Mini 934 - Troubles at Smiths&Catharts (Game Over!)

[Sotty7]

Vote: RayFrost

Hello.

[Sotty7]

Apart from CyberBob he is the only one I have played with on this player list.

Why did you vote for me? You first post suggests your not against the RVS stage but your hop onto me seems weird.

[Sotty7]

What's the reason?

I didn't vote for Bob cause he is probably gonna be replaced.

[Sotty7]

...Because he didn't confirm.

Can you link me to some of your completed games?

[Sotty7]

Becuase everyone is focusing on him. No one else is even being talked to right now.

everyone being focused on something unrelated = distraction = no found scum, unless by accident = loss.

So what would be the scum motivation in Ythan's play so far? Also you are adding to the cycle as you are only talking about Ythan. If you wanted to change that why not bring up something else?

For example, what do you think about SFG putting her vote on the only inactive player at this point?

[Sotty7]

@sotty - you raised a question about SFG putting her vote on the only absent player. Now that she has moved her vote to me - on the basis of few posts, what are your thoughts on it? Especially considering you have as few posts as me.

I hate it considering that in the same post she made an excuse for her own “lurking”. Also she seems to ignore other things that are happening in the game to vote a perceived “lurker”. Why no scum hunting? Why continue the RVS like that seeing as she said earlier that she likes to vote non posters in RVS. In all it doesn't add up to me and smells like scum.

Unvote, Vote: SFG

Also getting bad vibes from TheCheshireCat. Might have something to do with all those smiles in the post. Puts me on edge. Thor is feeling pretty townie at this point.

Pom, do you know scrambles? Why did you mention his age like you did? Considering that you are around the same age I wouldn't have thought you would be the one making excuses for a players play due to his age. Also why an FOS over a vote, especially at this point in the game?

Welcome Troll. I think this is my first non hydra game with you.

[Sotty7]

Pom, do you know scrambles? Why did you mention his age like you did? Considering that you are around the same age I wouldn't have thought you would be the one making excuses for a players play due to his age. Also why an FOS over a vote, especially at this point in the game?

I don't, but when someone does something (like what Scrambles did) I like to check background- if the person who had done that was 30, I would have definitely placed a vote. I guess I have different standards, because it seems to me that it's more likely for a 13-year-old to go 'Huh? Omgus? Policy Lynch? Claim?' than someone who is 30. I think that this also applies to myself. I hope I explained it okay, but it just might be the way I think.

And that's why it was an FoS instead of a vote.

I can believe this.

Inquisitor, I forgot to ask in my last post, but what do you think of SFG's voting patten so far?

[Sotty7]

SFG replacing out in the manner she did actually makes me feel better about my vote. Not cool.

It wasn't an insult.

I was saying 'STATE YOUR DAMNED REASONING!'

Is that clearer?

Because you didn't talk about me at all in the post where you voted me...

Err yes he does. Look again.

I'm doing away with the meta, and I have to say that it is quite freeing, even if it is annoying to go against my usual and comfortable playstyle.

Why have you decided to do away with meta for this game?

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7 - What was it bout the manner SFG replaced out that makes you so contented in the Saijin vote?

Before I put any real pressure on she was happy to push lurkers while laying the grounds for lurking herself. I then put my vote on her and suddenly she can't play two games at once? I don't buy it. So it is mostly the timing of her replacement request that gives me a scum feel. It came as a direct result from pressure and I have to think she would have stuck around if I hadn't done anything.

@Thor,
I don't really mind Pom's SFG vote considering it was RVS, but Sotty's bothers me a bit. He voted for her because "she made up an excuse for lurking" and "Continued RVS." Considering she was in another game at the time and clearly stated she couldn't handle two, plus the fact she was sick obviously is going to detach her from the game a bit, which seems reason enough for her RVS continuation and lurking.

Go back and look at the timing of how quickly she went from, “oh I'll be here but I might lurk.” to, “omg I can't handle the pressure of two games!” My vote on her was the only real thing she had to react to and she chooses to replace out. I don't see a townie motivation for that, it could just be anti-town, but right now I think that slot is likely scum. Saijn's lurking isn't changing my mind on that either.

lol i learned that from Panacea It makes the game not so serious.

Actually I find it is away for the player mask their posts. It makes them appear happy and carefree and can been used to try and blend into the town. But if this is your meta in that you post smiles all the time in like every post, then it is probably a null tell with you.

