Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Ojanen]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 0 )
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 1 ) spyrex
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 0 )
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 9 ) gayle ojanen starbuck CSL evilsnail fishythefish Ellibereth Haylen mykonian
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

/'slayer

[Ojanen]

@Starbuck: D1 lasted until about page 40 so you don't have exceedingly much to catch up, D2 featured a lynch on scum-pops and D3 a quickish lynch on town-Hoopla so both at least relatively interesting.

@Spyrex: When clearing people based on scumflips, note from which universe they are, the 2 scumgroups are separate. Haylen and Elli (and now Starbuck) are from the other universe so would be in other scumgroup. I find Haylen scummy and Elli not so much, but you can't clear Elli based on pops flip.

[Ojanen]

I had a bit of time to look at this in the night, but I need more isoing before I lay down my vote.
The remaining U1 scum (not paying mind the possibility of teleported scum in Rhinox/Plum right now) should be in CSL/Spyrex/myko/evilsnail. (I will naggingly look at Fishy once more, but that would mean really considerable bussing.)
Of this bunch, pops had a mild positive opinion of all except CSL (well he turned round to state suspicion of evilsnail right in the end, but otherwise Raskol a.k.a Spyrex was "cranky town", evilsnail case was "meh", myko was pretty townish and "another victim of the girls' club").

Pops wanted to policy lynch CSL, and I have been wavering on what this means. Currently I actually still find him scummy. The things that worry me: the reason he was originally using for policy lynch argument was bad (posting brief posts for the entirety of games) and he could have used a much more incriminating (good-looking) reasoning against CSL, like calling CSL out for apparent lying about finding the slip independently on D1 etc.
Second thing, CSL, who is known for his awful bandwagoning, delays putting down a vote D2 for a long time, not even to save himself when him and pops are the wagons. And CSL is very hard to read but this could be a super clumsy attempt at incriminating Rhinox. (he still had not layed down his vote on pops/anyone this time, btw)

/ghost slay

Also, from the looks of it, the majority is saying pops is scum. Rhinox said pops is town.

Odd..

Spyrex: What meta knowledge of him in your possesion do you think myko references?

I remember some people putting CSL down as town, could they refresh my memory on the reasoning?

[Ojanen]

I would find it unusual if neither of pops' scumbuddies bussed pre-claim, it took a long time to form, the wagon. Especially with daytalking scum.

popsofctown

( 7 )

gayle

elvis_knits

fishythefish

Ellibereth

farside22

CSL

Hoopla

Ellibereth is from the other universe, and I'll eat my hat if Gayle is scum. Leaves CSL and Fishy as only possible bussers.

[SpyreX]

Time to bite into this a bit more:

@Spyrex: When clearing people based on scumflips, note from which universe they are, the 2 scumgroups are separate. Haylen and Elli (and now Starbuck) are from the other universe so would be in other scumgroup. I find Haylen scummy and Elli not so much, but you can't clear Elli based on pops flip.

Personally Elli being town is a gut read but this brings up a larger point that we need to be clear on:

Elli, Haylen and Starbuck

can not

be the scum from our game. One of them, because I don't like having three, should be teleported back. The others are absolutely off-limits for lynches until our scum are killed (or, we push close to the end, etc). In essence, regardless of their actual alignments as far as I'm concerned they'll be playing like town at this juncture (which, is going to get me to a point later, promise)

Which, ultimately, makes me a little wroth that we've been pushing scummy players out versus lynching them and working together to strengthen the towns but thats a discussion for after game.

So, at this moment I'm concerned with finding the 2 scum in the grouping of:

CSL, Evil, Fish, Gayle, Myko, Ojanen, Plum, Rhinox.

Plum and Rhinox can't be dealt with directly (and both would be a little fishy this game).

Fish and Gayle give me solid good vibes. Ojanen to a degree as well.

So, I'm looking intently today at CSL, Evil, Myko.

