Newbie 920: Mafia in Newbietown (Game over! Town wins!)

[McGriddle]

Ugh. I'm not seeing it.

Not seeing Netos

'claim'

?

[Zachrulez]

14th vote count of day 1:

Carl Sagan - 3 (Mcgriddle, Unsight, Netopalis)
Ythan - 2 (Julano, mariomaster777)
Netopalis - 1 (Carl Sagan)
Mcgriddle - 1 (Ythan)

Not voting (FluffyGiggles, Fiyr)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

DL is March 16 at 9am central.

[Netopalis]

Hello, everybody, welcome to the game! I'm Netopalis, your IC for this game. As your IC, my primary role is to teach you all how to play the game and answer any questions. As per the site rules, as an IC, I cannot lie about my position on basic game theory issues, such as WIFOM, claiming or similar ideas.

However, if I am in the mafia, I will be playing to win.

I should also warn you all that I have an extremely unusual playstyle as compared to most of my fellow members of this site - My play is based strongly on solid, logical arguments as opposed to gut feelings and emotions. If you want to persuade me, give me good reasons to follow you, not just that you have a "bad feeling" about someone.

I'll be posting some questions for everybody within a few hours, as well as a quick "How to play Mafia" guide that I'm working on. I'm looking forward to playing with each of you!

The bolded portion of my first post is what Sagan seems to be rambling about.

[Ythan]

I saw a

'claim'

but no claim.

Is Carl seriously going to be in character all game?

[McGriddle]

I saw a

'claim'

but no claim.

Is Carl seriously going to be in character all game?

Unless he hopefully gets lynched

[Ythan]

Is this you trying to shake off my vote?

[Julano]

Julano
1 Not posting five hours into the game is not scummy. Also three other players hadn't posted yet either. He didn't post much after either, culminating in my replacing him, but this is not uncommon in newbie games for players of any alignment.
8 Why did you ask this specific player A about this specific player B?

Thanks for joining the game.

Unvote

, since you're talking. By '1' and '8', what are you referring to?

Not really sure what to say right now.

Why not? Do you have any questions or comments on either of the people analysis (one of which

you

requested)?

"E) If someone doesn't answer a question, does that make them scum, scummy, or just annoying?"

"E. Yes"

Ummm......~.~ very helpful....

Any comment towards this?

The quote is of an answer to one of the original questions. No, I'm not going to respond to that. The analysis I wanted in order to compare against my own. Suffice to say that both you and Mario are closer to the town side because of them.


This day is dragging. The people I still haven't placed are McGriddle, Netopalis and Ythan.

[Ythan]

Look at the bottom of the page where it says "Display posts from previous:"

Select a player and you can look at all of their posts. That's the numbering I use most often.

[Fiyr]

You couldn't point out my lack of activity because you were trying to find a method of telling when a person is tunnelling? I don't get it.

Sorry, I didn't really explain myself there -.-;
At first I had some suspicions about tunneling and I was going to point this out along with your lack of posts but first I wanted check how much it takes to see if someone is tunneling. Needless to say I ended up posting nothing about it.

In fact, looking back shows that in post 280 (according to the print mode, it could show differently in the thread), you did indeed feel comfortable enough to say it straight out.

wait,... what?

I am sorry about how jumbled and disorganised my last post was, but please try and respond to every point directed towards you! Thanks!

This is not very good so don't get your hopes up.

This is my post your referring to, correct?
So, what are you talking about?

Annoying apparently. I pretty much respond to every single little thing I find questionable in any way and it tends to inflate my postcount to a degree some players find unbearable.

Sounds like a good thing to me, I'm glad you have come!

Seriously, I haven't needed to reply because there is no defense to this statistical fact. As a moral absolutist in defense of town, ignoring the evidence goes beyond ignorance and speaks to your character. I moved forward my vote and stand by it because to even consider an argument without evidence (as is the case with EVERY other argument possible in a first turn MafiaScum game) is unneeded. I am troubled by those moved here from other towns, who are so bloodthirsty for the moral ambiguity of random speculation that they attack me, off the watermelon wagon, first time in town, because I demand rigor in the application of logic to our situation.

Why in the world should I vote with you if you won't bother answering a couple non-attack questions!?

ignorance, cronyism and sycophants rally to defend a faux-pas,

I think I'm simply going to pretend you aren't totally insulting anyone...

The quote is of an answer to one of the original questions. No, I'm not going to respond to that. The analysis I wanted in order to compare against my own. Suffice to say that both you and Mario are closer to the town side because of them.

...Fine then. Yes. I'm here to be analyzed, not analyze. Wonderful.

I'm feeling slightly ill, and angry, so I will be gone for a day or so.

[Fiyr]

Before I go though,

vote:Julano

I will post my case when I return.

[Unsight]

I'm feeling slightly ill, and angry, so I will be gone for a day or so.

*hugs*

Get well soon. ^_^


PS: Netopalis still didn't answer those questions.

[Unsight]

Is this you trying to shake off my vote?

Wouldn't it be a null tell either way?

[Unsight]

Is Carl seriously going to be in character all game?

Actually, he's not really "in character."

The real Carl Sagan would have realized the need for better evidence as one of the few quotes of his I know is "Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence" (or it was something like that).

I think our Carl Sagan is deliberately trying to be unhelpful and mislead people. Using an act to cover up scummy behavior makes it no less scummy.

[Netopalis]

I wouldn't have had to defend myself so often if Sagan hadn't made so many stupid and ridiculous attacks.

As for "digging for what I want", the problem is that I'm still not entirely sure where to dig just yet. Pushing Sagan seems to keep getting the same crap about "energy", Legions isn't present and Julano is a light suspect at best. McGriddle...I'm having trouble reading. I suppose I probably should have pressed Griddle more - I didn't because I was pressing him somewhere else and I was worried about tunneling based on playstyle rather than alignment. I'll reread him in isolation, though, and put together a post.

