Mini 933: LRCM - Broken, restart running in new thread

[Nikanor]

CONFIRM!

[Nikanor]

Hehe, I'm fast. First on the playerlist, first to confirm. Go me!
Speaking of players, I need to do a mandatory wave to the people I know in the audience.
Hi Seven!
*Looks down the list*
*Keeps going down*
Hi Amished!
Hi Ray Frost!
Hi DTM!
Hi Zazie!
I think I like this player list. I think. I don't know half the people, but I'm sure they will be nice enough.

[Nikanor]

UK pre-inned. You did not. So logic would have it that you are the one stalking her.

[Nikanor]

The one on the left is you, the one on the right is UK?
Those kittens don't look uncertain at all, though....

[Nikanor]

No, a stalker's dream is always to be by the stalkee's side, so that avatar is good. I approve.

[Nikanor]

Yes. The four of us together will devour the fishy fishy fish man.

O_O

[Nikanor]

the mod writes out how we gut him alive and devour his flesh.

I kinda want to see this now.

You gut him alive and devour his flesh. And then you realize that you're allergic to fish, so you die too. Sucks to be you.

[Nikanor]

You gut him alive and devour his flesh. And then you realize that you're allergic to fish, so you die too. Sucks to be you.

Shirly you can't be serious!

[Nikanor]

Anyway,

Vote: The Mafia Group of Mini 933: Linked Role Chaos Mafia

Guaranteed win.

This is actually a good idea.

Vote: The Mafia Group of Mini 933: Linked Role Chaos Mafia.

[Nikanor]

Voting EdFrost is a scumtell?

[Nikanor]

If, purely in the interest of saving your time, I were to tell you that I am town and that your experimental scumtell is therefore false, thus saving you the time and effort of having to test it thoroughly, would you believe me?
I'm just curious.

[Nikanor]

Is Miles an alt?

[Nikanor]

Show me you are town through your actions. So far I have you on the scummy end of my radar. If you post with genuine townie intent (because you are indeed a townie), i'll eventually get off you and move to the real scum. If you ARE scum, however, well, first I'll be happy to have another point in favor of my theory, and I doubt you'll convince me you aren't scum.

Oh, so you wouldn't believe me, then. It's too bad. You could have saved yourself some time if only you were able to believe me. Oh well!
For the record, I would have believed me.

So, good luck ^-^.

Thanks!

Also, your post looks to me like you are using 'guilty until proven innocent' logic. Is this correct? What is your stance on such logic?

[Nikanor]

That hurts me mister Nikky.

So that's a yes.
At least now if you're scum I know that you're really bad at hiding things. :/

[Nikanor]

MY stance is that it is the best logic.

And since I use it, everyone else should as well.

It's too bad I wasn't talking to you.

[Nikanor]

How did you get into this game, then? Our mod required a number of completed games before you could be in.

He gave me outside experience.

[Nikanor]

Zazie is obv lyncher to the mod.
Seriously though, as this is linked role mafia, I doubt that there will be a non-even number of roles in this game. If the mod DOES have a role, Zazie is probably lyncher to him, so I'd suggest not lynching him.
Roboto's hypocrisy is suspicious, but I'd like to hear at least something from everyone before putting down a serious vote. I doubt the lurkers are all scum, but I'm sure there are one or two in there, and I'd like to hear what they have to say about the current situation before placing a vote.

[Nikanor]

>_>
<_<
So basically a policy lynch, yeah?

I just realised that you were talking about what I said about not all lurkers being scum. I'm not saying that I think you think all lurkers are scum. I'm saying that at least one of our non-posters is scum, and that that is what I think.

[Nikanor]

In that logic, wouldn't you want to lynch the Zazier?

Why would we lynch a lyncher whose target is known when there are more dangerous scum out there? You make no sense.

Also, something I forgot in my linked-role even-number-of-players theory: There are two mods! Such an oversight. I must flagellate myself for this. *Self-flagellate*

Anyway, I have no

major

scumspects yet. We still need to hear more from the less active players. I work mostly by PoE, after all.

[Nikanor]

Oh yeah, Miles? Would you like to share with the group why you know this?

@Disco: Shaddup. I'll talk about whatever I damn well please.

[Nikanor]

I thought I had posted this, but I guess not:
Those saying that we shouldn't lynch the mod because it's a 'waste of a day' are probably scum. It's typical scum behaviour to say those things, because they want to appear as pro-town as possible. In their minds, they think that wasting a day by lynching the mod is anti-town, but the reality is that it is more pro-town to explore every threat that might be present in this town, which includes the mod.
Seven and dku stick out in my mind as those who said that lynching the mod is a waste of a day. Roboto did as well, iirc.
Because of this, I'm going to

Unvote.