As far as the major wagons go I prefer a Ray vote over a Ythan vote, but Thor's case does give me something to chew on. I want Ray to give some content and explain why he is breaking his meta in this game and why he even felt the need to to mention this in the first place.

Thor when you call Ray anti town am I right in assuming you don't agree with his wagon?

[Sotty7]

Scrambles, post 259 and 261 don't work together. Care to explain why you see NS as scum no matter what and yet that's not vote worthy?

[Sotty7]

Scrambles, how long are you willing to wait for NS before you do decide to vote him? Why is this different from the other votes you have placed so far in the game?

Cooper, I understand what you are saying and agree to a point, I am not completely sold on SFG scum. Sajin needs to get in here and start playing his lurking isn't helping matters at all.

I am also still waiting on Ray. If he doesn't post some real content by the end of today he will be getting my vote as well.

[Sotty7]

Pom how about you post a townie/scum list instead of a content list?

[Sotty7]

In my opinion it doesn't because it's talking about activity not about what is going on in said game. But surely you have more to say than just that?

[Sotty7]

Also, I'm fine with just scum lists if that's how you all want to play it. I personally see no harm in scum/town lists as long as every one doesn't post one at the same time

[Sotty7]

That's your response? That's all you have to say? I'm not endangering the other game. I'm outing you as a lurker.

It's still totally fucking bullshit.

Why so angry about being called out on this?

[Sotty7]

What's your history with NS Ythan? (As long as you can explain without breaking any rules of course.) I almost feel sorry for the replacement after that display of asshattery.

So now we have NS with his unexplainable or understandable rage towards Ythan.
Sajin who is

still

lurking!
And Ray who has posted two back to back posts promising content. Ugh.

Vote: Ray

I keep my promises but wagoning any of the three mentioned above would be good.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, Vote: Ray

even...

[Sotty7]

The Col is too bad ass to run such a nightmare sounding game Thor! With that in mind I have to believe we have just been unlucky so far. Like really, really unlucky.

I did some looking around as far as Ythan v NS goes and his reaction in this thread doesn't really match the "offenses" in my opinion. I really don't want to let Ray or Sajin get away, but with this in mind I would join an NS wagon if it was to pick up.

[Sotty7]

@The assembled Ray wagon - I am not fond of this wagon but will admit it is mostly for a bit of a stupid reason (frankly I feel like Ray's trying to be lynched). I would like each of you to comment on what you think Ray has done that paints him as scum (or as anti-town, but then at least admit you're voting for him for being anti-town as opposed to scummy).

I know Ray as an active poster, almost but not quite as bad as Ythan. In this game he has been a non factor and he won my vote for posting twice promising content and not delivering. I want to see him actually start scum hunting ASAP.

Then I turn over to page 15 and I see nothing but Ray stalling in posting anything of content. So I pretty much agree with Cooper's posts on this page.

town reads woohoo, oh yeah, boo yah, they are...

copper, pome, ythan, thor, zorblag, and inquisitor jl.

the scum reads are NS, NS' sister, and NS' pets.

Neutral is scrambles.

Jester is RayFrost

did I miss anybody?

You missed a few people actually. Also this barely counts as content. What do you think about NS and his little hissy fit? What do you think about Thor's case on Ythan? What do you think about Sajin's lurking? And so on...

[Sotty7]

The sheer volume of defensive content coming in response to my gut case is just baffling.

Is being defensive scummy? If so why?

Also I find a little funny that kthx complains of Ythan's posting habits then facilitates it for a page plus. That said at this point I would rather lynch Ythan than kthx simply because Ythan is refusing to expand on his scum read and not expelling any effort to convince others. I don't see this as pro town behavior.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, Vote: Ythan

Part deadline vote, part Ythan isn't actually scum hunting or trying to convince anyone of anything despite being asked to by several different players. Scummy.

I believe that puts him at 4 votes. I am willing to move back to Ray, but we need to get a move on as a town and start seriously running someone up if we want them to claim and still have time to lynch.

[Sotty7]

Sotty: Why are you willing to move back to Ray? What about his play thus far has made you believe he is scum? I'm sure you have said it before, but a post now consolidating your case on Ray (I'm assuming you have one) would be helpful.

His statement of "breaking his meta" and my still unanswered question of why he chose this game to do this.

He then proceeded to lurk the rest of the day and has only just started producing content directed at one player.

He called Troll town when Troll himself said he hadn't done

anything

. Meta doesn't work here.

I think there is at least one scum between Ray and Ythan at this point so I am happy with either lynch.

