Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[d3x]

My favorite fruit is named Harley. He's a cherry.

[d3x]

Vote: Zang

For capitalizing names that shouldn't be capitalized.

[d3x]

it was meant to be a random vote

I think everyone knows that it was a random Vote.

I believe Spyrex is asking "Would not reading the rules be a Scumtell to you?" He's pretty clear on that, and I gotta say, your reactions is really weird.

[d3x]

Zang- How is what I wrote different from what SpyreX wrote? Why did you 'get it' when I wrote almost exactly what SpyreX wrote?

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@horror- Do you have anything constructive to add to the discussion aside form your enjoyment of bandwagons?

[d3x]

Do you think GM is being constructive?

In the sense that he's stating an opinion on the issue at hand? Yes. Do I think he could be more constructive? Definitely.

[d3x]

Um... I'm not quite following you, Fate. My Vote came before any actual discussion began. Further, I have reason to leave it there. Also, how have I not commented on the 'Zang situation' since?

He's pandering to someone pressuring him, it doesn't feel like he's voting because he thinks it's the right thing to do (or he would've done it before) but instead because he wants to appease the person voting him.

This is actually how I feel about horror's p47.

[d3x]

Dex: Do you feel that when someone gets defensive about an accusation, it's most likely a scum-tell or is there something different about Zang's over-reaction that makes it more scummy than if he were a townie over-reacting. Basically, what about his reaction made it more likely coming from scum over town in your opinion?

His posts don't quite add up, imo.

I don't buy his claim that he didn't realize SpyreX was asking him directly or what his question was. I believe he was being very direct in his line of questioning and even clarified a few times. When SpyreX reiterated the question as...

would "not reading the rules" be a scumtell?

Zang's answer was...

it was meant to be a random vote

Then after I asked, Zang responded...

you

{d3x}

explained what he was asking me and that it was specified toward me.

This was odd to me because I just wrote the exact same thing SpyreX did, adding "to you."

To sum up, I feel that he's being dishonest and all of this started before any real pressure came down on him. It was only after the pressure started building that he 'got it'.

Bonus- I'm also really not liking horror right about now.

Bonus x2-

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

Khorne is so unbelievably over-rated.

[d3x]

I do think there is a bit of a language barrier

Hrmm... I'd rather find out than make-up possible excuses for him.

@Zang- Is English your primary language?

@Kthx- If neither wagon is Vote-worthy, who is?

@DDDP- You don't like the Zang wagon, how do you feel about the horror wagon?

So would you be voting for Almaster if he had less votes? (i.e is he your scummiest).

Yeah I'd prob sling him a vote. I'm nowhere near suspicious enough to lynch though.

He has a single Vote on him. What gives? How many fewer Votes on him would you like him to have?

[d3x]

@horror- I'm very sorry to hear that, bro. Take the time you need. The game is just a game.

I said that before the latest votecount; I'm not sitting here tallying for current vote counts at this point in the game.

Fair enough, I just thought it weird having read it in conjuntion with the Vote Count.

[d3x]

<- Still happy with his Zang Vote.

@Kthx-

Why did you even right up a 'clarification post' if you were going to attack Zang with it if your post did in fact clarify the issue for him however small that clarification was?

I didn't believe the 'clarification' would get through, but that doesn't mean I can't try and gauge his reactions from the attempt. The attack {as you put it} came from the

way

he answered. As I've said before, I don't buy it. Also, I'd hardly call my p39 as an attack.

I don't believe he was being completely up front about the issue and I think he's playing it up now to try and act the VI.

[d3x]

Zang- Who is Scum?

[d3x]

@Zang- Are you waiting for something? I'm only assuming that it's horror to return and/or replace out, but do you have any ScumHunting you'd like to do today?

@Alm-

Are you guys

{SpyreX and Budja}

gunna start fighting?

Plz.

When you're back from your V/LA, I'd like to hear more about this. I was rereading it and it stuck me a bit odd that you'd want this particular fight and I'm curious as to what you'd hope to glean. Are you suspicious of either?

[d3x]

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

So the correct actions is to Vote him before he gets back from that V/LA? How is horror any more able to defend himself against this Vote than he was when he started on V/LA?

[d3x]

I'd say that if you're going to leave a wagon due to the target's inability to defend himself, it wouldn't make any sense to resume your position on said wagon until he

gets

that chance. Frankly, I question the motives of anyone who does.

[d3x]

Meh. I guess I can see that combined with your UnVote post.

He seems like a good substitute

until that other old guy gets back

.

<emphasis mine>

[d3x]

Kthx- Reread p158, first sentence. I believe the answers you're looking for about why I found it suspicious are in there.

I had a question for Fate about his reVote. DDDP and I debated the potential reasons for Voting {adding pressure} to a wagon with an absent target. I didn't like his stance. When Fate came back in and cleared up his own intention, I 'backed down'. For clarification, I still don't agree with DDDP's position, but that's theory as no one is taking that stance.

