Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[camn]

FIFI>>>
It has occurred to me you don't know how to play LyLo.

Lynch me, and the town loses. Period.
This is not like other days, where you can lynch for information, or on a hunch.
YOu need to play today BETTER than you have other days.. and so far you are NOT doing so... so unless you are scum (which I doubt), you should start looking into other suspects.

If you are town, which I think you are, then you are probably our only power role, and a practically a confirmed one at that. That gives you a special position of leadership.. which gives you the opportunity to lead us RIGHT into a town loss.

Cramming a camn-lynch down everyones throat is a bad play. Even if I WERE scum, a scum quicklynch is a BAD PLAY. We need three scumlynches in a row, and the more you fixate on me, the less likely it becomes. We need info, and we need a lot of it.. so stop it.

[Incognito]

Yeah, this Nikanor thing is getting ridiculous. I was gonna keep waiting for him before revealing what I'm thinking, but I'm not gonna allow him to hold up the game anymore from my end.

My top suspect for Today is Nikanor with the other hammerhead, jbernier93, not far behind him. I know I mentioned that I was getting a Town read off of Nikanor Yesterday but that was

before

he became even more lurktastic than he was to begin with and way before he placed that scummilicious hammer on Jasper. I just wanted to have a look at the hammer post itself to explain why I disliked it:

First, a couple things that drew my attention:

So the way I see it, if we lynch Jasper we are eliminating a pretty big threat. If it turns out he was telling the truth at least we know we're not lynching a PR. My gut is just too strong on this one, and along with everything else it just makes sense.

A big threat? A threat to whom?

I think he mentions a decent question here, but I strongly dislike how he didn't wait for Seven to respond to his own question before casting the hammer. Generally when you're still in the "questioning phase" of a Day, you actually

wait

for the person you're questioning to respond to the actual question before deciding to end the Day. To ask this question and then throw the hammer seems extremely insincere to me.

Next we get this:

Very good. Jasper is probably scum. And if he's not, jason is scum for distancing himself from the lynch. jason has said that he doesn't think Jasper is scum, but doesn't push too hard against the lynch. That is a

huge

scumtell, and I'd be willing to lynch a person off that alone.

I don't like the way he seems to be attempting to set up Jason in the event of a possible Jasper-mislynch here. I know I mentioned that Jason was my top suspect Yesterday but the above portion that I've quoted here really bugs me because I just think that a hypo Nikanor-Town would have been interested in figuring out Jason a bit more instead of just laying down the hammer on Jasper. After all, Jason was experiencing a bit of pressure from me and camn and was brought to the limelight by us, so why would a hypo Nikanor-town not want to help with trying to figure out Jason's alignment when the spotlight was already on Jason to begin with?

Finally, this is the real kicker for me:

I just want this game day to be over, and I feel that tomorrow is going to be a great day.

Vote: Jasper.

I don't like the above because again, it shows a lack of sincerity. Why would you just want the game Day to be over when you apparently had an outstanding question left for Seven and some "issues" with Jason's play? Wouldn't you want to get to the bottom of that stuff if you were Town especially if you had a major leave of absence from the thread? Also, why not comment on my entrance or anything that I brought to the forefront or things that other people might have brought to the forefront about me? I say this because, if I'm not mistaken, you did have my predecessor McZombie in your sight for at least

some

portion of the game, so I don't get why you wouldn't want to figure things out with me as well before ending the Day.



As for jbernier93, I already mentioned that I had almost no read on him after I completed my read Yesterday, but I REALLY didn't like the wishy-washiness of his recent post #768. It just strikes me as an extremely lazy post, and I think scum would be more likely to make a lazy post like that in a potential LyLo situation than Town would. Also, the hammer from Day 1 still resounds in my head a bit too -- I might have given more slack to a Newbie for hammering like that but jbernier claimed to be an alt at some point so he's clearly not a green player.