What are your thoughts on Ray?

[Sotty7]

I have no desire to facilitate your junk posting Ythan. Thor, Troll and myself have all asked you for cases on NS and you have ignored us all. With kthnx's posting I feel he is generating actual content so between you and him I'm gonna lynch you. The deadline is in two days, I'd rather lynch than not.

TCC is now v/la till the deadline probably, that is not good. We need everyone in here coming to a lynch. My two suspects are Ythan and Rayfrost. In that these are two people I am willing to vote for with the deadline so close. Ray is my number one, Ythan my number two. I think everyone needs to get in here and state their top two asap.

[Sotty7]

Do you disagree with a deadline pressured lynch?

I disagree with his attempt to rush to the deadline without answering anything.

Are you talking about me here? If you are I am a)female and b) don't recall you actually asking me anything. You are still ignoring my call for a case on the so called “obv scum” NS that you dropped quicker than a heartbeat. Give me a case or break down on what you are thinking and then we can talk.

The deadline is a real threat unless you want a no lynch, I find it scummy that you don't seem to care about that. We need flips and info to figure out what is going on.

Though with scrambles replacing out we should get an extension.

Mod: Any chance of an extra week to give a replacement a chance to catch up?

Pom seems content to hunt lurkers. In a game like this that isn't hard to do, but I would like some opinions on actual posters too please.

What questions has he dodged?

I don't believe he's supported his vote.

Pot, kettle etc...

[Sotty7]

What points have you made on me Ythan?

I'm pretty sure you have made nothing over the omgus'y vote on me which really doesn't need a response. I'm happy to address points and questions, but you have made none.

[Sotty7]

Welcome to the madhouse CSL and Locke.

Ray really bothers me. I've deliberately avoided my own meta as town once but not in a way that was so wilfully anti-town. The only time I've really felt like he was genuinely interested in this game was in his reaction to Pomegranate's confirm vote. That actually gives me a town read, which brings me on to Pome.

Why does his reaction to Pom give you a townie feel? That doesn't make much sense to me seeing as both scum and town have a built in self preservation kick, it's a null tell at best.

I agree something is off about Pom, I asked her for a scum list a forever ago and she still hasn't posted it. If she wants to say that he confirm vote post is her scum list then I am even less impressed considering a bulk of that post talks about lurkers (Ray, IJL and TCC) I want a

real

scum list. I want some discussion about active posters (Thor, myself, copper)

I don't really like this TCC wagon. Her posts feel very newbie like, the only thing that raises my heckles are the smiles. I would like her to come back and add to the thread answering the pressure against her, but I won't be voting her any time soon baring something intense happening.

Ray

– Why are you choosing to break meta in this game?

[Sotty7]

Sotty: I agree that self-preservation is no better than a null tell in itself. Ray's reaction just read to me like someone who had spotted scum trying to boost existing suspicion on him, not like scum reacting defensively to an accusation. People have been after Ray most of the game for his 'meta change'. For him to react in the way he did against Pome after apparently not really being bothered all game seems more like a genuine townie reaction, not a manufactured scum reaction.

Eehhh that's a reach I think, but okay.

I agree something is off about Pom, I asked her for a scum list a forever ago and she still hasn't posted it. If she wants to say that he confirm vote post is her scum list then I am even less impressed considering a bulk of that post talks about lurkers (Ray, IJL and TCC) I want a

real

scum list. I want some discussion about active posters (Thor, myself, copper)

I was asked by other players to only give my scumreads in my scumleast, and not my townreads. Post 474.

So only the lurkers are scummy to you and you have nothing to say about anyone else?

Unvote, Vote: Ray

I find myself agreeing with Locke more than disagreeing with him so it's time to move my vote back to my number one suspect. The only meaningful thin he has done is defend himself to Pom, where is the scum hunting? I'm not feeling anything remotely town driven from him.

[Sotty7]

By the by, if you find yourself agreeing with locke on the majority of his points and one of his points is that he thinks I'm town for [insert stuff here], would your vote state that it is one of the (few) points of his that you disagree with?

His calling you town is one of the things I disagree with, yes. His logic around that is poor in my opinion because what you did is nothing but a null tell. I have been questioning him on this.

I will say that I'm willing to hammer TCC. The content hasn't improved.

I find this hypocritical.

Ugh Locke's hop is weak. I'm not seeing the Ray contradiction, it just looks like a game of semantics to me. He also justifies his TCC vote only to abandon it. I don't like it.

