Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[TheLonging]

Vote: Gheb

for not providing a reason for the vote or FoS at all.

[Gheb]

Vote for the wagon.
FoS for discouraging serious discussion.

Thought both were obvious.

[TheLonging]

I see we are past the RVS stage. Well then

Unvote

Carry on.

[Gheb]

Though "discouraging serious discussion" is a bit of an exaggeration. It's more trying to get us back into RVS when somebody tries to get things serious soon.

[TheLonging]

I agree that getting out of RVS early is great, gives us more time for scumhunting.

[farside22]

How as lacey's vote and comment discouraging serious discussion?
I see it as voting for kmd for claiming his vote as something serious.

Serious question does anyone think scum would post a vote like that and make themselves obvious?
My rule on scum is typically they are not dumb. They get tripped up on small things that lead to making you grill then lynch them.

[TheLonging]

I've played a lot of games with stupid scum, and some of the time people write them off as town because "Why would scum do something stupid like that??"

[farside22]

links please

[Lacey]

Though "discouraging serious discussion" is a bit of an exaggeration. It's more trying to get us back into RVS when somebody tries to get things serious soon.

Why would you want us back in RVS? We need to get people talking, and the best way to do that is get out of RVS as soon as we can!

@farside, I have no read on kmcd, I just want him to explain his comment so we can get a dialogue rolling.

[Lacey]

I've played a lot of games with stupid scum, and some of the time people write them off as town because "Why would scum do something stupid like that??"

In my experience, scum occasionally do stupid things, but more often than not they're far cleverer than town gives them credit.

Usually town gets sidetracked on an "obvscum" player who turns out to be an anti-town townie.

So I tend to agree with farside on this one.

[TheLonging]

links please

Those games are long far and gone. Most of them on EpicMafia, some on some forum I don't really remember, but I do remember the experience. Are you saying it's impossible for this to happen farside?

[farside22]

I almost want to point to the game lacey and I had where we had a very anti-town player that turned out to be town.
I'm not saying impossible in fact most players I know to trip up early are newbies. However Kmd has been playing for a long time and I look at him as clever scum. He's one I keep an eye on till I'm convinced he's town more often then not.

[TheLonging]

I know though that anti-town townies are more common than stupid scum. I'm saying that the latter can happen. This is my 2nd game with kmd so my view on him will be different than yours maybe, since I don't know his meta.

[CSL]

Well, I see everyone but Sanhora confirm. Sanhora has 24 hours before I start hunting for a replacement. Expect a votecount shortly.

[Lacey]

I almost want to point to the game lacey and I had where we had a very anti-town player that turned out to be town.
I'm not saying impossible in fact most players I know to trip up early are newbies. However Kmd has been playing for a long time and I look at him as clever scum. He's one I keep an eye on till I'm convinced he's town more often then not.

This is actually a great topic farside. Let's open it for general discussion.

How do we sort anti-town townies from scum? What are the tells smart scum tend to drop?

[CSL]

Flavor

As you stand in the gymnasium, as you all wanted to go there since it was roomy, you notice that it is mostly silent, as the other students there to support their friends watch the 12 of you talk furiously. Accusing fingers began pointing, as the participants' podiums started glowing. There were seven dots, some glowing, some not. Some people didn't have any. The podiums, if opened, would send someone plummeting to their doom. You all kept talking in the meantime..

The Very First votecount

kmd4390 (L-4) Fongoid, Gheb, Lacey
Fongoid (L-6) kmd4390
farside22 (L-7)
Sanhora (L-7)
The Quintastic One (L-7)
Gheb (L-6) farside22
springlullaby (L-7)
DTMaster (L-7)
GoroHonda (L-7)
Lacey (L-7)
TheLonging (L-7)
JacobSavage (L-7)

Not voting: Everyone else

With 12 alive, 7 will lynch

Sanhora has 21 hours before I replace him.

[farside22]

This is actually a great topic farside. Let's open it for general discussion.

How do we sort anti-town townies from scum? What are the tells smart scum tend to drop?

anti-town god lets bring up players just from the top of my head. CSL, ness, empking, if you have meta on a player that typically plays anti-town they are the hard ones to figure out as they always play anti-town.
Smart scum makes slips that are unintentional. Lurkering, quiet bw, following, not making sound judgements, more laid back or the really smart ones can be aggressive but change their mind because they didn't think about a mislynch can mean for them. They can buddy up, they can distance themselves well. They can buss.

This game I'm not going to say too much of what I expect but scum is looking for scum too. There are 2 groups so they will have a better chance to blend in then most other games.

[Lacey]

This game I'm not going to say too much of what I expect but scum is looking for scum too. There are 2 groups so they will have a better chance to blend in then most other games.

Seems in some ways, however, that the odds are more in favor of town in this sort of situation, which may help to some degree, especially with scum fighting amongst themselves.

I just did a regression on the setup, and even not factoring in the doctor, the setup seems slightly in favor of town, which is a good thing

[The Quintastic One]

Well if you guys want an example of Anti-Town Vs. Scummy, just Meta my games. I am almost always accused of being the scummiest player, dumb, moronic, anti-town and newbish, and yet I have only played one game where I was scum.

Yeah, like me. ~ CSL

People don't like my honesty, as I will tell you that as town, I always speak my mind. I always reveal how my mind is working, what my thought process was that leads me to my scumtells of other players, and every step of logic I use to confirm my votes. Yet 99% of the time my scumhunting is often interpreted as anti-town & flawed. Yet I always flip town when my behavior gets me lynched.

As to the current debate going on, whether or not Gheb wanted us back in RVS or Lacey wanted us out of RVS, I find both situations Null Tells. You can't call somebody scummy just because they enjoy longer RVS', and you can't call somebody scummy just because they want to get right down to the nitty gritty of scumhunting. In the long run, I support Lacey's position. But I certainly don't implicate Gheb for his reasonings yet either.

[DTMaster]

@Fongoid
Wow, OMGUS much? I expected your reaction given that KMD said it was a serious vote, however you're attacking someone pretty harshly for the early game vote.

Red flag alert, someone is very antsy right now.

@Lacey
1. Actually, taken from Battle Mage's theory, RVS is just as useful as discussion. RVS frustrates scum because it's less likely to result in tunneling fights. You shouldn't discredit the RVS.

2. Depending on night actions, the town could also get screwed :<. (Recalls the last game lol)

@Town
Aside from mafia theory discussion, I'm going to let my vote do some talking for now.

Vote Fongoid

@CSL
Sanhora flaked from another game of mine. Better get a replacement out soon.

[Lacey]

@Lacey
1. Actually, taken from Battle Mage's theory, RVS is just as useful as discussion. RVS frustrates scum because it's less likely to result in tunneling fights. You shouldn't discredit the RVS.

But what does it gain town?

[GoroHonda]

howdy

[GoroHonda]

vote:kmd4390

For claiming to vote other than RVS.

dear lacey,

could you explain this please?
i'm not so concerned as to the actual vote as i am to the actual reason

are you voting him because he's voting for another reason than randomly?

[GoroHonda]

last thought for the morning:

vote dtmaster

post 44

[Lacey]

vote:kmd4390

For claiming to vote other than RVS.

dear lacey,

could you explain this please?
i'm not so concerned as to the actual vote as i am to the actual reason

are you voting him because he's voting for another reason than randomly?

It was mainly RVS on my part as well, but yes. He claims to be voting for a real reason (I think), when there has been nothing but confirms by the time of his vote.

What's the real reason? How did he come to his conclusion so quickly? I think he ought to share it with the rest of us.