@CSL: WHY, very specifically, did you want to "live to night 1".
@Evil: I want gut. 3 suspects. 1 line on why.

And then we get to Mykonian (with a sideways start):

Spyrex: What meta knowledge of him in your possesion do you think myko references?

I remember some people putting CSL down as town, could they refresh my memory on the reasoning?

Simply the fact I've played with him a few times. HOWEVER, asking me for anything meta related is like covering yourself in steaks and begging the lion to not eat you.

Just not gonna happen.

That said, I had issues with Myko early on that had nothing to do with the slapfight with DGB OR the questioning line (which I still think is more smoke than anything else but).

My issues started with this:

@ the other universe. Jack is trying to be smart and manipulative.

Town doesn't manipulate. Jack is scum.

At heart, I like this statement *shock*. Clear, concise, with a strong opinion.

Compare that to what was happening in

this game

.

Then look back to what I said before: ultimately, scum in this universe are (especially at early game before too much bad teleporting happens) in essence town in the other.

What could cause that kind of dichotomy? Being scum.

Really, anything else is going to be padding (and there is more, including a couple slips that feel a lot more like slips than Hoopla's business) so I'm laying this out.

That stuck the scum chord and the rest of the play has just been singing the chorus.

[mykonian]

uhm, spyrex, your case is that my posts towards the other universe are short, and those about my own are long?

The same argument, made in a place I knew I had influence, would have been explained, with a quote, and show why it was manipulation. But for communication with the other town this just won't work, and is not really worth it and might even be dangerous, because you reduce the point to two words "manipulative scum". Strong, but it is just calling names. Ideal for giving someone a direction, or as scum, trying to get someone lynched, but not ideal for actual scumhunting.

[SpyreX]

...

No. It has very little to do with the length and everything to do with the tone and consistency.

That short paragraph laid out a clearer opinion than your day 1 in this game. Especially up to that point. In contrast, this game was exceptionally long and meandering and, ultimately, filled with more than a chunk of white noise.

I'm not sure how you could think that anything I had to say about that was a function of the LENGTH.

[CSL]

@ SpyreX: I rarely ever get to live to Day 2 as town. Trust me, if I'm scum, I would be a lot more interested in this game.

[SpyreX]

Those statements make me hella paranoid and I dont like being paranoid.

[Ellibereth]

@ SpyreX: I rarely ever get to live to Day 2 as town. Trust me, if I'm scum, I would be a lot more interested in this game.

Wait what. You rarely live long as townie. If you're townie now, you've lived quite long. Why wouln't you be interested? :/
Would not be suprised at all if pops was bussing CSL. He's so extremely bussable.

[SpyreX]

I just don't get it.

I also don't know what to do about it - I get those classic scum vibes off Myko but I get a fat case of is this an elaborate VI from CSL.

NORMALLY I'd say ship one off to the far reaches. But, with three in here already I'm paranoid about more of THEM too.

[mykonian]

...

No. It has very little to do with the length and everything to do with the tone and consistency.

That short paragraph laid out a clearer opinion than your day 1 in this game. Especially up to that point. In contrast, this game was exceptionally long and meandering and, ultimately, filled with more than a chunk of white noise.

I'm not sure how you could think that anything I had to say about that was a function of the LENGTH.

uhm, sorry? The next part is clearly about intonation. How what the purpose, and who the audiance is affects how you say things.

And are you accusing me of active lurking, hiding behind theory, wishywashyness or anything like that?

[Ojanen]

O powerful wizard and hater of meta, have you played with CSL before?