I agree with Troll and Copper that TCC's wagon did build pretty fast considering how hard the other wagons in this town have been. That said post 533 by TCC was awful. She needs to follow up on her promise of delivering some actual content.

[Sotty7]

Sotty: do you disagree with me that Kthxbye over-justifying his hop onto the wagon is scummy? Also, that's called switching my vote. I'm responding to new information. I fail to see how this is scummy.

Not really no, mostly because I do agree that we a flip. Ythan's ridiculous amounts of junk posting have made this day much longer than it should be. I'm in no rush to lynch though, but I do feel his pain to a point.

Thor665's question ties directly into the Game Theory that I was applying to my pick. Basically, that as people are less likely to be scum than other roles, people are more active when they are scum, because it is an experience they do not get to fulfill as often.

Is this a round about way of saying scum are more active? Because that isn't true. Troll explains this pretty well in his follow up post but I will add that activity really depends on the player. I have seen active scum and lurky scum and in between scum. You can't just use a broad stroke to cover it because it is different for everyone.

I am feeling slightly disconnected with this game right now. The lock then restart combined with my crazy weekend has put this game on the back burner. I'm going to have to look back though it all tomorrow and sort my thoughts out. (Ack another replacement.)

[Sotty7]

Locke's unvote of TCC shows that he saw Kthxbye's vote on the wagon and alarm bells were set ringing by the fact that Kthxbye felt the need to over-justify the case on a terrible player. 'We need a flip' could be said about any D1 lynch ever.

Don't you think you are over simplifying this? Do you not agree that this day is a lot bigger than what really needed to be? I really think Ythan's posting here has bogged day one down and could be the reason were needing a lot of replacements. But that really is another issue altogether. You say kthnx padded his case but you only mention the whole “need a flip” thing as scummy. Is there any other parts of the case that bother you?

I agree with your Pom assessment, I have on many occasions tried to question her and draw her out but she doesn't appear to be interested. Her pressure has focused mostly on lurkers which, considering her lack of content is getting laughable. In fact,

Unvote, Vote: Pom

I really think she is very likely scum because I don't see any attempt at scum hunting outside her push on Ray. Oh and look a post promising content from Pom. I won't hold my breath.

I think I can understand this. I just feel like I'm the only person here who see TCC for what I would suspect she really is. A disinterested townie who joined this website thinking it would be a lot of action and entertainment, but left with the impression that it's just a bunch of people arguing with each other.

I'm not going to deny that TCC has came under my suspicions at one point or another, but that was before she effectively left this website. When you have players like charter and CSL saying this means she's obvious scum, well, that's not exactly easy to swallow.

You are not the only person to think this, I'm also on this wagon. I'm feeling TCC town and have since her wagon built.

Charter, you could ISO your replacement. (Also welcome to the game)

As for CSL I have also had experience playing with him and he is hyper active and aggressive as a player so this non play is completely off ball. My theory is that his sig was about only modding games and not playing any more. He only got into this one by cross replacing with CC. So I don't think he really cares for playing and his lack of commitment pretty much shows that. I can't read him off the posts he has made so far so it is really annoying.

[Sotty7]

I really think [Pom] is very likely scum because I don't see any attempt at scum hunting outside her push on Ray. Oh and look a post promising content from Pom. I won't hold my breath....
...You are not the only person to think this, I'm also on this wagon. I'm feeling TCC town and have since her wagon built.

Do I take it you draw the difference between the two because you read TCC as lurking and Pom as active lurking? Is there anything more/less to the distinction?

Pretty much yeah. Pom is pretending to scum hunt without actually providing anything of real use. I have asked her opinions a couple of times and nothing has resulted from it. I'm finding her really fake and scummy.

The difference with TCC is that I got a strong newb read off her and her replacing out/lurking isn't really telling to a newbie alignment. The only thing that I don't like about her is the smiles thing.

Locke you can always switch your vote with me and see if others are willing to come. If not you can always switch back.

[Sotty7]

The difference with TCC is that I got a strong newb read off her and her replacing out/lurking isn't really telling to a newbie alignment.

What do you then think of Charter's stated opinion in that regard?

My thing with charter is when I think he is town, he is scum and when I think he is scum he is town. He often confuses me. I obviously don't agree with his statement, but I don't find it scummy. Yet at least, I need more from him.