The potential Scum motivation would be adding pressure on a weak townie he/she knew wouldn't be able to defend against with the intention of overwhelming the defendant upon their return. As this was cleared up when Fate answered my question, I don't think it's an issue.

[d3x]

While I agree with Kthx on the issue of cutting the Day short, I don't think horror would be a bad lynch. There's also a mechanic built into this game that if we end the Day early, time gets added onto subsequent Days. I think the worth of the next few Days {with flips and concrete information} outweighs D1 by a longshot.

[d3x]

Posting to say that I'm going to read over the last few pages with a little more detail and see what's what this afternoon.

In the meantime, I'll say this: I've yet to play in a game with a 'Miller' and I'm not sure entirely how one is supposed to deal with them. I'm assuming it's to Lynch them sooner rather than later {as that seems to be the feeling around the last few pages}, especially if the slot s/he holds is a scummy as DS's inherited slot.

[d3x]

Ok. My thoughts are as follows...

@Kthx-

since I can't see how scum knew he was a miller, scum were pushing for his lynch long before DS replaced in.

I'd really like to know how you

know

Scum are pushing his wagon. I'd also really like to know how you

know

they were on there before the Miller claim.

FoS:Kthx

@DS-

I have posted extensively in this thread today, some acknowledgement of that and, at the very minimum, an attempt at analysis would be appreciated

So acknowledged.

Seriously though, due to your replacement's scummy posts and positioning coupled with your Miller claim, I don't see you as anything short of a liability. At the absolute best, you are a rat's nest of WIFOM, while at worst you're Scum.

@Alm-

I like fights, and most of Budja and SpyreX's posts have been really short. A fight would mean longer posts from both.

Do you not have reads on either? Do you feel that Scum are more apt to slip by making larger posts?

If you think this, why aren't you hammering DeathSauce?

Umm... because I wasn't here? Not only was he not at L-1 at the time of my posting, but I felt/feel that Zang is a better Lynch. I'd also like to look at what you quoted for a tic. I said "I don't think horror would be a bad lynch," not 'I think horror's Scum and should be our Lynch today.' Why are you trying to get me to Hammer DS?

@Kthx-

I especially want d3x to post some thoughts since his posts are a little lacking imo.

Ouch. What have I ever done to you? In what way do you think my posts are 'lacking'?

You mentioned you didn't like Horror too much in one of your posts. How are you feeling now? Still think Zang is the better lynch and why or why not? Are Zang and Horror your only 2 suspects at this time? What are your thoughts surrounding others suspicions of AMG?

Still not a fan, read above for details. Yup. He's actively trying

not

to ScumHunt. Nope. I don't think they're

not

warranted, but I'm not putting as much stock in them as those with the suspicions, I guess.

Extra Credit- I'm getting really nervous about DDDP. I think he's mostly sniping and not really adding a whole lot of depth to the conversation. Right now I have bigger fish to fry, but he's definitely on my shortlist.

[d3x]

I can get behind that.

Vote:Debonair Danny DiPietro

[d3x]

...or amg isn't a cop

Do you have a basis or reason to suspect this?

Also, I don't think AGM claimed Cop anywhere. Your light RoleFishing has been noted.

[d3x]

The light RoleFishing comment is a tad ridiculous, unless you took the meaning of my post as anything other than how I just explained it.

Not only is this what happened, but I'm still not ok with your explanation. This coupled with my p273, I'm happy with my

FoS

on you.

With his continued deliberate lack of ScumHunting or being proTown in any way, I'm also comfortable with this...

Vote:Zang

[d3x]

Oh yeah, before you accuse me of ignoring you some more...

You also ignored the second half of the line you quoted where I said "...or a ton of other scenarios" such as the other roles I just mentioned.

This only reinforces my point on your RoleFishing. Allow me to demonstrate...

"...or a ton of other scenarios"

such as the other roles I just mentioned

.

*Emphasis mine. Explain how this isn't RoleFishing.

Preview Edit

-
@Zang- who is "he" in the following quote?

I thought he was accusing you

...snip

[d3x]

@Zang- Ok, so are you saying that in p311, you thought I was accusing Kthx of RoleFishing and you didn't agree with it?

[d3x]

@Zang322- /facepalm Can't you just answer a simple question?

@Porkens323- Because you weren't. The big difference between what you did and what Kthx did, is that it felt to me like Kthx was trying to get more info from AGM; not of his investigation {although he did ask that too}, but of his Role itself. It would help the Scum to know the specifics of whether AGM is a Cop or a Watcher or a Tracker or ... whatever, I think you get my point. Also, I disagree completely that Kthx is 'attacking' me in the least.

@Kthx324- Role Fishing {to me at least} is trying to find out information about a player's Role, be it name or function or what-have-you. The reason I consider what you did "light RoleFishing" {if what I said to Porkens isn't satisfactory} is that we don't know the extent of AGM's Role and as of right now, I don't think we need to. I don't think it's a bad thing to ask for a result, but you were potentially fishing for more info about the Role itself, and that doesn't sit well with me.

