Mafia 110: Mafia in Hell, Michigan (Tied.)

[Ythan]

No fighting on whether to lynch Dude or Rich. We obviously lynch both. Just pick one for today and we do the other tomorrow.

Since no one bothered to do this last time, I'll ask again:

And then SK D3.

[Dr.Cyanide]

Nice catch Farside.

Between horrordude, crypto and beater, crypto does look scummier, but only because horrordude and beater look like newbie town.

Vote:Crypto

because I'm sure I did this already.

Plus Richard thinking he's in the clear seems a little presumptuous.

[Ythan]

A lot presumptuous.

[pman5595]

I don't remember what he actually first did, but when asked about it, he noobclaimed

I'm a noob, I think I'm liable to make mistakes.

in a way. When someone is acting scummy, we can't tell whether they are just a noob, or scum.

Appealed to emotion

I was having one of the shittiest days of my life at the time, and I didn't care whether or not the town lynched me.

I'm really sorry about your day. In general though, AtEs are scummy. Also, I hate to bring it up, as I believe you, but if you are making that up to avoid suspicion, I would be really disappointed.

Tried to dismiss his case

Aren't I supposed to do that? Or is it better to go "You're right about all of that, but I'm not scum, just trust me"?

there is a difference between proving why you are not scummy and distracting others from you case.

Tried to put more suspicion on someone else.

Again, am I not supposed to do that? Even if I did say that I wasn't scum and offered good evidence for it, what good would it be if I didn't list someone that I suspected?

again, trying to say: "here, don't pay attention to my case, look at theirs!

[horrordude0215]

Appealed to emotion

I was having one of the shittiest days of my life at the time, and I didn't care whether or not the town lynched me.

I'm really sorry about your day. In general though, AtEs are scummy. Also, I hate to bring it up, as I believe you, but if you are making that up to avoid suspicion, I would be really disappointed.

Believe me, after the day I had you would have felt the EXACT same way that I did, and know that I didn't say it to avoid suspicion.

Tried to dismiss his case

Aren't I supposed to do that? Or is it better to go "You're right about all of that, but I'm not scum, just trust me"?

there is a difference between proving why you are not scummy and distracting others from you case.

I don't think that I distracted others from my case... What I was trying to do was first of all figure out what the case on me was, and then I tried to prove the weakness and the flaws in it. It wasn't me trying to dismiss it altogether.

Tried to put more suspicion on someone else.

Again, am I not supposed to do that? Even if I did say that I wasn't scum and offered good evidence for it, what good would it be if I didn't list someone that I suspected?

again, trying to say: "here, don't pay attention to my case, look at theirs!

See above. I wasn't trying to distract others, but rather show them that even if they thought that I was scummy, there are others out there that are even scummier.

[DedicatedScribe]

*yawn* I hate the end of a day.

I seem to be unable to read Horrordude's posts like I wanted to...

I ISO'd Crypto... my main suspect, and made a list of his actions.

ISO 1: Vote RayFrost - Random Vote, nothing scummy about that
ISO 5: Unvote RayFrost, Vote Cirno - Over an alt. issue... I'll let that one pass because I think it was probably a joke
ISO 13: Get's "midly scummy vibes" from me - I call bullshit on that one
ISO 14: Unvotes Cirno, Vote me - Based on the "Mildly Scummy Vibes"
ISO 21: Tries to convince Ythan to wagon on me
ISO 22: Ythan doesn't, so he reposts the same bullshit post
ISO 30: Unvotes me, votes Beater - Doesn't give a reason for it
ISO 31: Asks why saint unvoted me, when he unvoted me 1 post before that
ISO 41: Seems to be trying to rush the lynch
ISO 46: Unvotes Beater, Votes Richard - I like this move, but I think he did it because of the pre-existing bandwagon
ISO 49: FOS Ythan... no reason for that
ISO 57: FOS Saint... gives saint shit about bandwagoning when he is doing it as well
ISO 61: Unvotes Richard, votes me based off of his magic "Scum Chart"
ISO 75: FOS Cyanide for a dumbass reason.

And with that

Vote: Crypto

maybe he's distancing! (not very serious comment)

[DedicatedScribe]

EBWOP: oh nvm, it's here. Brb if I have enough time to get everything together.

[Netopalis]

Cirno has requested replacement. Musher has failed to pick up his PM. Both will be replaced.