And this recent rush on to Pomegrante has left a terrible taste in my mouth. They are valid points - but the fact that this town seems to be ready for a new wagon makes me wonder why everyone is tip-toeing around CSL so carefully. Scrambles left no great pro-town legacy, and CSL's net contribution was an L-2 vote on TCC because where he comes from, smilies are a scumtell. As I've said previously, looking at the gameflow makes this a scummy spot to sit, it's a lacking justification, and - in contrast to previous meta experience - CSL has not returned to say anything more, despite promises to do so. Sotty and Thor, what exactly makes Pomegrante a better lynch than CSL? This is particularly valid in light of the fact that Sotty agrees with the idea of TCC being town, which gives CSL's vote a highly sensible scum context to go along with it's terrible justification, and Thor has

specifically

mentioned feeling 'skeevy' about CSL's vote on TCC but for whatever reason doesn't discuss the idea of lynching him.

Two votes makes for a rush these days?

I take it that this is one of the hydra heads who hasn't played with CSL, because if you had you would know CSL doesn't often follow the best logic, scum or town he ALWAYS looks scummy. so I am going to need more than one post to make a choice on if CSL is scummy or not. He is very hard to read because of this meta.

With that said I went back and saw that CSL replaced someone I found very scummy SFG/Sajin. So yeah with that in mind he is suddenly bumped up my list and I wouldn't mind lynching him today.

I see we all had forgotten who had replaced who. It's sad when a game gets like this.

Troll, here are some CSL games.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12277 In this game he asked for replacement, but he is highly active to start with.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12707 In this one he is town and lynched.

What was the game that you saw a lurky CSL?

So with the deadline so close I am willing to lynch Pom, CSL and Ray.
I don't like the TCC wagon
I also don't like the kthx wagon

[Sotty7]

Cooper you make strong points about lynching CSL and I'm not against it all. I just wish the rest of the player list was actually active so we can come together and get a lynching wagon. This is getting ridiculous.

[Sotty7]

Pretty much yeah. Pom is pretending to scum hunt without actually providing anything of real use. I have asked her opinions a couple of times and nothing has resulted from it. I'm finding her really fake and scummy.

Can you show a few examples for me?

Sure.

Here, Pom makes a content list. Not a townie scum list, but a content list. This is crap because she doesn't actually say anything about her scum reads unless you want to leap in and say that lurking is her biggest scum tell. However she has a middle category that is called “not making any sense” How is that helpful?

I ask Pom to expand on her suspicions in the form of a townie/scum list. Others in the game say they don't like these lists and so Pom brushes off my case and tells Troll to do a townie/scum list. Notice this comes up after the town objection to the lists.

A few days later she makes this post in which everyone she is suspicious of is a lurker. She also finds TCC and IJL scummy for their “will catch up” posts even though she was guilty of doing so herself. She also doesn't provide her town/scum list even though she said it was "in the works"

I call her out on this and again here only for her to come back with this which is clearly back tracking. I also asked her for some discussion on active posters and she still doesn't provide this. More me calling her out

She then has the nerve to say she would hammer TCC because of poor content. What crap.

This is followed up by really weak questioning of HH with no follow up.

I also noticed looking back a big connection between Pom and Scrambles/HH. She defended Scrambles and his age at the start of the game. She put scrambles in the “not making any sense” section of the fail content list. Then the weak questioning of HH. If Pom flips scum that's where I would be looking next.

Ray if Pom is scum why FOS?

[Sotty7]

Scotty, why the lack of proper grammar / sudden cessation of finding me scummy?

You can blame the grammar on my dyslexia, but this is pretty funny seeing as you couldn't even get my SN right.

I never said I didn't find you scummy. Your still on my list, Pom is just doing a great job of overshadowing you.

Also, how exactly are you looking for Pom's supposed partner(s)?

[Sotty7]

charter as the only other active player that isn't Pom, you need to get in here and vote.

[Sotty7]

A full game? Excellent.

While you have a point Socrates, HH had already jumped in before lurking away. His case didn't really get much traction and by the end of the day he was a scummy player to a few.

I feel like I should go back to my Ray vote. He was hyper defensive at the end of the day coming out of the wood work to poke at me who had stopped voting him at that point. He also claimed to be looking for Pom's "partners" but ended up doing a lot of nothing.

Vote: Ray

I am very interested in the new comers opinions on what has happened so far. Fate in particular.

[Sotty7]

It's productive in that I think Ray is scum. You are going to have to do something better than quote Ythan to convince me otherwise. Just because I was scum in one game doesn't make me scum in this. You criticize me for going after an "easy" target but you pushing the TCC slot the easiest target of them all.