I'm not sure who my third suspect would be right now. I still don't really see the case on camn, so I wouldn't be inclined to lynch her Today. And I still think fifi is very likely a Town Gunsmith. So that would leave me with Seven, Wacky, and jason to comb through. I still think my case on Jason has some merit to it, so I think he'd probably be my number 3 but certain things about Wacky and Seven still bug me, so I'd need to look through their play to see if I still buy into my Jason-stuff at this point.

I won't be voting just yet since it's LyLo but just to get something formal out there:

MAJOR FoS: Nikanor, jbernier93

.

I'll catch up with the recent posts in my next post.

[Incognito]

I think it was pretty clear from my other post that my top suspects are wacky seven and incog, but of the three I'm not sure which I'll vote for today. Although like I said nik is vaguely scummy as well

Actually, I didn't find this clear at all. Your entire post seemed extremely wishy-washy to me.

Plus, while we wait for nik's claim, i have been thinking.. why did scum targeted the jailkeeper instead of me?

You

do

understand the function of a Jailkeeper, right? It seems pretty obvious to me as to why the scum would want to target a JK over a claimed Gunsmith assuming you're telling the truth about your role.

Also, I think the time has come for you to claim your results. Can you do so, please?

Back from my weekend V/LA later on this evening/ tomorrow morning... just thought I would check in as I have not posted in a couple of days.

Any thoughts about what's been going on?

I don't think I've seen a formal case made against me, so there's not much for me to respond to in defense of myself. So that's about all I have to add for Today unless something else comes up.

[Incognito]

I don't think I've seen a formal case made against me, so there's not much for me to respond to in defense of myself. So that's about all I have to add for Today unless something else comes up.

And by "Today" I meant today with the lowercase haha.

[The1fifi]

I have to agree with camn. I understand the situation, and i am liking your last posts, which worries me, cause that means a change in your playstyle.

My result? Well, i was roleblocked.

Incog, i like your case on nikanor.. but not that much that i'll go with it. You could be guiding a mislynch over a town lurker. I need to do a iso of camn, to be sure i can let go of her, and analyze nikanor. Can everyone please post the person whose lynch they would support the most?

Plus, i also consider looking carefully at everyone assuming i am town without question.


And about the jailkeeper.. well, its a protective role, but its not that good, cause it can't protect a power role withouth roleblocking him.

[Incognito]

Roleblocked? I thought you implied somewhere that you had a gun result on someone?

If you're telling the truth about that, that doesn't really give us much info about what kind of power role(s) (if any) the scum might have at this point since I could see the block itself coming from a scum RB, Zachrulez possibly targeting you last Night, or both.

And about the jailkeeper.. well, its a protective role, but its not that good, cause it can't protect a power role withouth roleblocking him.

Yes, but it still would prevent the scums from killing you if you're town and with your now proven "Gun" result on what we now know to be Jasper-town, you're about as confirmed as they come (since the balance of this game seems to make me lean towards thinking that you're more likely to be a town Gunsmith than a scum one). Plus it could act as a direct roleblocker if it targets the scum who was responsible for submitting the kill for a particular Night assuming that's the way Sotty-mod is running things here.

[The1fifi]

10th Vote count of day two

Seven 5: (

jbernier93

, Zachrulez, Jasper, Camn,

Nikanor

)

Jasper 2: (Wacky, Seven)
McZombie 1: (The1fifi)

Not Voting 2:

McZombie, jasonT1981

-With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch
-Deadline is 3/8 @ 8am CST[/color]

Final Vote count of day two

Jasper 6: (

Wacky

, Seven,

jbernier93

, The1fifi, Zachrulez,

Nikanor

)

JasonT1981 2: (Incognito, Camn)
Camn 1: (jasonT1981)

Not Voting 1:

Jasper

-A lynch has been reached.
-Mod scene up coming...[/color]

Last vote count of day one

DTMaster 7: (

Wacky

, Jasper, Echo, jasonT1981, McZombie,

Nikanor

,

jbernier93

)

The1fifi 1: (Zachrulez)
Regfan 1: (The1fifi)
Jasper 1: (DTMaster)
McZombie 1: (Regfan)

Not Voting 1:

Seven

-A lynch has been reached
-Mod scene forthcoming...

