Mini 918 - A Hot, Steaming Bowl of Mafia - Game Over!

[Locke Lamora]

Which lynch do you think won't lead to an easy scum win? Bio's?

[charter]

Well yeah, either Bio or you. Bio's hammer was so grossly anti town, and his reasons for doing it were so scummy, he's pretty clearly scum.

The other person I'd lynch is you. The more I think about it, the more you look like scum to me.

You're all over RC day one instead of MIC, and RC probably isn't scum, but you give this shady reasons for not voting MIC, but still being suspicious of him, something like "MIC already has attention on him". Then, right before deadline, you pile on to Hoopla over MIC. Then you really don't say anything day two. Then your first post today was scummy as hell, now that I think about it. Besides the waiting with bated breath, you also come straight out the gate accusing those that were suspicious of Shotty as being scum, which you've made sure you're not a part of. That night kill was a really obvious frame, I missed it since I've been trying to explain my thinking behind my role.

You're just pouncing on me now because you see this really great opportunity and you know the town won't fault you for voting me. I'm just an easy mislynch.

[RedCoyote]

charter, I take it you feel fairly comfortable with Zach then?

[charter]

Not at all, but if it's a pick between Bio or Zach, Bio is scummier. If it's between Zach or Locke, I dunno. It'd probably boil down to how paranoid I am at the time or what theory is currently running through my head. Like before I made that last post, it would have been Zach, but then I got to thinking if the whole scum team tried chronic lurking, and it just seems too coincidental, and I found legitimate concerns about Locke.

Right now I am trying to figure it out for sure because I'm sure I'm going to be lynched, and then we can't just lynch those three to get the last two scum. We have to do it the hard way and figure out which are scum and only lynch them rather than the easy way of just lynch Bio, Zach, and Locke and bask in the glory.

[d3x]

My suggestion is to start with a lurker lynch.

I'm currently leaning on Zach due to meta. In our first game together, he was rather lurky and would pop in to say things on occasion. In our 2nd game together, he was a Town PR and he was very active.[/url]

[RedCoyote]

I don't know. Maybe I'm flying by the seat of my pants here, but I don't see scumLocke. I haven't at any point in this game. I've said it before that I understand the logic, the case that could be made against him, but I do not feel it at all.

I will keep reading and posting, but I'm also going to

Vote: Bio Hazard

in accordance with my plan. I say it's worth the risk, and nuts to the evidence against charter. That said, I can't sincerely argue against a charter lynch. I mean, the evidence is right there, and I was never a big towncharter guy this game. Still, I just can't overlook these lurkers. I am unshakably confident that one of them is scum.

Preview Edit: d3x, I would also support voting Zach, but I am going to make my move now.

[d3x]

@RC- If we lynch one of these lurker fools and they flip Scum, do you still want charter to 'Vig' the other? Obviously you want the 'Vig' on the other if they flip Town.

[Locke Lamora]

Charter: you're paranoid about the lurkers, so maybe you'll understand this. I'm paranoid that someone who has been tracked to a kill, claimed a currently unverifiable PR, and whose choice of actions don't really make sense to me, is going to get to live.

Let's assume you're town and we lynch BH, for instance. If we lynched scum, I would breathe a bit easier. You could use your vig safely and either take out scum altogether or with that confirmed, we'd have at least one of you or CC in a 3-1 scenario tomorrow. If we lynch town, however, it's a whole different story. You then have to decide whether to use your vig or not: if you do, we could lose; if you don't, you'd have to cop and scum would either kill you or we'd be having this argument all over again tomorrow. I'm already debating whether to trust you - I certainly don't want to have to assess your investigation in LyLo. My other difficulty with this is that you're probably leaning towards vigging me if you are telling the truth, which is definitely going to lose us the game if BH is town.

Perhaps my assumptions are wrong, though. Would you vig me (or anyone) if our lynch flipped town?

[Col.Cathart]

You then have to decide whether to use your vig or not: if you do, we could lose; if you don't, you'd have to cop and scum would either kill you or we'd be having this argument all over again tomorrow.

Exactly. That's the main reason, I'm still for charter lynch. Except the 2 deaths on the following night, we have absolutely no proof what so ever, that charter really is JOAT, and every next day will be as confusing as this one. I would rather have a clear ground to stand on during the late game (not to mention I STILL predict scum flip from him), rather than anoying questions in my head like 'is he really telling the truth?' etc.