When you stop being hypocritical I'd like to know why you think Ray is town. Also you have brought nothing new to the table in regards to TCC.

You then say the scum bussed TCC and switch to Pom before singling myself and Cooper out. Two people who did not climb aboard TCC wagon.

Why nothing about Locke?
Why nothing about Kthx?
Why nothing about Troll?

Is socrates your number one scum read? Actually I would like a top three scum list from you ASAP.

[Sotty7]

Vote: Copper

It's my experience

that when scum make a NK action that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the first person to bring it up is usually scum. Not to mention that I agree with the part that I would have thought scum would kill a more active player...unless, you know, the scum was a very active player.

Links please.

Copper's Post 710 is exactly why I wanted to know if Socrates was Fate's number one. Lots of contradicting language there which makes me believe you don't even believe yourself and/or you are already planning for your out come tomorrow.

I have no problem with Troll. Maybe because I can't read him at all, but he has sounded pretty townie so far.

Which is it? You can't read him or your leaning town on him?

You also didn't really answer my question, I would like to see your top three scum picks in your next post.

make it sound more like a fatalistic policy lynch for information. If you're thinking he's scum, then I'm curious as to why you think he will help us while he's here.

Policy lynch? Hell no. It is an

information

lynch. Are you trying to shed doubt on the connections to TCC? Are you worried that once your buddy flips you'll look really bad?

And ANY player, regardless of alignment, can "help us" by posting meaningful posts. The more Socrates talks today, the easier it will be to find his scum buddy (if scum) or scum, (if he's town and actually looking for scum).

This is such a cop out any player slot would be a good information lynch at this point. you are reaching so bad on such shaky logic it's not even funny.

Charter, you think Fate is town?

Unvote, Vote: Fate

Fate's attack on Socrates is awful, this TTC was bussed theory doesn't even hold weight under his own analysis in post 711. Won't provide a solid scum list. Wants to lynch for information at this point. if Fate is scum then I doubt Ray is because of how he scolded my vote. Smacks of I told you so. Definitely regretting not following Copper onto CSL yesterday now.

[Sotty7]

Your vote sucks. Please comment on Fate/Socrates.

[Sotty7]

SFG

-Voted lurkers while making excuses about her own lurking.
-Extended RVS
-Replaced out as soon I started to apply pressure to her.

Sajin

-Zip. What was the point of replacing in?

CSL

-Joke voted a now confirmed townie slot (Scrambles) despite reading all the thread bar three pages.

Fate

-Trying to push Socrates as his number one but uses a lot of contradicting language. (Talking about information lynches when Soc is supposed to be his number one.
-Says the scum bussed TCC and then hoped onto Pom out of necessity
-However his two and three picks never voted for TCC and were the two people speaking out against the wagon (Copper and myself)
-The people who did actually vote TCC and then voted Pom (Troll, kthnx, locke) all seem town to Fate expect some weak suspicion on kthnx.

Fate is easily the scummiest player right now by a long way. Troll is troubling me and needs to post today ASAP. kthnx really needs to get his promised post up because his vote on Copper is awful. I'd like to see charter more involved, same with Locke. They both feel stand offish to me right now, but at least charter has a vote in play. I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Copper says.

Mod, can we get a prod on Troll please?

[Sotty7]

CSL voted for Cheshire, not Scrambles.

Hmm fail on my part. Strike that then.

I would also like to say that I am not looking for a quick lynch. Thor is on V/LA till the 4th of April I believe and I would like his input on things if possible.

[Sotty7]

The sooner Socrates finishes the game the better. I think we need another prod on Ray too. Ugh.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, how are you agreeing with what Copper is saying? What about what he says not relating to Fate?

I'm not a huge fan of the night kill post but I am feeling more Coppertown than Copperscum at this point. What do you think about his/my case that Fate is scum?

I have also been working of the thought that TCC/Socrates is town, does that make me scummy as well?

Right now I am thinking the scum team is Fate, Troll and maybe Locke. Still not sure on charter.

[Sotty7]

Not really Michel. Locke wasn't really involved with the game all that much so I don't think there is anything pressing to address. The sooner you catch up with the game the better.

[Sotty7]

I'm here but some what poorly and that has effected my posting in all my games. I know it is hurting this one more than most but I am doing what I can.

I will be back later and read up on what I missed since my last post. I promise I will not flake on this game.