(i am just gona assume you all believe i am town, so it is easiest to do this)

Ok.. Of the 5 people not in the DTm wagon, 4 of them are confirmed town, except seven. That makes us 100% sure at least 2 scum are in it. Ok, now we cross check with jasper's wagon.

People on both of them:
-Wacky
-Jbernier
-Nikanor

Two of this players are definetely suspicious, and we can consider wacky to be doing a good job as scum playing town. That gives us a really good percentage of hitting scum, if we lynch one of this 3 players.

NOW, we look at the 5 person quick wagon that formed on Seven during day 2.. And who is on Dtm's wagon, jasper's wagon AND the Seven quickwagon?

-Jbernier.
-Nikanor.

I am really confident about lynching one of this players, and i'd like to hear everyone's opinion.

[jbernier93]

JBs 768 is so scummy my eyes are bleeding.

[iso translator ENGAGE!]

Wacky - Seems town but has a few scummy posts
camn Echo - Seem town (probably my scum buddy)
Nikanor - Seems town but has a few scummy posts
Incognito McZombie - McZ seemed scummy, and Incog is my buddy so Imma say neutral.
The1fifi - everyone believes his claim, can't say anything about him
jasonT1981 inverno - I don't know but has some scummy posts

[/iso translator]

I still want to hear from Nik and Fifi, but seriously my vote is aiming at JB.

As for jbernier93, I already mentioned that I had almost no read on him after I completed my read Yesterday, but I REALLY didn't like the wishy-washiness of his recent post #768. It just strikes me as an extremely lazy post, and I think scum would be more likely to make a lazy post like that in a potential LyLo situation than Town would. Also, the hammer from Day 1 still resounds in my head a bit too -- I might have given more slack to a Newbie for hammering like that but jbernier claimed to be an alt at some point so he's clearly not a green player.

Look, post 768 is exactly what went through my head when I read through the game again. Sorry that it's not a five page essay full of direct quotes and references to posts. Sorry that I don't directly say that I'm incredibly sure someone is scum when I really have no idea and am frankly upset with myself for being wrong this whole game and having to re-analyze like I did. But I just really can't understand how trying to get my thoughts organized and clear is scummy.

[The1fifi]

Unvote Vote jbernier

[jbernier93]

Unvote Vote jbernier

kk

vote:Wacky

[Incognito]

Fifi's vote analysis makes me feel even better about my jbernier and Nikanor suspicions -- I hadn't even noticed that they were on both end of Day wagons AND were on Seven's wagon. I don't put as much weight into the Seven-wagon one since his role hasn't flipped yet but if Seven really is Town, it seems like pretty damning evidence on both of them.

Look, post 768 is exactly what went through my head when I read through the game again. Sorry that it's not a five page essay full of direct quotes and references to posts. Sorry that I don't directly say that I'm incredibly sure someone is scum when I really have no idea and am frankly upset with myself for being wrong this whole game and having to re-analyze like I did. But I just really can't understand how trying to get my thoughts organized and clear is scummy.

This is both a major appeal to emotion and a strawman.

We're accusing you of having wishy-washy reads -- the very problem we have with your post is quite the opposite of what you're saying above; we found absolutely nothing organized OR clear about your thoughts, and I find it absolutely difficult to believe you could feel that way when we're on Day 3 and page 30 of this thread already. Your reads seem to give you the perfect amount of leeway to edge on to any kind of wagon that you want Today without fully committing yourself to a particular stance. That's extremely scummy because it would allow a hypo-you scum to slide onto any wagon that happens to form on Town Today without you having to worry about explaining yourself too much if/when you do so.

[Incognito]

Cross-posted.

Unvote Vote jbernier

kk

vote:Wacky

Why does that make you want to vote Wacky?