[Ythan]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

[horrordude0215]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

Yes... there's a lot of reasons that someone would replace out, the least of which would be that they got a scum role.

[Ythan]

Shouldn't you be distancing?

[horrordude0215]

I don't have to worry about anything like that because I'm obv. town

[DedicatedScribe]

lol thanks for the vote!

Oh yea. I remember this. I called it a towntell.

However, I don't like that farside is avoiding the PR question... while it may not give us much to go on, anything is useful at this point.

Unvote and vote farside22

This shows horrordude to be inexperienced. Noted.

Um.. and I think this is about the only time in the game where premature votes are acceptable.

That's what I thought, although that could just be my newbiness talking

Ah, the ol' crying "noob" strategy. A thread should be pinned somewhere so new guys will understand its ineffectiveness.

Horrordude, why did you feel the need to explain that anything was better than nothing before voting?

I'm confused by the question... could you rephrase it please?

It seems that he said it so he wouldn't be persecuted for voting for such flimsy reasons.

EBWOP:

Unvote

Not scumtell, but noobtell...

I just did a reread, and right now I have a slight FOS on Richard. While I know I was encouraging people to answer his question (and I'm sure I'll draw fire for this), I find his question rather scummy, in hindsight. It seems like he wants to find out what would happen if a cop WERE to investigate him and get a guilty read.

I think horrordude learned something. This would explain the contradiction. I don't see him as scummy still at this point.

Okay, what vibes from me are scummy?

Smiley in this posts reads to me as attempt to reduce the impact of the case indirectly.

Or maybe I just like smileys!

Ythan, why do you believe this is a scumtell?

Btw, horrordude, gimme that link you offered.

EBWOP: Make that GHP, not GHIP.

Horrordude is very fond of smileys. Even when not related to an attack on him.

@crypto - Could you please explain your vote in Post 43? Was it about the whole alt thing?

Yes. It was a joke. My first serious vote was the vote for horrordude. That FOS sticks, but Beater needs to straighten up.

Your first serious vote was off of vibes? Really?

Fos: crypto

The only reason why I don't have a vote on you is because Richard is a lot scummier right now IMO

Then one you're attacking for being based on a vibe.

How am I attacking him? I just said that I find it shady that he has a vote based on "vibes"

Restatement: You attacked him: you FoSed him, and called him the second most likely scum in the game.

Richard is still my #1 suspect for scum right now, and his responses to the pressures on him seem to support my theory. As of right now, I think he's the best lynch

Horrordude, is this in reply to something?

He was suspicious and when Richard became the wagon, he votes, and then unvotes when called out AGAIN.

I was suspicious of Richard... I still am (slightly). However, I didn't unvote when called out, I unvoted when he claimed a PR... sorry if I don't like lynching important roles

Valid defense.

You still unvoted earlier in the thread when called upon

Please show me that post

Your original vote on Richard seems to me as an attempted distraction from your wagon.

I didn't pay too much attention to my wagon, because I didn't think that it would happen. (Just a feeling I had) My vote on Richard was legit

Also, why do you believe Richard's claim?

This has already been said by others. He seemed really eager to prove us wrong on his wagon, so his claim sorta makes sense. And it's more of a precaution than anything

Still valid.

y r u so skumy

I'm scummy because I temporarily took my vote off of a claimed PR? Are you trying to get me lynched?

Vote: Crypto

OMGUS?

Not OMGUS... I have a reason for voting for him

Not OMGUS...Ythan, really? I suppose it could be a disguised OMGUS. So no matter.

Wow

Lynch me if you want, you'll just be 1 less villager away from winning. Of course, I know crypto's been out for my blood since the beginning of the game, mainly without reason, and my lack of sleep when posting that just gave him an opportunity to go in for the kill

As for my defense, I can only claim noob. I still am getting used to the site and sorry if my strategy is flawed or whatever

Unvote

until I can get a chance to reread and see if anyone is particularly scummy.

my lack of sleep when posting that just gave him an opportunity to go in for the kill

Lack of sleep is your excuse for saying, "Something tells me that Riddick's daykill was a test on WRP. and needless to say, he failed miserably"?

No, lack of sleep is my excuse for misreading the situation.

I don't feel like explaining myself to you anymore... It's not like it'll change your mind. I could claim cop and you'd still try and lynch me

These both are terrible defenses, which is why votes continue to pile onto you. Understand? Even the weakest of attacks (and I'm not calling the attack weak, as I'm only reading the ones Horrordude has quoted) gain power if the defense against them is terrible.