[Fishythefish]

A reread of people:
In no particular order:
- Gayle's town. He'd be looking pretty good without going all out for pops for a long time; with that, he's practically clear.
- CSL's town. I don't think pops's play is likely bussing. Exception: if evilsnail

and

CSL were scum, pops's "policy lynch" hop on CSL would make sense again. Also, while "if I was scum, I'd be more interested" is craplogic, it's also the kind of thing town post much more than scum, in my experience.
- myko's town. I've got a whopping gut read here, which I'll try to explain some time.
- Ojanen is a tricky read. There's not too much there. She doesn't commit to a stance on the pops lynch - but I understand that; I certainly wouldn't says pops was obvscum. The easiest things to judge in mafia are well-fleshed out reads on me; and Ojanen's is convincing. I've not been properly up to speed for large sections of the game, and my play has been less than brilliant. I can well believe her conflict about my alignment; which makes me lean to Ojtown - but jury is very much out here.
- I think snail is quite likely scum. He was under-the-radar day 1 (as discussed earlier). There are decent pops-snail links. There are some posts of his I get townreads off, but I'm inclined to say my gut is wrong on those. I need to revisit those posts. It's also notable that he's the only likely busser on the pops wagon.
- Raskol/Spyrex; I get some scummy vibes from his early theory posts, particularly the rather unthinking line of "we're all in it together! Don't screw U2 up!" - which wasn't really relevant, and could lead to scum here being kept together. This may be just because I think they're wrong, but I don't think so. I need to reread the rest of his play.
- All the U2 players are town/U2 scum. For the moment, it's relatively unimportant which.

So, my starting point for today is suspicions on evilsnail, and worries about Spyrex, with a need to reread a bit on both. I also need to think about how the Hoopla wagon went - although I'm not overly optimistic about the information content of that.

Some scumhunting irrelevant stuff;
Day 1 wasn't completely useless, and is worth a read at some stage. But anyone replacing/teleporting in would do well to concentrate on days 2-3 first; you'll get much more value per hour.
Tonight our teleporter might want to consider kicking off Operation: Back Where They Belong. Certainly if we lynch scum, and probably even if we don't.

vote: evilsnail

[mykonian]

I would find it unusual if neither of pops' scumbuddies bussed pre-claim, it took a long time to form, the wagon. Especially with daytalking scum.

popsofctown

( 7 )

gayle

elvis_knits

fishythefish

Ellibereth

farside22

CSL

Hoopla

Ellibereth is from the other universe, and I'll eat my hat if Gayle is scum. Leaves CSL and Fishy as only possible bussers.

When vote analysis leaves so little possible scum, you may want to rethink your assumptions. CSL is quite out of the question (elli, why would anyone go on for page after page how his scumbuddy should be lynched, while it is totally possible that it happens?) and I don't think fishy scum. You might want to ask: did scum bus? And if they did, didn't they do it when Pops was the certain lynch (the second time)? The longer it forms, the less likely everybody wanted to be on the wagon. Meaning scum maybe wanted to stay off.

A counterargument is that the counterwagon (CSL) quickly died. So scum didn't have any real alternative then either stay on their previous target, or bus pops.

vote spyrex

and this is lame, I know, but it is based on Raskols play. I expect not to get a lot of new stuff here, as the spyrex I know is pretty good at making logically good points. Catching him on irrelevant fears and badly reasoned votes like Raskol won't happen.

[SpyreX]

uhm, sorry? The next part is clearly about intonation. How what the purpose, and who the audiance is affects how you say things.

If that is the case, and you understood what I'm saying then:

uhm, spyrex, your case is that my posts towards the other universe are short, and those about my own are long?

Is more than a little disingenuous. Enough that I want explained the dictomy of "I was addressing your case in detail." versus "Your case is that my posts are short."

And are you accusing me of active lurking, hiding behind theory, wishywashyness or anything like that?

I'm "accusing" you of having a dissonance in your approach to these universes that doesn't mesh as a town player. I'm "accusing" you of having a LOT of white noise in this universe. I'm "accusing" you of, while not wishy washy, being tenative with most of your pushes in this game. (Yes, I haven't went into detail on the latter two yet but I can tell we will get there).

And, this is an even better one:

vote spyrex and this is lame, I know, but it is based on Raskols play. I expect not to get a lot of new stuff here,

as the spyrex I know is pretty good at making logically good points.