Vote: danakillsu if danakillsu.votes < 5, else Vote: DiscoRoboto.

Hopefully this will make the mod move my vote to dku if someone else unvotes him. Until then, my vote goes on Roboto.

[Nikanor]

I have reason to believe Miles is telling the truth.

Not sure who suggested we kill the mod, but it's a stupid idea.

For reference.

[Nikanor]

I shouldn't have said that Zazie is out to lynch the mod! Now I don't know if I gave danakillsu this idea or not. :/ I'm inclined to say that dku is scum, simply because he didn't claim a presence/absence of abilities. It makes it look like a fakeclaim.

[Nikanor]

So dku, you're claiming vanilla lynchee, right?
I don't like that dku didn't claim

everything

in one post. I also don't like the fact that dku didn't totally flip out on Miles and vote him, or even pump him for information. If I were a lynchee, I would be completely paranoid.

[Nikanor]

Okay, so I iso'd Fishy on a hunch and here is what I found:

---

vote: DTMaster. His post is trying altogether to hard to look like a normal jokey part of the RVS.

I don't agree. I think it

is

a normal jokey part of the RVS.

Particularly the last paragraph. He's trying to make

us

think he's one of

us

.

Lol @ irony (talking about the bolded pronoun, here).

Also, no one votes me and gets away with it.

It looks like you put this here just in case your actual accusation didn't look good enough. If you were town, you would actually take credit and stand up for the points you make. Instead, you use this to distance yourself from your points against DTM.

@Miles: in 168, you FoSsed EdFrost. If I understand it, that was because of the same post UK and SP have criticised. Why is that post (144) scummy?

Myself, that post wouldn't have jumped out at me. Reading it knowing that other people see scumtells there, there are things which I can convince myself I think you are talking about.

What does the second paragraph even mean?

Lynching the mod seems like a good way to waste a day. And possibly get rid of flavour or votecounts or something. I really can't see it being protown, unless we have very compelling info.

I've already discussed this. I missed that Fishy had done it as well, though.

unvote, vote: MilesPrower

unvote, vote: danakillsu

Wishy-washy voting. This is the third time Fishy has voted in five posts.

I agree that dana's reason for his townread is poor, and my immediate reaction to a three player townlist with no scumreads is that it's an odd an possibly scummy way to start a game, as town reads are unlikely to generate discussion either about those players or about you.

Odd and

possibly

scummy? If you're not sure, why did you jump on the wagon? (Fishy's is the third vote on the dku wagon, btw).

I think his 228 and 230 are poor defences; the first is a fairly irrelevant AtE, the second an attempt to dismiss the votes on him by explaining them through the other players' overzealousness.

This is a bit better, but I don't see how poor defense = scum.

This is rolefishing. And it's the bad kind of rolefishing - it was plausible that MP would answer this, and that that would be a bad thing.

His rolefishing is explained by his role.

More strawmanning of dana's wagon here. The wagon on him is not primarily for pointing out Miles was wrong. Playing the "no idea why you're all voting me Sad" card very strongly. Open admission of wanting to know what MP is claiming.

Good point.
In iso6, Fishy unvotes.

There's no particular reason to believe dana's claim. If he really is a lynchee, there's no reason it has any bearing on his alignment. If he really is a town lynchee, that seems a very dangerous role to be around later in the game, and no way will he get killed by scum.
vote: danakillsu

More wishy-washy voting.
I don't like how in this post Fishy says both that there is no reason to believe dku's claim, then goes into hypothetical situations about what the case is if he is a lynchee. The first and second sentences clash especially. It reads as if he's saying that there is both no reason to believe dana's claim, and no reason to believe that dana is a town lynchee.

- If dana is town, he's going to be very dangerous for us later on. Getting him out of the way now is by no means a disaster. You say this is "fishy" - but why do you think it's wrong?

How is he any more dangerous later than now? Also, it feels like you're trying to convince the town that lynching dana isn't bad even if he is town, if that makes any sense. Every mislynch is a bad mislynch.

- I don't think dana's claim has much bearing on his alignment, and even if it's true he's not actually very useful. The reasons for voting him are still valid, and I'm happy for his lynch to happen.

Again, it feels as if he's trying to convince us that lynching townies isn't a bad thing.

---

Now, that said, I think that some of Fishy's attacks on dana are good points. I'm leaning scum on Fishy, but I'd like some input on my little case here before I make a decision on whether to vote him. I'm very conflicted at the moment. My mind is saying scum while my gut is saying town, and I'd like some help in sorting my thoughts out.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count please?