Also... I don't like this Lynch All Lurkers business here. I mean, sure... They definitely ARE lurking and stuff, and I have no proof that would say anything too town about them... But my gut just tells me it's not a good idea. This is very easy way for active scum to set up 2 easy mislynches for the win. The way people behaved during D2 twilight toward Bio and other stuff... Ok, that could be genuine anger and 'ROAR! He's scum!' behavior, but I cannot shake off feeling that someone is just setting up an easy mislynch.

To conclude, I still approve charter lynch. I disapprove any of the lurkers lynch for now, and I don't think it's going to change unless it'll be close to deadline and no one else will go for charter.

[Bio Hazard]

I know it seems like the general consensus that I'm obvscum for hammering yesterday, but could someone please explain why scum would do what I did yesterday? I'll admit that in hindsight, it wasn't a good move on my part, but just think about the situation yesterday. Hoopla already fake claimed, and then followed CC's counterclaim with a lot of theatrics (which I saw at the time as faked), and it didn't help her case that she killed a townie on the MOI wagon on page 2.

And to all those people out there saying "But BH, why would the mafia get 2 kills!!!!1111???," I ask "What happened to the whole 'Don't outguess the mod' thing?" Also, consider a situation where the NKs aren't caused by the mafia.

I saw Hoopla as an immediate threat to the town that could possibly cause more damage if I didn't hammer. And yes, I was driven a little by the fact that she threatened to shoot me before I even said anything. People want to shout "Self preservation is an absolute scumtell!!" but neither town nor scum want to die. And if I was scum, why would I admit this?

[Bio Hazard]

...I want to hear why he picked charter out for the bus

Well, the other people who were late on the MIC flipped town.

...like MIC sticking his neck out to defend RC

Is RC confirmed scum?

[Locke Lamora]

BH: perhaps you don't consider it a bus if it's an early vote, but I again direct you to d3x's vote. It went on MIC early when there was little pressure and I think removing it later when the MIC wagon had built would have been as risky as charter bussing if he's scum. As for RC, that's not what I meant at all. I was referring to RC's D1 comments when he said that he didn't think MIC would have stuck his neck out to defend him when there was a group of us attacking RC in the manner that we were. Clearly, MIC was scum and he did it anyway. Similarly, anyone's first instinct on seeing your hammer would be to think 'there's no way scum would be that obvious'. It's therefore worth scum hammering in that situation to generate that WIFOM and make people think about whether it's too blatant a move.

[Zachrulez]

I have to say d3x that using meta to push for my lynch is pretty weak. Your meta read consists of only two games that you've actually played with me and doesn't take into account the at least 20-30 games I've played over my life in mafia scum. In rebuttal to your meta arguments, I would suggest reading newbie 846. The truth of it is that my play has been pretty lurky in general across the site. (I think I'm playing 3-4 games right now with roughly the same activity level.) I'm pretty burned out, and I'm planning to take a break once my current games are completed... or at the very least, greatly reducing my game load.

Anyway yeah, with that said, I prefer lynching Charter today. After what happened yesterday, I'm not in a rush to put him at lynch -1 though. I'm not really liking his tunneling of Shotty in hindsight, nor the fact that the actions he claims to have used with his claim happen to be pretty weak vs the alternatives of what he could have done, and also happen to not provide the town with any real information.

My 2nd preference would be Bio. That quick hammer still doesn't sit well with me. His early posts to start off the day seemed pretty reasonable. His latest defence is WIFOM. Overall, none of it really moves me that much. The only doubts I have of him being scum would be his general experience level, the mistakes could just be newbie play.

3rd preference would be Locke. His lack of voting patterns don't really inspire me. Looking at his play overall, he hasn't really stood out to me until recently with Charter's claim situation either, and I have to wonder if it's by design. Out of sight our of mind afterall. His overall play just doesn't feel very proactive to me.

With all that said, I'm gonna

FOS

charter for now, but I hold off turning that into a vote until the town is satisfied with the discussion for the day so that an opportunity for another quick hammer isn't opened up.