Something tells me that Riddick's daykill was a test on WRP. and needless to say, he failed miserably.

Vote: WRP_Beater

Why do you think this?

Well looking back, of course I don't think this any more... I was half asleep when I read through, and I was an idiot and didn't read through again before I posted

Certainly idiotic (sorry). I dunno about this one. I'm sure votes came on you because of that attack.

If someone would be glad to explain the reason for the bandwagon on me, that'd be great.

There's an issue over a smiley that I used... I used it because he said that I was giving him "mildly scummy vibes". I asked the question and used the smiley because in my opinion, I hadn't done anything to warrant those vibes.

Horrordude, why aren't you trying to defend yourself?

I'm trying, but it's not working so well. I misread one situation and casted a vote on it, which I promptly unvoted because of it, and suddenly I'm more suspicious than anyone else. Basically, I know I'm about to be lynched, and it doesn't matter what I say, everyone's gonna gang up on me anyways.

I will however, make a case on Crypto in a minute.

Sigh. You seem to understand a big point of the attack pretty well, but not its scale.
And making a case on Crypto doesn't help...its outwardly trying to divert attention.

Re: Horror's Case

Iso. 5: A joke vote during RVS is not something you righteously "let . . . pass." It is, after all, a joke vote during RVS.
Iso. 13: Why? Gut reads are scummy? Congratulations! You've just condemned every player on this site who plays by any degree of gut at all whatsoever—which is nearly every person on the site.
Iso. 21: Yes, and your problem is . . . ? Why are you only opposed to wagons when they (attempt to) land on you?
Iso. 22:
Iso. 30: Voting without reason is not a scum tell. Nice try.
Iso. 31: I assume you are calling me a hypocrite—by implication, at least, because you apparently don't have the nerve to make the case outright. Huh. So I'm not allowed to ask someone why they did something, just because I did the same thing? You're not a big fan of scum hunting, are you?
Iso. 41: If you say so.
Iso. 46: Why do you like the move? What does your liking this specific move have to do with my alignment? Why do you think I just did it for the wagon? Was my reason not good enough? Why is doing it for the wagon a scum tell (in this situation)?
Iso. 49: That was a facetious FOS, and it was explained. Do your homework.
Iso. 57: I didn't wagon mindlessly like he did. I also didn't focus solely on players being wagoned, as you

just

proved by castigating me for voting for you: I was the only one who took that much interest in your scumminess.
Iso. 61: You don't think I have reasons?
Iso. 75: Why is it a dumbass reason?

Speaking of cases, reasons, and bandwagons, what the hell have you been doing all game? I'm looking through your iso. and I'm not seeing much.

HYPOCRITE!!1!

Even better is that you haven't done much until

now

. Waiting till you've got a rapidly growing wagon on you to make your case and then doing it on the guy who's been pushing your lynch all along . . . well, you know where I'm going with this.

ISO 5: I wasn't trying to imply that, so don't try and make it seem that way
ISO 13: I wasn't trying to say that Gut reads are scummy... I'm just saying that I hadn't done anything do deserve that read
ISO 21: I don't mind wagons on me most of the time... I was just saying it was a bullshit thing to try and say that Ythan is suspicious of me, when I didn't see any hint of it at all previously
ISO 22: What? It was a redundatant statement... I think that Ythan had saw it and then chose to ignore it.
ISO 30: It may not be a good scum tell, but it's not a very pro-town thing to do, don't you think?
ISO 31: I was calling you a hypocrite. Why you didn't ask yourself the same question, because if you did something and then asked a question of someone who did the same thing, why shouldn't you have to answer the question? (I think that question made sense... if not tell me and I can rephrase it)
ISO 41: "Why isn't he dead yet?" Nope, that's not trying to convince people to bandwagon, is it?
ISO 46: You ask a lot of questions.
1. I like the move because I think that Richard is scummy as well, and therefore I would support a Richard Lynch.
2. It doesn't have anything to do with your alignment... I probably should have left my feelings out of it.
3. I think you did it because you were going to try and get a mislynch (or you were bussing).
4. I didn't see you really give a good reason.
5. See number 3
ISO 49. Looking back, I agree with you there. Exclude that one from the list.
ISO 57: You took an interest in my scumminess? You admitted that you didn't have any evidence to go off of!
ISO 61: You haven't really explained any good ones
ISO 75: You immediately dismiss the possibility that you are scum because, well, it's you. I'm not buying it

I'll address this separately if I have to, since I don't have hours of time here, thus my wall posts.