You guys realize that if we put dku to L-1, the day could end right now if his supposed lyncher is not on the wagon already, right?

@SocioPath: Shush you. 'Twould be nice if you actually provided content instead of fluff for a change. Your last ten posts over the past three days have provided absolutely nothing useful for us, except for 'Votecount titles mean nothing,' which I consider active lurking.

@UK: I will do it, but only because you asked so nicely.

[Nikanor]

Regarding L-1: If we have put him to L-1, we probably want him dead anyway, so his lyncher can have it if he wants. I never really cared about non killing third parties "winning"

I'm used to the game ending when a lyncher wins, but even if that doesn't happen, I'm not ready to end the day just yet. Plus, I'm greedy and don't like anyone winning but myself.

regarding Socio: That is intriguing, but actually his post on BrokenBlueprints was only half way a joke. He was using parallelism as a sarcastic method to condemn your post. read the last paragraph for the most telling part. I think he's still producing.

Oh hey, I didn't even read that. I just read the first two lines, assumed it was a joke, then moved on.

My mind is saying scum while my gut is saying town, and I'd like some help in setting up a fall guy and pushing credit onto them to avoid dedicating myself to something I might not necessarily even believe in.

You can think that if you'd like, but teamwork is better than trying to do everything by yourself. You can feel free to call me on it later if I try to put the blame for a Fishy lynch on someone else.

[Nikanor]

Kairyuu, I believe that EdFrost is voting for Blueprints.

Why thank you good sir.

[Nikanor]

Before I start this, I want to let you all know that it makes me very uncomfortable building a case without quotes, and that I probably won't be doing this again unless I really have to.

The Fishy case, consolidated:

iso1:

-Fishy votes DTM for trying too hard to appear jokey in the RVS. He cites 'He's trying to make

us

think he's one of

us

,' as the main reason for his vote. I find this ironic because of the bolded.
-The main reason for why I feel this post is scummy is because he gives a joke reason along with what seems to be a serious reason for voting. This is scummy because it makes him look like he's not willing to stand behind his point. If anyone accuses him of being scummy for the serious part, he can say it was a joke vote, and vice-versa. I believe he did this in his defense.

iso2:

-Fishy asks Miles for his reason for FoSing EdFrost, but then says that he can understand why SocioPath and UK voted for Ed?

iso3:

-He dislike's Miles's answer, and votes him for it. What I find interesting is that Fishy doesn't ask for SocioPath's or UK's reasons for voting Ed, and still assumes that they were good. This looks like Fishy is picking on the easy target, which is scummy.
-Fishy also denounces lynching the mod, which is scummy for reasons I have outlined here.

iso4:

-Fishy unvotes Miles and votes for dku without giving mention to Miles's response to his point, or lack of point, if that happens to be the case (I'm not looking it up).
-Fishy's vote for dku is the third on the wagon for what I feel is a weak reason, mostly because I don't see how poor defenses is scummy. I usually have a hard time defending myself as either alignment simply because defending oneself is WIFOM and nobody usually listens to it anyway, unless it is scummy, in which case they'll jump all over it.

iso5:

-Fishy accuses dku of rolefishing and strawmanning, both of which are valid points at the time (the rolefishing accusation is actually a towntell due to dku's claimed role). I like iso5.

iso6:

-Fishy unvotes dku because a lot has happened. I'll take this as scummy if dku flips scum.

iso7:

(copypasted from main case) -I don't like how in this post Fishy says both that there is no reason to believe dku's claim, then goes into hypothetical situations about what the case is if he is a lynchee. The first and second sentences clash especially. It reads as if he's saying that there is both no reason to believe dana's claim, and no reason to believe that dana is a town lynchee.

iso8:

"If dana is town, he's going to be very dangerous for us later on. Getting him out of the way now is by no means a disaster."
-I'm having a hard time explaining this one, but mostly it just makes me think scum. It almost feels like he knows dku will flip town.

End case.

I await your responses! There are probably more words in this one than in the other, but oh well.

[Nikanor]

However, overall, I don't see how it makes sense for us both to be scum. Could you explain that part in more detail?

I don't like the unvote he does of you in iso6. It looks... FISHY!

*Gets shot by Fishy*

Seriously though, it looks more like scum waiting to see if he should bus or not.

[Nikanor]

I'm not proposing lynching a confirmed town player. I'm proposing lynching a player who I find likely scum, and whose death won't be a disaster for the town. dana's 363 takes my "if he's town, it's no great loss" bit, and implies that I believe his claim and want to lynch him anyway. Unfortunately for that particular argument, that's nowhere in my posts. Saying that the worse case scenario isn't that bad is not tantamount to saying I'd take it given the choice, and it's not saying I believe it to be the case.