[Sotty7]

But the rest doesn't follow. SFG/Saijin got some initial heat from Pom and Sotty before Pom twittered off to Ray and Sotty eventually leapt to the TCC wagon (and then later Ray, before heading to Pom).

Wait, wait, wait. I never voted TCC and was with Copper in thinking that slot was town since around the mid of day one. I went for SFG, to Ray, to Ythan, back to Ray and then to Pom.

I am pretty sure Copper is town at this point. This wagon is bad. I'd like a detailed case presented on why Copper is scum, because I don't see a lot of spin. Break it down blow by blow for me.

Thor why was it important to get Michel to state if he agrees with the people he replaced? I don't remember you asking any other replacement this, it seems kind of strange. I would rather hear Michel's own opinions on what went down.

Fate, you said it was scummy that Socrates hasn't commented/committed much on day one, what about charter? His vote on Copper is based on today's actions only and he said in thread that he skipped most of day one. Why are you not finding that scummy?

Why do you think he's town? Are you using the same dodgy reasons as Copper? If you have some actual reason for thinking that, then it doesn't, but if your reason is something not telling like 'wagon speed' then yeah, that would make you scummy. 

It's part wagon speed in collaboration with how slow the rest of the game was and part newbie gut read. I will say that Socrates isn't oozing protowness in this game. It's making my nose itch.

request extension - vote 3 of needed 6

Where the frig is Troll?

[Sotty7]

Dude, I haven't lurked in this game.

[Sotty7]

Thor why was it important to get Michel to state if he agrees with the people he replaced? I don't remember you asking any other replacement this, it seems kind of strange. I would rather hear Michel's own opinions on what went down.

For the second part of your question - then ask him. Certainly me asking him for his reads on his predecessors has very little to do with preventing you from asking him for his own reads. I don't even begin to understand your issue here. Also, his reads on his predecessor's actions *is* his own opinion.

For the first part - mostly just frustration with the replacements. I liked certain aspects of what Ythan had done and had town reads off of some of it. I wanted to see how Michel would react to it.

Frustration with the replacements I can understand. Copper, you and myself are all that is left of the original player list and that is just pathetic really.

My issue is that by asking Michel his opinions on the players he replaced kinda gives him a running start on the game something early and quick to comment to make him look active. It doesn't appear like he has actually read all the game either so I am not sure how he can agree or disagree with anything his predecessors have done, but that aside, it was strange that you would want to help him ease into the game and not others. It was just a strange feeling I got that I am finding hard to articulate, it twigged my gut.

That's not accurate in the slightest. Pom's wagon was brought about as a compromise lynch towards the very end of the day. How is that even close to resembling the case against Fate?

Pom was an easy lynch. Lurky, not scumhunting, pretty much an easy target. Fate's early posts today were pretty bizarre, but I'm afraid he's just another easy target. I actually find it pretty suspicious that Sotty unvoted TCC to vote Pom, and now she's voting Fate. Not really any good scumhunting at all coming from her. The three people I find most suspicious are currently voting Fate, so yeah, it looks like the easy wagon of day two.

I NEVER VOTED FOR TCC I CLEARED THAT UP IN MY LAST POST.

How did you miss that?

Also didn't you say that my case on Fate has some merit? How is that not good scum hunting?

[Sotty7]

@Sotty - I'm not sure I see what "twigged" your gut there. I do know that I asked questions to Saijin, HH, Kthx, and probably others when they replaced in (the Kthx one is in some ways a very functionally similar question to the Michel one since it asked for a read on a predecessor's action).

So either this isn't much of a tell for me (or a tell at all) or at least if it's a tell between Michel and I it's also probably a tell between Kthx and I and you can see if the vibe there is similar or different to what piece of wood is or is not in your gut.

Your explanation was reasonable enough. I don't feel like pushing it right now. You know what guts re like, I had to question it.

Okay Fate's points on me are bullshit. Yeah I asked questions but I have also provided plenty of analysis too. Yeah I thought Pom was scum, so what?

Unvote, Vote: Pom 

I really think she is very likely scum because I don't see any attempt at scum hunting outside her push on Ray. Oh and look a post promising content from Pom. I won't hold my breath.

After not having said a word on her before. Why was Pom scum and not other lurkers/inactives that didn't scumhunt? If lack of scumhunting is a scumtell, then why did Sotty think TCC was town? Just because the speed of the wagon?

This is a lie. I spent several posts questioning Pom so I had mentioned her before. If you had actually

read

my ISO you would have seen that. You would have also seen how I differentiated between Pom and TCC.

