Newbie 920: Mafia in Newbietown (Game over! Town wins!)

[Zachrulez]

11th vote count of day 1:

Legions - 2 (Julano, mariomaster777)
Carl Sagan - 2 (Mcgriddle, Unsight)
Netopalis - 1 (Carl Sagan)
Mcgriddle - 1 (Netopalis)

Not voting (FluffyGiggles, Legions, Fiyr)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

DL is March 16 at 9am central.

[Netopalis]

Griddle: He's referring to this in my first post.

However, if I am in the mafia, I will be playing to win.

[McGriddle]

Griddle: He's referring to this in my first post.

However, if I am in the mafia, I will be playing to win.

Oh... Alright. I don't see how that is anything to be taken heavily lol.

[Netopalis]

Yeah, that's my reaction. Not really getting why this is such a big deal. Still, I'm not convinced he's scum either.

[Fiyr]

I am sorry about how jumbled and disorganised my last post was, but please try and respond to every point directed towards you! Thanks!

This is not very good so don't get your hopes up.

Carl Sagan-

It seems like he immeadiantly opposes Netopalis because he is an IC. He then built a case off his initial feeling.

Remember that for a Newbie game we just want to provide an example of how a game functions with the basic mechanics explained. You can't possibly cover it all, so don't try to do so.

The energy spent by town can't be replaced, it's really theft given the scope of the role.

This is confusing. The quote he makes dosen't seem to fit with what he says underneath.

Insult added to injury makes you a liability to town...

I don't agree with this so much. I don't see why you think this.

I'll be here if you think of anything else. Likewise, if town does have a doctor, please give me some protection from these guys?

I believe this is a joke, but i may be mistaken. (???)

"My vote for Netopolis may seem overly strict in the interpretation of the rules, but as mariomaster777 points out, actual evidence is hard to come by and we must end a life."

This is good.

"A townie saying he would play Mafia to it's fullest, and having the experience this townie has. A vote for Netopolis weeds out a wolf among we newbie sheep."

This is not.

I disagree with many points he makes but it seems like that may be due to his playacting. -.- This makes it hard to get a read on him.
For now he is leaning scummy, but not enough to place a vote.

FluffyGiggles-

I can agree with most of the answers to the begining Q's

I believe the only thing I haven't responded to is this:

I'm not really buying the "my defences were actually attacks"

It seems to me that nothing I say will convince you. Why is it that you don't believe me? I defend whom i believe is town. I attack whom I believe to be scum. But, I also attack cases I believe are bad. It dosen't matter if the case is not on me. This holds true for minor accusations as well.

All together, 5 posts. Each one has a good amount of content but I am still noticing a lack of FluffyG's presence. Mostly town read though.

Julano:

"E) If someone doesn't answer a question, does that make them scum, scummy, or just annoying?"

"E. Yes"

Ummm......~.~ very helpful....

Normal amount of posting. Very little in each post statistically, but good content.

*Subtly ignores the fact that FlufflyGiggles has said nothing either, but because of the awesome username will never be voted for by me.*

This unsettles me, even as a joke you probably shouldn't say stuff like this.

Didn't really contribute much useful content in the begining, got better slowly.

Overall, townish read.

Legions-

Definitly gone for a while. Last post was Thursday, Feb 25

There isn't much reason for him to lurk so i'm guessing it's RL (real life) reasons. Not much good content but it was early in the game. Major buddying with the IC who found him suspicious. Ignored Unsights questions. Blanket agreement with Netopalis' standings.

Overall, nuetral leaning scum or lazy/unhelpful town.

MarioMaster777-

Put a lot of thought into answers for everyone's questions. Clearly puts forth effort.
Focused, postes content completely of his own.
Overall good content, town read.

McGriddle-

"If I were town I would defend myself, or if I am REALLY desperat I would claim a power role under the judgement that we could possibly lynch actual scum that day, and the night kill would be spent on me if I were a Vanilla Townie in this situation. "

I personally, dislike this. What if you out the real power role unnecessarily?

Lots of joking, not that much content despite high # of posts. Not big problem though cuz:
"Sorry I don't post much as I have college, and somehow managed to get myself involved in like 8 games -.-* I try to answer all questions, and leave my 2 cents in here and there when I read over things. "

Overall nuetral read, slightly suspicious.