[The1fifi]

To ilibate wacky when he flips scum

[jbernier93]

Look, post 768 is exactly what went through my head when I read through the game again. Sorry that it's not a five page essay full of direct quotes and references to posts. Sorry that I don't directly say that I'm incredibly sure someone is scum when I really have no idea and am frankly upset with myself for being wrong this whole game and having to re-analyze like I did. But I just really can't understand how trying to get my thoughts organized and clear is scummy.

This is both a major appeal to emotion and a strawman.

We're accusing you of having wishy-washy reads -- the very problem we have with your post is quite the opposite of what you're saying above; we found absolutely nothing organized OR clear about your thoughts, and I find it absolutely difficult to believe you could feel that way when we're on Day 3 and page 30 of this thread already. Your reads seem to give you the perfect amount of leeway to edge on to any kind of wagon that you want Today without fully committing yourself to a particular stance. That's extremely scummy because it would allow a hypo-you scum to slide onto any wagon that happens to form on Town Today without you having to worry about explaining yourself too much if/when you do so.

My brain isn't processing this game correctly, because as Fifi has pointed out, I voted for both the lynch wagons d1 and d2, both on townies. So I may sound wishy-washy simply because I'm second guessing all of my thoughts on this game.

Cross-posted.

Unvote Vote jbernier

kk

vote:Wacky

Why does that make you want to vote Wacky?

Because apparently I'm about to be lynched and I want to at least make it 100% clear who I'd prefer to be lynched today. (Yes I know that's only one vote against me... but practically everyone else has expressed support for my lynch)

[camn]

I think scumteam =

jbernier93
Nikanor
jasonT1981

MAYBE Incog could be scum.. but if so I think we are f##ed, cuz I can't see myself voting him.

Final exam tomorrow.. so I am trying not to get too intense!
Will try and build cases after test.

[The1fifi]

how do you relate jason to the other 2?

[Nikanor]

SORRY FOLKS! One sec, catching up then posting.

[Wacky]

Wacky - claimed vanilla town. Seems pretty town for most of the game, but ISO posts 12, 31, and 32 are kinda iffy...

12: ... that was really iffy, in retrospect. McZombie didn't fall for my ploy, but it could just mean we were mafia buddies.

31: I try to hint to Zachrulez to not try to block Gunsmith The1fifi so we have a result today on someone. ....It didn't work. What's wrong with that?

32: What was iffy about this, sorry?

If you ISO anyone in a long enough game I'm sure you'd find some posts that are iffy, especially with someone like me who gets easily bored and starts doing random things (like 12). If you think I'm pretty town most of the game, then shouldn't you instead find someone scummy for most of the game?

It's lylo, it's too early for a vote.
I think it was pretty clear from my other post that my top suspects are wacky seven and incog, but of the three I'm not sure which I'll vote for today. Although like I said nik is vaguely scummy as well

Unvote Vote jbernier

kk

vote:Wacky

....and what's with that. Isn't it a bit early for a vote? Wait for Nikanor post, at least if you think he's scummy.

Counterbalancing my scummy posts, Zachrulez did block me Night 1, and the flavour strongly suggests Regfan crosskill (snowmen, multi shot night one, single shot night two). So at the very least, it proves I did not kill Regfan.

@The1fifi: I think you need to look beyond the votes on the lynch and see who was not voting for the lynch but still goading on for the analysis to be complete.

[Nikanor]

First thing is first: I'm just a plain ol' vanilla town member.

Now, vote analysis!

DTMaster

: (

Wacky

,

Jasper

,

Echo/camn

,

jasonT1981

,

McZombie/Incognito

,

Nikanor

,

jbernier93

)
The1fifi: (

Zachrulez

)

Regfan

: (

The1fifi

)

Jasper

: (

DTMaster

)
McZombie/Incognito: (

Regfan

)

Not Voting: (

Seven

)

Bold green is confirmed town, regular green is confirmed town from my point of view (i.e. Nikanor). Orange is for suspicious votes, blue is for good votes. fifi gets token blue for being probtown.

Are you, perhaps, scum, hoping something will stick, or at least distract everyone for a couple of Days by focusing all their attention on responding to you?