Do you think there is something suspicious about the reasons the 3 you mentioned were not on the Lynch? The Day had been open ~10 hours and Budja hadn't even posted. RC and Fate had each only made a single post and both put forth questions. Also of note imo, is that what Fate posted, DDDP was at L-3 and when RC posted, he was L-4.

@Porkens325- What is an "unspoken FoS"? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[d3x]

EBWOP: that

when

Fate posted, DDDP was at L-3

[d3x]

@RC- I'm not saying that I'm against your position on cruelty, but we could potentially be in MyLo right now. Before we move forward on Lynching, we should find out what AGM has for the last few Nights. Unless you have reason to doubt his softClaim, it will make this a hell of a lot easier.

[d3x]

{d3x}

wasn't anywhere near the Kthx lynch, but his "rolefishing" comment basically started the whole thing.

You should read your quote from me again. I "wasn't anywhere near the Kthx Lynch" because I didn't have a strong ScumRead on him. I had him Neutral leaning Scum; points for- early proTown play and Hammering Scum RB, points against- p273 and his Light Rolefishing. I know Kthx IRL and he wasn't dropping nearly enough tells for me to want him up for a Lynch, especially one that went so damn fast {L-1 in ~30 posts? Seriously?}.

As you're so keen to discuss the wagon, why were you sitting so high on it, Fate? As far as I can tell, you were putting him at L-2 for quickHammering Scum. Did you feel that he was bussing? If so, do you have any solid reasons to believe that? There were legit reasons for him to Hammer, namely the Alm SoftClaim {@RC- p290}.

A policy lynch on Zang D3? Right after he calls someone out for rolefishing?

Who said this was a "policy Lynch"? He was actively being antiTown. He was dodgy, jumpy, and refused to ScumHunt. Those are all major ScumTells in my book. If cruelty hadn't NKed him, I'd probably be Voting him right now. Just because it

also

helps us that he's not in the Endgame scenario doesn't mean it's a policy Lynch.

My breakdown of the Kthx Lynch

-

Budja

Porkens- L-3 due to Kthx's response to RoleFishing claim
Fate- L-2 {suspicion listed above}
cruelty- L-1 due to Kthx's request of AGM {re: not sharing innocent reads}

Kthx

I don't like either cruelty's or Fate's reasons for being on this wagon. In hindsight, I'm really not liking their interactions either from Fate's end {namely those starting with p99}. With the uncontested Claim on the NK, cruelty has more credibility imo.

If I were sure it wasn't MyLo, I'd be Voting:Fate here.

------------------------

Another JOAT Claim? *groan...

[d3x]

Claim:

Well, my dude has no name, and no powers.

WTF is this bullshit.

If you don't believe him, then why aren't you Voting him?

I've already claimed ... I can nameclaim if people want.

I thought that was the point of a MassClaim.

@Fate- I agree. What order would you like for the MassClaim?

@Porkens- Was that a serious Claim?

[d3x]

I want to know from Porkens if that's an actual Claim because if he's f*ing around and I Vote him, Scum can end this.

[d3x]

How do you understand this concept now, but you didn't understand it when I wasn't voting for him less than 5 minutes ago.

Calling a Claim "bullshit" and being worried about Scum QuickLynching are 2

very

different things, AGM. Why is Porkens' Claim "bullshit"?

[d3x]

I have no problems Claiming now.

Roger Enright-VT

That's going to be a hard sell considering that all of the Townies I'm seeing have names, as do I. Care to reconcile that, Fate?

[d3x]

*post

[d3x]

Vote:d3x

[d3x]

HUZZAH!!! Porkens for MVP all the way! I must admit I was so freaking confused about the NK. I didn't see that Porkens had switched to NK at the last minute. I was expecting RC to come out with a last minute Doc save or a successful block by AGM.

Great game everyone! Great game Mod! Thank you all.

[d3x]

In regards to the quoting role PMs, I'll tell you what I did to end up on the list. As we were not given names, I wrote what I was called, "a great and seemingly harmless social influencer". In the absence of a character name, I felt that this

was

my character name. I simply did not equate this as a quote of the Role PM as I wouldn't consider claiming Cop to be quoting the Role PM, even if it's in there. Lessons learned, I guess. I'll make sure to check with the Mod before posting any combinations of words from the PM.

I actually took larger issue with the fact that RC was called out for quoting his Role PM. The section he quoted had flavor that was almost identical to the Town WinCon listed in the OP. As HR said he was not to quote his PM and RC was immediately put up on the Greylist in HR's wiki page, the Mod thus verified RC's alignment to anyone paying close enough attention. I don't think anyone noticed it which helped us Scum out, but still...

All in all, I really enjoyed the game. I think HR did a good job running, and I will definitely play in another of his games.