[Bio Hazard]

Oh please, stop with the WIFOM. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Similarly, anyone's first instinct on seeing your hammer would be to think 'there's no way scum would be that obvious'.

Really?

WOW, that was soooo scummy. You didn't want to use my day-kill? Even if I vigged myself, that is far better than a lynch.

That was even worse than my play! I think Bio Hazard did this because he knew I was going to take a shot at him. Nice play!

Are you serious?

You're not even going to see if she shoots or not?

I am very much going to be down BH & Zach's necks tomorrow, but much more on BH.

What the freaking hell is going on here?

Pre-emptive Vote:Bio. You can count on that shit.

^None of these quotes back up that assertion.

It went on MIC early when there was little pressure and I think removing it later when the MIC wagon had built would have been as risky as charter bussing if he's scum

What happened to your shoot down of the "there's no way scum would be that obvious" defense?

[charter]

Charter: you're paranoid about the lurkers, so maybe you'll understand this. I'm paranoid that someone who has been tracked to a kill, claimed a currently unverifiable PR, and whose choice of actions don't really make sense to me, is going to get to live.

It is verifiable.

Perhaps my assumptions are wrong, though. Would you vig me (or anyone) if our lynch flipped town?

I thought we agreed not to, so no, I wouldn't.

Ugh, Cathart, what have I done that is

scummy

? I don't get why you're so gung ho to lynch me.

[d3x]

using meta to push for my lynch is pretty weak

I agree wholeheartedly! Especially incomplete meta. However, whatever it takes to get you active in this game to give us some help, I'll do. I cannot read someone who isn't posting and I'm about 75% convinced that one of our 2 lurkers is Scum.

His early posts to start off the day seemed pretty reasonable.

Which Day are you refering to? Today? Or his entrance yesterday?

@Bio- What do you think your greatest contribution to this game has been in terms of Scum-hunting? Also, are you planning on doing any in the near future?

[Zachrulez]

His early posts to start off the day seemed pretty reasonable.

Which Day are you refering to? Today? Or his entrance yesterday

Today.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, I give in.

I won't be the only hold out for this lurker thing, and we can deal with it tomorrow.

Are we mostly agreed then on charter then?

Unvote; vote: charter

[charter]

Alright, good luck then. I hope for you all's sake Bio and Zach are scum.

[Bio Hazard]

That wasn't the hammer.

Ugh, Cathart, what have I done that is scummy? I don't get why you're so gung ho to lynch me.

I'll answer this in my next post.

[d3x]

I'm down for the Hammer on charter {due in part to the liability of having him in end game, the unverified and suspicious claim, and the tracking result}, but I'd like to hear back from others before I do.

The reason I'm asking for this is, we still have 10 days until deadline. I really don't like killing the rest of our day so early, but conversation has been slowly stalling out over the last few days and I think a lynch needs to happen.

[Bio Hazard]

Ugh, Cathart, what have I done that is scummy? I don't get why you're so gung ho to lynch me.

You tunneled on shotty Day 1 and then jumped over to the MIC wagon at the last second when you couldn't get anything going on the shotty wagon. That seems like bussing.

My motivation for blocking Shotty is because I thought he was scum. I didn't vig him because I'm saving that until endgame where it's more powerful.

This doesn't make sense to me, it seems like the ability to stop a kill would be just as, if not more, powerful at the endgame. Plus a roleblock serves a dual purpose of investigating/protecting.

At the risk of looking like I'm OMGUSing, I'll also point out how "gung ho" is is about my lynch when he really doesn't say anything about me besides "Bio's hammer was so grossly anti town, and his reasons for doing it were so scummy."

[sigma]

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

The deadline is March 16th at 7:00 AM (EST)

Vote Count:

Col.Cathart ( 0 )
d3x ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
charter ( 3 ) Col.Cathart, Locke Lamora, RedCoyote
Bio Hazard ( 0 )
Zachrulez ( 1 ) d3x
Locke Lamora ( 0 )
No Vote ( 3 ) Zachrulez, charter, Bio Hazard

[Col.Cathart]

Sorry people, busy weekend. I'll post something tomorrow, after I'll get some sleep, I promise.

[RedCoyote]

I don't really have anything else to contribute. It looks like charter is resigned to his fate. I guess the Colonel still wants to say something here, so I would wait on that.