With that said I went back and saw that CSL replaced someone I found very scummy SFG/Sajin.

How did you find SFG/Sajin scummy? SFG didn't post outside of RVS (iirc) and Sajin didn't post ONCE. This seems like a blatant, "oh well I found CSL's slot scummy before..." excuse to vote him later, oh yeah that's me and she's voting me today.

Again if you had read my ISO you would have seen me pushing SFG right at the start of the game and why I found her scummy. Seriously.

Fate you also ignored my question to you about charter. If you really read my ISO you would have seen that too.

Fate, you said it was scummy that Socrates hasn't commented/committed much on day one, what about charter? His vote on Copper is based on today's actions only and he said in thread that he skipped most of day one. Why are you not finding that scummy?

I am not liking how both charter and now Fate have clearly missrepped me. Thor also did this, but I'm feeling more a genuine mistake. I really want a Fate lynch at this point. charter is a likely buddy.

I am waiting to see who Michel thinks is scum.

Pie, if you can give me some good reasons why we should mass claim on day two in a mini normal then lets here them. Otherwise I'm against it. have you read the game yet?

SaintKerrigan, same question to you.

[Sotty7]

I had the same reaction to Michel's last post Pie, but Pom also did a similar thing in this game that I jumped on and she flipped town. I just really want to see who he thinks is scum and why. The sooner the better.

I can see your points Pie as far as mass claim goes, but site meta these days seems to be to give the scum a roleblocker role to counter town power roles. If we out all our roles so early the roleblocker becomes even more powerful. Of course they might not have one but that's what my paranoia is saying to me. I think we wait.

[Sotty7]

Okay enough of this. I'm a gunsmith and I looked at Copper last night. He doesn't have a gun.

It was a toss up between Copper and Troll with who I wanted to investigate because of how both of them reacted to the Pom lynch, talking about her being likely to flip town and yet still joining the wagon. Pinged my gut

I didn't look at Ray because I felt he would have been easier to lynch, however with Fate's entrance into the game and admonishment of my Ray vote I feel his slot is unlikely to be scum if Fate flips which I really think he is going to at this point

I'm getting really annoyed with replacements coming and and doing nothing only getting replaced themselves. If this keeps going on this game may as well be player abandoned because it is getting impossible to get any kind of read when multiple slots are filled by two or three players.

So this is a frustrated claim that I'm hoping will actually give people SOMETHING to talk about instead of sitting on the sidelines with their hands in their pockets shrugging their shoulders and being generally unhelpful.

[Sotty7]

I would say I am against a mass claim. Mostly because I am hoping there is a doc out there that will protect me. I'll understand if the town decides to MC though and Fate would be my popcorn pick.

[Sotty7]

I have no issues with claiming gun/no gun, but if we're gonna do it we should starts ASAP. The deadline is coming up.

I am finding myself agreeing a lot with Fate on this page. Especially with his post about charter. His lurking is ridiculous and I would be very happy to lynch him at this point, but I think we might have to wait until tomorrow to deal with him. I'm starting to think my frustration with Fate pushing a case on Copper might have been blinding me as far as that player slot goes. He is putting in a lot of effort and seems to be digging in the game to work things out.

I don't really like the push on Pie. I'm not seeing the trouble with what he said about SK like other people are. SK is still stalling I want to see his ISO work, I want to see some cases or solid opinions on people and we're just not getting that.

unvote, Vote:SK

The two people I'd like to see hang today are SK and charter. Everyone else is too tightly bundled together in my reads.

PREVIEW EDIT: Socrates, I don't like that the deadline is coming up and we still don't have a reaction from charter after my claim on Copper. It could be that he is legit busy but it feels a little too convenient. Is there something about Fate's post on charter you don't like outside the whole, "going after a lurker" thing?

[Sotty7]

Sorry about not being around. I have a family member in hospital so weekends are busy times around here.

I can understand the unvoting of SK with the tracker claim. With how Ray acted on day one I had the thought he might be a cop. That was another reason I didn't look into him because being told he had a gun would have done little to clear up my opinion on him either way.

Can't say I am sad about the Fate lynch. Here's hoping my initial gut reaction to him was right.

[Sotty7]

This game feels good to be over finally.

I pretty much agree with everything Copper said in his post (a trend for this thread) Col, you did so well to keep this game going with all the flaking. At one point I was sure it was going to get player abandoned. So big props for you there. I thought you did a great job as a mod here.

As for the ending... Well, I'll take a draw