You are, aren't you? If not, would you mind then if I tried to start a bandwagon directing all the attention to you?
<snip>
Vote: DTMaster (Scumtell: Trying Too Hard)

This is Wacky's vote for DTM. Something about 'You are, aren't you,' just doesn't sit right with me. The first paragraph also requires a great leap of logic. It looks like reaching. I also find the fact that Wacky stayed on DTM for the entire day slightly suspicious; she doesn't look unsure enough.
I have Wacky as blue here because of her other posts. While her vote in itself isn't that good, the confirmvotes in particular give me a town vibe; I don't really see scum doing that to someone they know will flip town.

From what I know (which isn't much) of a normal game and from what has been said in this thread, I think DTM's "role claim" is not terribly believable. Also, he's contradicted himself when he says in (76) that he has to do the "kills/bombs/grenade thing" while in (95) he only says his "kills" are necessary.

No one else is appearing too scummy to me yet. I was initially suspicious of Fifi for the quick unvote but the act of correcting Jason in that her vote wasn't random (68) gave me some town vibes, since that particular point was used as evidence against her already. I disapprove of the quick unvotes though.

For now,
Vote: DTM

This is poor justification for the third vote on a wagon. After missing almost a week of posts, Echo really has not much to say about anything except for the leading wagon at the time, who he promptly votes for. Opportunistic and scummy.

- Third vote on a bandwagon (see 4th vote count)

It is interesting to note that Wacky finds the third vote of fifi's scummy, but doesn't say a thing about Echo's vote, despite both votes being equally bad. This indicates a possible camn+Wacky link.

I'm in the middle of a larger post, but I'm doing a full reread while writing it, so it might take some time.

This post never came.
The rest of Echo's posts are active lurking.

jason votes for DTM in his iso13. I like this vote because it looks well thought-out. Reading jason in iso, I see that jason is consistent with his stance on DTM, which I like. In iso25, jason re-addresses his thoughts on Regfan/jee, which shows more consistency (jason was voting for jee before he voted for DTM).
However, jason starts to actively lurk after he jumps on the DTM wagon, which is scummy. I have mixed feelings about jason's play on day one, but overall his vote strikes me as more townie than not.

<<Quotes Wacky's case on DTM>>
This just jumps out to me scum when it's laid out like this. And again so much has been said that I don't want to repeat anyone.
But this behaivor cannot go unnoticed and I feel like it's an appropriate move to move DTM up to L-1.

Opportunistic bandwagoning. L-1 votes should really have more reasoning to them than that. Not much else to say that hasn't been already said about McZ's play.

Yeah, so after think about it, this is a wagon I can get behind... his actions are totally illogical and scummy...
vote: DTMaster

This is jb's first vote on DTM. Awful. He also unvotes in his next post, which is not something I would expect of a person who finds another's posts 'totally illogical and scummy.'

So basically I wouldn't mind hammering DTM now, simply because his claim is just bizarre (esp. for a normal game) as is his play... so unless anyone has anything major to say re:today's lynch, I'll probably hammer soon...

Note the use of the word 'bizarre' and not 'scummy'. What's worse is that jb hammers in his next post. There are some token points about DTM in his hammer post, but nothing new. In the three posts between his unvote of DTM and hammer of DTM, jb provides no new content and just restates old points. These three posts also span five days, so he was lurking during that time, too. Scummy.

Seven gets the orange text for not voting because he doesn't vote for the entirety of day one, which I find mildly scummy. Most of his day one posts also strike me as those of an active lurker.

---

I'm going to post more stuff tomorrow. It's two in the morning and I want to sleep.

[The1fifi]

Well, from Nik's last post, i can't figure out if you are scum or not. But i can figure out that my vote is in the right place.

[jbernier93]

Wacky - claimed vanilla town. Seems pretty town for most of the game, but ISO posts 12, 31, and 32 are kinda iffy...

12: ... that was really iffy, in retrospect. McZombie didn't fall for my ploy, but it could just mean we were mafia buddies.