Catching him on irrelevant fears and badly reasoned votes like Raskol won't happen.

Why, thank you. Although, that does beg a few questions:

1.) If this is a "sins of the father" kinda thing, why was your initial post of today focused on the Hoopla wagon (which my predecessor was NOT on) and my name not even mentioned?
2.) If you thought I was scum - why was your response to my quick vote so neutral and curious to what I was going to say?
--- If you were curious about what I was going to say, why is your vote based on Raskols play?

I'd really love me some answers to those.

And:

O powerful wizard and hater of meta, have you played with CSL before?

I have. A few times.

One of the more concerning things THIS game is the weird relationship between Mykonian and CSL. I don't know what to make of that at all.

[zorastermod]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 1 ) fishythefish
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 1 ) spyrex
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 1 ) mykonian
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 7 ) gayle ojanen starbuck CSL evilsnail Ellibereth Haylen
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

[mykonian]

if you read my response, I was saying that there was little to get from Hoopla's lynch. That the hammer was too quick, but I don't consider it scummy.

For the second, it is wrong to attack someone before he posts a promised case, it is better to wait for it. Then, the point itself is logical, attacking you because it is bad (though untrue), is again wrong, all I should do, is show everyone why it is wrong. (the difference is in the goal I have with it, and how much I'm listened to). I have somewhat the feeling I won't convince you, since you immediately went for my generalization which started the post.

I should reread The raskol case is old. Evil is still interesting, but his admitting his scummy things makes me worry. I still have a no-read on Ojanen.

[evilsnail]

@Evil: I want gut. 3 suspects. 1 line on why.

Fishy: his pops vote looked like a bus, regardless of the fact that it steered attention away from my wagon. And he was late to the ABR wagon, which seems to mostly have been town-driven.
To be honest, Raskol, gayle, myko, ojanen, CSL all seem town to me. Making me think the last scum is either Plum or Rhinox.

Of the U2 players: Elli seems town to me, Haylen scummy. Don't have a real reason for this other than gut. Dunno about Starbuck yet.

[Ellibereth]

Ignoringus U-2'ers.

TOWN
Oj
Myko
Gayle
Spyrex

PEOPLE LEFT
CSL
evilsnail
Fishythefish

I dunno where people are getting CSLtown. My current way of attempting to reading him is active, aggresive, crazythingsoutofnowhere is CSLtown. While lurking, quiet, continuous catchup is CSLscum. And he would be one of the most bussable scum players ever.

[SpyreX]

Of CSL and Fishy I'd put more weight on CSL being scum. Especially with that wagon analysis.

Its just so hard to push that lynch at this point though.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: CSL

[Ojanen]

When vote analysis leaves so little possible scum, you may want to rethink your assumptions. CSL is quite out of the question (elli, why would anyone go on for page after page how his scumbuddy should be lynched, while it is totally possible that it happens?) and I don't think fishy scum. You might want to ask: did scum bus? And if they did, didn't they do it when Pops was the certain lynch (the second time)? The longer it forms, the less likely everybody wanted to be on the wagon. Meaning scum maybe wanted to stay off.

Your first sentence is craplogic, getting a clear result in itself in no straightforward way implies assumptions should be rethought.
The second wagon was after the counterclaim, pops was all but confirmed scum and any town or scum would have equally just voted him, that is not even bussing anymore in the meaningful sense of the word. If someone was bussing in the hopes of towncred, it happened on the way leading up to claim.
So I do take note of that wagon.
myko, what is making you vote Spyrex over evilsnail, who you wanted to lynch yesterday?

[Ojanen]

Oh oops, missed previous myko post.
myko, can you give specific post numbers/snippets to what gives you pause about evilsnail?

[CSL]

Ellibereth, given that you have voted me in every game you and I have been on, I'm just going to say that your vote is based on policy.

Well, going to ISO evilsnail.