Netopalis-

High amount of posting, pretty good content.
Suggests that we check his other games quite often.

Some people swear by it. I don't personally put a huge amount of stock into it, but to each their own. It can be valuable in some instances.

Caught you red-handed.

*shrugs* It's how I play. Again, check my other games

I can't see scum motivation behind this but you

are

contradicting yourself which is scummy in itself + my brain is like, slow-mo right now.

Unsight

Keeps the game fun (joking around) but still posts good content.
Posts frequently, stays updated.
Makes good cases, dosen't jump to conclusions/votes
Doesen't contradict herself.
Town read.

Town

Mariomaster777
Unsight
|
FluffyGiggles
Julano
|
McGriddle
Carl Sagan
Netopalis
Legions

[Netopalis]

For what it's worth, the stuff that I've cited my previous games on are as follows:

My usage of questions rather than random votes, which is an unusual position and

My usage of a disclaimer at the start of a game.

When I said that I don't put much stock in meta, I meant that I don't put much stock in the method by which people usually use meta. Usually, a player goes and reads another players' previous game and determines whether the current play is similar or dissimilar to the previous one, and then determines what that means to alignment. To me, that's kinda silly, given that it's ridiculously easy to change your playstyle or, more importantly, to not change your playstyle. However, there are certain things that previous game references can be used for - things that are done in every game regardless of alignment being one of the biggest ones. I hope that makes sense?

[Netopalis]

EBWODP: Note that I said that it can be valuable in some instances. This is the some instance.

[Netopalis]

EBWOTP: EBWODP means "Edit by way of double post".

[mariomaster777]

Wanted to hop on real quick to see people's responses to my post.

@Fiyr: I noticed you asked a question of me a while back. No, my response to Netopalis in 184 was not meant to be sarcasm. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

No need to apologize for your posting style. Just sharing my thoughts. You will notice that I myself triple posted when I made that huge block of text, so I should take my own advice. Also, thanks for the tip on the "isolation feature."

@ Netopalis. I would be glad to share what I mean in greater detail. But please permit me more time to respond. My notes only vaguely talk about my gut reactions, and I will likely need to reread the conversation back on pages 7-9 to fully understand what I meant. Frankly I shouldn't be on this website right now. Lots of studying to do.

And with that, I'm definitely getting off the Internet.

[Netopalis]

Take your time, we're still early in the day, and you've been more useful than most.

[FluffyGiggles]

Totals so far:

Confessed Mafia: 0
Confessed may be Mafia: Netopolis
Confessed Townies: everyone else

Please quote back any materials, anywhere that state the IC must make this confession during the game. Let us be specific, this was a statement after the start of game.
There are no rules for a random voting period or "just insulting one another" period. It is a matter of life and death of the town and every statement in-game is important.
If you have stated this is a requirement without finding that exact requirement outlined in the instructions given to ICs, you might be overreaching in your conclusions.

Just wondering, do you feel that having to read attacks on a single player that are mostly confounding and never seem to change would be detrimental to town energy?

FluffyGiggles-

I can agree with most of the answers to the begining Q's

I believe the only thing I haven't responded to is this:

I'm not really buying the "my defences were actually attacks"

It seems to me that nothing I say will convince you. Why is it that you don't believe me? I defend whom i believe is town. I attack whom I believe to be scum. But, I also attack cases I believe are bad. It dosen't matter if the case is not on me. This holds true for minor accusations as well.

All together, 5 posts. Each one has a good amount of content but I am still noticing a lack of FluffyG's presence. Mostly town read though.

Legions-

Definitly gone for a while. Last post was Thursday, Feb 25

There isn't much reason for him to lurk so i'm guessing it's RL (real life) reasons. Not much good content but it was early in the game. Major buddying with the IC who found him suspicious. Ignored Unsights questions. Blanket agreement with Netopalis' standings.

Overall, nuetral leaning scum or lazy/unhelpful town.

MarioMaster777-

Put a lot of thought into answers for everyone's questions. Clearly puts forth effort.
Focused, postes content completely of his own.
Overall good content, town read.

1: It certainly seems like there was a bit of a focus on Netopalis. Though, in your defence, a lot of the bad arguments in this thread were against Netopalis ... and raised by Sagan.

2: When was Legions buddying with Netopalis?