This was my answer. Is there anything that you don't feel that I answered?

[Unsight]

I wouldn't have had to defend myself so often if Sagan hadn't made so many stupid and ridiculous attacks.

As for "digging for what I want", the problem is that I'm still not entirely sure where to dig just yet. Pushing Sagan seems to keep getting the same crap about "energy", Legions isn't present and Julano is a light suspect at best. McGriddle...I'm having trouble reading. I suppose I probably should have pressed Griddle more - I didn't because I was pressing him somewhere else and I was worried about tunneling based on playstyle rather than alignment. I'll reread him in isolation, though, and put together a post.

This was my answer. Is there anything that you don't feel that I answered?

Go read post 342. In fact, go read the last few pages. If you missed mine then you probably missed others.

[Netopalis]

Unisght: Sorry about that. Yeah, I missed it. At any rate....

There's no really good way to define exactly what constitutes a "strong suspect". Justice Potter Stewart, when asked to define pornography, famously said, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." That's kinda the way it is with lynch candidates. We can explain why they are good candidates, we can argue for the position, but defining exactly what makes a good lynch, aside from the obvious qualifier of alignment, is a bit hard.

Some factors that go into my decision are:
Attempts to conceal information
General scummy behavior
Bad play (Policy does play a factor, in my opinion)
The amount of information gained from a lynch
The level of scumminess of the people against the lynch


This is not an exhaustive list and there is no single factor which is controlling. Unfortunately, there's just not a good way to answer the question.

[Ythan]

Fiyr, pet peeve, if you could leave the name of the person you're quoting in at least one of the quote tags I would appreciate it greatly.

Wouldn't it be a null tell either way?

The yes or no would be but answers to even very simple questions usually come with more than that.

[Netopalis]

Sagan: Aside from me, who do you suspect?

[Ythan]

Neto knows I mean business.

[Ythan]

McGriddle has posted since but not addressed my points against him.

[mariomaster777]

@Netopalis

To answer your question regarding me mentioning an inconsistency between you and McGriddle, I'm gonna have to say I don't know what I was saying. It was terribly vague and poor language. I've gone back over the thread trying to make sense of my point and all I can come up with is this:

I was referring to the fact that Unsight posted you had two different reactions to McGriddle's vote and FluffyGiggle's vote. Both appeared to be "hasty" but you had two vastly different reactions to them. You have since answered Unsight's question regarding this, (a long time ago in fact. Post 63 from you in ISO) which is actually all I need to know. To be honest, the whole point of me even mentioning that was for evidence showing Unsight is on the town side. It wasn't meant to put you in bad light, but rather to show that Unsight is carefully analyzing the game at hand which is a town tell.



Now onto my additional thoughts based on what has happened so far.


I have more trust for Fiyr to be pro town now. Here's why.

3: What does 'posts content completely of his own' mean? Do you feel that any other players are posting content that are not completely of their own?

This is a bit difficult to explain what I meant so just beare with me. I don't mean this in a bad way towards anyone else either o.k.?
When a newbie joins a game, they build off of other peoples' posts and go from there.(I know I do this) But most of what he says is new things and new questions. I know other newbies have done this in this game too but, his just popped out at me.

This is in reference to my gigantic post in which I shared my thoughts on the game at hand. When questioned by FluffyGiggles on this point, I feel that your response is very appropriate. In my opinion, scum often try to hide behind other people's arguments and just flat out agree without contributing additional info. Having the insight to notice this trend or common tell gives me a little more confidence you are pro town.


I'm glad Ythan has pointed out the concept of viewing posts in isolation. (I didn't know what ISO stood for, but I figured it out now.) Looking at FluffyGiggles in ISO is VERY helpful. Sure, FluffyGiggles made only a few posts. But in my opinion, the majority (if not every single one) have good content in them. I feel more confident in FluffyGiggles being protown, as I had a null read before. I STRONGLY suggest everyone should analyze everyone else in ISO. It is a MUCH better indication of someone's playing style and commitment (or lack of commitment) towards the town's efforts.


Netopalis' post (#337 in global thread) mentions how Unsight has referenced McGriddle at least double the amount of anyone else. I think Unsight's 21 references could be due to a high volume of posts for many people. Naturally those that post more will reference other players more. This in itself doesn't necessarily raise suspicion. However, as you pointed out Netopalis, doing some more research wouldn't hurt.


I think Sagan has made his point many times over already. I still don't think he's scum for reasons I posted earlier, but the tunneling is getting annoying. Ever think for a second that you are "taking energy" away from the town by pursuing this line of questioning that has already been discussed over and over again? Sounds like beating a dead horse to me.



Summary:

I do not have additional scum reads, but I feel more confident in that Fiyr and FluffyGiggles are pro-town. I'm keeping my vote on Ythan for reasons regarding his predecessor. You'll note my vote had more reasons behind it than simple inactivity. My vote is certainly open to change, but I have no reason to change it as I don't have any additional scum reads, just as I have no reason to unvote it as well.



@Yathan (off-topic): I never noticed your quote before. I must ask about it since I somewhat know horrordude from another site. PM me if it's not appropriate to discuss in public.

[mariomaster777]

/\ Please excuse the typo in your name Ythan. Sorry about that.

[Unsight]

Neto knows I mean business.

What does this mean?

[Ythan]

I don't want to go into detail since it's an ongoing game but I led a wagon on him and he did not take it well.

[Ythan]

Neto knows I mean business.

What does this mean?

Same as my previous post. Neto's the mod of that game and just witnessed havoc. Apparently you're in it now too! Now let's stop talking about it because it's ongoing.