don't agree with his wagon?

[Thor665]

Thor when you call Ray anti town am I right in assuming you don't agree with his wagon?

A fair question.

Overall I am neutral of the Ray wagon. I am not fond of his current tack of actions (and am *really* hoping he fulfills his comment that now that we're 10 pages in he's going to offer thoughts). However, I can't ascribe any clear scum actions to him at the moment either. So all I currently see on him is a basic policy lynch of "he's lurking and/or not helping town" which though not totally unreasonable as an early Day 1 vote does not strike me as the optimal lynch for town to eventually make.

[TheCheshireCat]

If you do not find him scummy, but instead simply anti-town, maybe you could explain then why you support an anti-town lynch?

Does the difference between 'anti-town' and 'scummy' matter here? Either way he is not working with the town to find a good scum canidate to lynch, which is effect hurting town, which scummy. Just trying to get some clarification.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

If you do not find him scummy, but instead simply anti-town, maybe you could explain then why you support an anti-town lynch?

Does the difference between 'anti-town' and 'scummy' matter here? Either way he is not working with the town to find a good scum canidate to lynch, which is effect hurting town, which scummy. Just trying to get some clarification.

TCC, the objective of this game is to lynch scum, not scummy townies

[TheCheshireCat]

lol well thanks for that clarification Scrambles! lol

[Col.Cathart]

Prodding Sajin