3: What does 'posts content completely of his own' mean? Do you feel that any other players are posting content that are not completely of their own?

[Julano]

Not really sure what to say right now. My vote remains on Legions; he needs to talk. If not I think he would be the right lynch, since otherwise we'll never be able to tell either way.

Netopalis, you seem to have a high posting rate but I can't remember anything you've said lately except defending yourself. Who are your suspicions at the moment?

[Zachrulez]

Legions has not picked up his prod. I will commence a search for a replacement.

[Netopalis]

You, Sagan and Legions are all possible scum.

Sagan is possibly scum for his ridiculously strange attack pattern and distracting style.

Legions is possibly scum for lurking and buddying.

You (Julano) are possibly scum for very convenient attacks. If you note, almost all of your posts are questions, and many of your statements are things that can be interpreted in multiple ways, at least one of which will be safe. Take, for example, the following quote:

2/5 of these are mafia.
Fiyr, mariomaster, Carl Sagan, Legions, McGriddle.

That's a fairly broad statement. Given the fact that we can only reasonably expect to have, at most, 4 lynches, you're fairly safe in that not all of those people can flip. Also, you seem to keep hammering the same point - lots of posts, but little content in them. While this is a valid scumtell, I'm curious as to why you keep using it to the exclusion of others.

[Julano]

The quote is part of my narrowing down process. Questions are to get new information where I want it.

To the exclusion of other scumtells? Voting patterns I am keeping track of but have little to say about so far. Other than that, I don't think I actually know of any 'tells'. Tells implies a slip-up, which might or might not happen. General posting (/speaking) is what I have found most effective, so is what I'm concentrating on.

How long have you suspected me and why say it now?

[Netopalis]

Quite some time now. This qoute is from right after the questions.

Julano:
Julano is a bit of a minor concern. Her initial responses seem to be straddling the fence or show an attempt to restrict giving out information. Of particular note is this answer:

"Logic. Well, I guess it's gut actually, but that's pretty much based on logic anyway"

Note the attempt to have it both ways. It seems like she thought that I had a preconceived answer and that she was more concerned with finding that answer than giving an honest one. Minor scum read.

[...]

In summary:

Town reads:
FluffyGiggles
Unisght
Fiyr
MarioMaster

Null reads:
McGriddle

Scum reads:
Legions
Carl Sagan
Julano

[Julano]

Back to the questions...
Then you changed your mind? Or were you just saying that?

[Netopalis]

Sorry, I forgot to answer the "what other scumtells" thing.


The following is not an exhaustive list, but it's a good place to start:

Lurking - Already described
Active lurking - Popping in occasionally to just say fluffy stuff
Overanxiousness - A person getting overly nervous over a few votes
Overeagerness - Trying too hard to be town. This isn't the "too townie" fallacy, it's someone who is obviously

trying

to look like town.
Buddying - Saying things to please the other people in the game, like Legion's "But I love you!" thing from earlier.
Rabid attacks - Tunneling against one player and making vicious attacks from nothing - scum often do this to try to get a pro-town player lynched.
Wishywashiness - Failing to take a solid stance on anything

[Netopalis]

Meh, I never really changed my mind. I did lessen my scum read on you significantly since there, but I still think that you are potentially scum, although far behind Legions and Sagan.

[Netopalis]

Oh, I see, the whole "Consider yourself put back in the town category" post. Yeah, I overstated my position. It did give you town points in my mind, but given the lack of strong suspects...

[Unsight]

Oh, I see, the whole "Consider yourself put back in the town category" post. Yeah, I overstated my position. It did give you town points in my mind, but given the lack of strong suspects...

What defines a "strong suspect?" That is, what are you looking for?

More to the point, why aren't you digging for what you want?

Julano said it pretty well here:

Netopalis, you seem to have a high posting rate but I can't remember anything you've said lately except defending yourself.

If I step back through all your posts, I see a lot (and I mean a LOT) of posts where you do nothing but defend yourself or post general information. The ratio of scumhunting to defending posts is something like 1 to 6. With 76 posts up to now, that's not an insignificant amount of time spent on something other than scum hunting.

And so far your scum hunting amounts to a half-hearted pass against McGriddle in between proverbial hugs, a revenge accusation against Carl Sagan (based on a "minor scum read"), and an attack on Julano which you immediately waver on as being because of a "lack of strong suspects."