***

Horrordude, take a lesson from this mafia on defenses. You need work on that.

I still have to decide whether or not you are scum. Sorry gais. I don't want to take momentum from a wagon on scum, so let me think hard on this.

[DedicatedScribe]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

Yes... there's a lot of reasons that someone would replace out, the least of which would be that they got a scum role.

For the Ythan quote...where do you get this stuff(, Ythan)? I don't see any reason to agree with that.

Horrordude makes my point.

Shouldn't you be distancing?

What are your 3 biggest reasons for your vote on horrordude, and surety of his scumhood? I don't completely understand.

I don't have to worry about anything like that because I'm obv. town

Heh.

[DedicatedScribe]

EBWOP:

ah, sorry. People are reading my too big post.

Somone teach me how to link to specific posts?

[horrordude0215]

If I wanted to link to your post I would click the little orange letter next to the timestamp:

(letter) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: 664

Link to your post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#2144046

I'll give you the link to the game in a minute... have to find it

[horrordude0215]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13277

I replaced in N1 as doc.

[horrordude0215]

I don't have to worry about anything like that because I'm obv. town

Heh.

Yes, that was meant as a joke.

Unrelated to the game: In reply to the end of your large post, thank you. Thanks for not just telling me that I'm scummy as hell and need to be lynched, but for teaching me how I can help better my strategy and everything. (Even if you do vote for me, the advice was really good and it's really appreciated)

[RayFrostWikiManager]

Taking a sick day today. Will probably post tomorrow.

[DedicatedScribe]

Glad to/hope I help(ed).

And thx for the info.

Ythan, I asked for the top 3 reasons you believe horrordude should be lynched today.

I also asked why you thought smilies was a scumtell, especially since horrordude abuses them throughout most of his posts.

Horrordude, I also asked if one of those posts I quoted was in reply to something.

[Riddick]

He voted farside in a serious manner for one thing that was only vaguely scummy, if at all. That's what I meant by premature.

Riiight. But you didn't say that. At all.

Yes, but at the time of my initial posts regarding him, I did not find him to be scummy. The quote I was responding to essentially said that we should lynch him b/c he is a stupid noob, saying it would "set him straight." I disagreed.

Yes, okay.

I dislike that you find me to be scum yet refuse to provide evidence of scummy things I have done. Unless you count the only things you've reacted to regarding me to be scummy, in which case I'm thoroughly confused, as I don't see how they are scummy.

Why do you dislike that? And of course I count them, I quoted them for a reason. Your explanation for the FOS is weird, it definitely doesn't seem that's what you were implying with the original statement, at all. But hey, I'm not voting you so it's all good for the moment!

I think Horror might be town, actually. His responses seem genuine and I get an honest vibe from him.

[Riddick]

Farside why do you think Crypto scum would make that post if he's not town? And tbf Crypto's matching my meta of him atm, so I think he's town for that reason.

I don't see a town person saying that what WRP stated is a paraphrasing of a PM. Do you see it as a paraphrasing?

I didn't even notice the first time, but it's not a paraphrase of anything in my pm anyway.

I don't find his explanation to be great or anything but I don't think it's enough to make me want to lynch him. There are certainly imo far scummier people out there that should be lynched.

[Riddick]

I didn't notice the first time, that is to say I didn't really notice that what crypto said wasn't actually true, I don't really pay attention to stuff like that in the role pm.

[jbernier93]

He voted farside in a serious manner for one thing that was only vaguely scummy, if at all. That's what I meant by premature.

Riiight. But you didn't say that. At all.

Well, that's what I've been trying to say this whole time.

I dislike that you find me to be scum yet refuse to provide evidence of scummy things I have done. Unless you count the only things you've reacted to regarding me to be scummy, in which case I'm thoroughly confused, as I don't see how they are scummy.

Why do you dislike that? And of course I count them, I quoted them for a reason. Your explanation for the FOS is weird, it definitely doesn't seem that's what you were implying with the original statement, at all. But hey, I'm not voting you so it's all good for the moment!

Because I don't like being called "definitely scum" without there being evidence for it. And you may not be voting me, but you might as well be.

[farside22]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

Not really I have seen both do scum and town ask for replacement. I think it depends on the situation (example too much pressure) if someone ask for replacement it tends to be scum.