31: I try to hint to Zachrulez to not try to block Gunsmith The1fifi so we have a result today on someone. ....It didn't work. What's wrong with that?

32: What was iffy about this, sorry?

If you ISO anyone in a long enough game I'm sure you'd find some posts that are iffy, especially with someone like me who gets easily bored and starts doing random things (like 12). If you think I'm pretty town most of the game, then shouldn't you instead find someone scummy for most of the game?

31 and 32 are both junk posts which IMO do not sound like things a townie would say. We know when its twilight and we know when its lynch or lose.
Actually, I've thought pretty much all of the players who are in right now have been town for most of the game. And obviously this isn't true.

It's lylo, it's too early for a vote.
I think it was pretty clear from my other post that my top suspects are wacky seven and incog, but of the three I'm not sure which I'll vote for today. Although like I said nik is vaguely scummy as well

Unvote Vote jbernier

kk

vote:Wacky

....and what's with that. Isn't it a bit early for a vote? Wait for Nikanor post, at least if you think he's scummy. [/quote]
Well, if fifi doesn't think its too early then I don't. :/
[/quote]

Yeah, so after think about it, this is a wagon I can get behind... his actions are totally illogical and scummy...
vote: DTMaster

This is jb's first vote on DTM. Awful. He also unvotes in his next post, which is not something I would expect of a person who finds another's posts 'totally illogical and scummy.'

Right. My unvote was equally illogical, but my gut told me to and I listened.

So basically I wouldn't mind hammering DTM now, simply because his claim is just bizarre (esp. for a normal game) as is his play... so unless anyone has anything major to say re:today's lynch, I'll probably hammer soon...

Note the use of the word 'bizarre' and not 'scummy'. What's worse is that jb hammers in his next post. There are some token points about DTM in his hammer post, but nothing new. In the three posts between his unvote of DTM and hammer of DTM, jb provides no new content and just restates old points. These three posts also span five days, so he was lurking during that time, too. Scummy.

This part makes me angry because its blatant misrepresentation.
Between and including the first post you quoted and my hammer, I made five posts. Those posts were made, in order, on friday, saturday, monday, tuesday, and thursday. I didn't realize not posting every single day was considered lurking.
Seven gets the orange text for not voting because he doesn't vote for the entirety of day one, which I find mildly scummy. Most of his day one posts also strike me as those of an active lurker.

---

I'm going to post more stuff tomorrow. It's two in the morning and I want to sleep.[/quote]

[The1fifi]

Day 1 jbernier posts:

Anywho, unvote because DTM's latest posts are just screaming town in my mind, for whatever reason...

Day 2 jbernier posts :

My unvote of DTM was dumb, because after I was like "...crap he still looks scummy, why the hell did I unvote him?!?!"

Not sure what can be concluded from this. Just wanted to share. I am doing an ISo on JB, and i can't decided between a really misguided town or scum..

[jbernier93]

woah, totally messed up the quotes on that last post :/ The last part (from nikanors ppost) shouldn't be there

[Wacky]

31 and 32 are both junk posts which IMO do not sound like things a townie would say. We know when its twilight and we know when its lynch or lose.
Actually, I've thought pretty much all of the players who are in right now have been town for most of the game. And obviously this isn't true.

Okay, that twilight thing was just me not having anything to say until Jasper flips. And I'm not totally sure people really know it's lynch or lose, certain people seem to be throwing around those votes anyway. Is a few junk posts really that scummy when you've been making a few yourself?

@The1fifi and jbernier:

Perhaps it's WIFOM, but I'm not sure if jbernier is the best choice because the DTM hammer seems too attention grabbing, and I seem to get lazy and lost vanilla town vibes from him rather than scum vibes.

[Sotty7]

2nd vote count of day three

jbernier93 1: (The1fifi)

Wacky 1: (jbernier93)

Not Voting 6:

Wacky, Seven, Nikanor, Incognito, Camn, jasonT1981

-With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch
-Deadline is 3/26 @ 9am CST