You just listed wishywashiness as a scumtell and from my perspective,

all

of that is pretty wishy washy.

FoS: Netopalis

[Netopalis]

I wouldn't have had to defend myself so often if Sagan hadn't made so many stupid and ridiculous attacks.

As for "digging for what I want", the problem is that I'm still not entirely sure where to dig just yet. Pushing Sagan seems to keep getting the same crap about "energy", Legions isn't present and Julano is a light suspect at best. McGriddle...I'm having trouble reading. I suppose I probably should have pressed Griddle more - I didn't because I was pressing him somewhere else and I was worried about tunneling based on playstyle rather than alignment. I'll reread him in isolation, though, and put together a post.

[Netopalis]

McGriddle:

You seem eager to buddy in the early game and seem to post a lot of fluff. What's with this? Why did you feel the need to make so many posts that don't actually say anything? Also, your attacks on Sagan seem to be a bit hesitant. You don't provide a lot of justification aside from the obvious and don't elaborate on much. Could you please succinctly and explicitly describe your case on Sagan?

[McGriddle]

McGriddle:

1. You seem eager to buddy in the early game and seem to post a lot of fluff. What's with this?
2. Why did you feel the need to make so many posts that don't actually say anything?
3. Also, your attacks on Sagan seem to be a bit hesitant. You don't provide a lot of justification aside from the obvious and don't elaborate on much. Could you please succinctly and explicitly describe your case on Sagan?

1. Well, I will admit, at the beginning I am usually a buddy-buddy type of player, and as it progresses so does my not so buddy-buddy (Is there a better word for that? lol) personality takes over. But I am a little biased on liking you because of your avatar so it was easy for me to not be a douche at the beginning of the game. And it was RVS mostly so there was no reason for me to be an ass. I also had like 12 games, and I couldn't really focus on any one game at a time (Fixed now) which segways me to -
2. I post a lot of fluff when nothing is really going on in the town, or if I am getting formalities and crap out of the way. I post fluff (btw not intentionally) when I have a lot going on and skim a few posts here or there. I usually don't post fluff if somebody pisses me off enough to get enraged and flip a little. I am a terrible scum-hunter I kknow this. Which segways to -
3. I didn't like the fact that he came in here, posted a lot of controversial things and then left. I am also (about 40% of me) convinced he is scum based off of gut reaction. I think when you pull out crap in a post that isn't a slip or a tell then more than likely you are scum. He has done that to you I know for sure.

[Fiyr]

When I said that I don't put much stock in meta, I meant that I don't put much stock in the method by which people usually use meta. ... I hope that makes sense?

I see what you mean. In the quote of you I posted before, it seemed somewhat like you meant your playstyle

EBWOTP: EBWODP means "Edit by way of double post".

I see, one mystery solved! Thanks!

@Fiyr: I noticed you asked a question of me a while back. No, my response to Netopalis in 184 was not meant to be sarcasm. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

It's fine, just over the internet it's hard to tell without a voice. Wanted to make sure.

@FluffyGiggles

1: It certainly seems like there was a bit of a focus on Netopalis. Though, in your defence, a lot of the bad arguments in this thread were against Netopalis ... and raised by Sagan.

Do you mean in that particular post, or in the whole game?

2: When was Legions buddying with Netopalis?

But I love ya man. Why is this exactly? Maybe I can explain myself?

3: What does 'posts content completely of his own' mean? Do you feel that any other players are posting content that are not completely of their own?

This is a bit difficult to explain what I meant so just beare with me. I don't mean this in a bad way towards anyone else either o.k.?
When a newbie joins a game, they build off of other peoples' posts and go from there.(I know I do this) But most of what he says is new things and new questions. I know other newbies have done this in this game too but, his just popped out at me.

Not really sure what to say right now.

Why not? Do you have any questions or comments on either of the people analysis (one of which

you

requested)?

"E) If someone doesn't answer a question, does that make them scum, scummy, or just annoying?"

"E. Yes"

Ummm......~.~ very helpful....

Any comment towards this?

Anything towards any of what I said!? I feel like you just requested this analysis to stall suspicion on you and maybe, make it look like your not tunneling on Legions who has vanished in a puff of smoke!

post 295: While I agree, I also see others who do less (not you, mario, FluffyG.)

Okay, I need to go cool down. Ciao.[/i]