Eh, I'm mostly just making up crap in an attempt to understand/justify my gut read from that post.

When MP responded, I felt he might well be pulling things out of his ass to disguise total wagon-hopping - do you really think that's an unrealistic interpretation? Why should I have asked the others about their cases? I wasn't on him for voting Ed, but for a vote with no reasoning.

I have a problem with you only asking Miles the question. After Miles provided a bad answer, you didn't stop to think and check on UK's and SP's reasons, just to be sure theirs were actually good.
Now that I think about it, though, this probably isn't a tell.

iso 4: Not mentioning MP's response was an oversight. In fact, looking back, it's rather horrible - he followed UK and SP's hints that they were finding Ed scummy, and jumped on it. His defense is that he didn't jump on a bw? When he voted, there may as well have been a bw. He get's a renewed FoS from me. And yeah, that's a fair point, I feel silly.

Gotcha.

iso 6: If you think I'm scum with Dana, that's fine. I'll fight that battle tomorrow. For now, Dana needs lynching.

I'm not entirely sure of my read on dku, tbh. I'll cover that in another post, though.

You seem to think I'm scum who knows that my scumpartner Dana is going to flip town, which doesn't gel very well.

No, I even said in my first case that I was unsure about my opinion on you.

I notice that you don't even mention the possibility that I'm a Dana-lyncher. It doesn't seem to have crossed your mind. Why is that, given that you think I'm attacking a claimed lynchee with terrible arguments? Could it be because you know he isn't a lynchee at all?

Ouch. Actually, I say in my original case that I like your attacks on dku. Learn to read and such.

[Nikanor]

Well, he can show me why he doesn't agree, if he wants, but it seems to me he has to agree based on what he's said. But if I was mafia, why would I claim lynchee? That just wouldn't make sense. If I was mafia and fakeclaimed lynchee, I would have to realize that there could very well be a lyncher out there who would jump on my wagon as soon as possible, thinking me the real lynchee. That would just be really stupid of me.

Fear tactics. Also, lynchers are usually told the names of their lynchees.

I don't like Smashbro's post. He should have more to say than nothing at all, considering how much he missed.

----------

WAIT WHAT?!
dku claimed lyncher, lol.
dku: You played badly and so you lose. Don't be a bitch. Take it like a man and such.
I'll hammer dku once Seven stops stalling.

[Nikanor]

I just would rather keep playing this game and am trying to show people why I should. You're not giving up this game right now, so why should I?

Good point. Do you have another fake claim for us?

[Nikanor]

I said I wouldn't hammer until Seven stopped stalling. Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys.

[Nikanor]

It wasn't the hammer, but please wait for Seven to post something before ending the day. I want to see what he thinks.

[Nikanor]

I don't know what you're thinking UK, but I still think he's third party. That is what he claimed, after all. And ITT we lynch third parties.
On another note, I think that Seven is a flaker. I just checked on the Search utility and he hasn't posted elsewhere since the seventh (har har). I'll still wait for Seven, but if he gets replaced I'm just going to hammer.

[Nikanor]

It's a conspiracy theory. And I have to implicate myself to make it work. Not exactly the greatest tactic, ne?

Not really. If you did try to push it, I'd have to call you on reaching AND hypocrisy, and that just wouldn't be cool.

[Nikanor]

As I said, I'm keeping it in mind, but I'm not pushing it.

That's why I said, "If".
Hey, since I have you here, do you still think I'm scummy? I'm curious. And a bonus question: What do you think of the lurkers (smashbro and Seven in particular)?

[Nikanor]

Yay! \o/
What I was more asking was something along the lines of:
Is lurking scummy? Oui ou non?

[Nikanor]

I just realised that I don't even know why I asked that question. Please note that I don't consider 570 scumhunting.

[Nikanor]

apart from nika wanting to hear seven's thoughts for some reason

Seven has done nothing this game. I don't want to give him a free pass on the day. The only reason I'm waiting for Seven and not smashbro is because Seven promised a post, while smashbro has already made his choice to actively lurk through this game.

[Nikanor]

Oh hey, Seven posted in the post-game of another game today. I wonder why he doesn't want to post here.
I bet it's because his vapourcase isn't ready yet.

[Nikanor]

This is taking too long, and I really want to see dku's actual role.

Vote: danakillsu.

[Nikanor]

I just hammered, so you can't.

[Nikanor]

...FoS:Nikanor

FoSing a townsperson is a good survival tactic, especially now that we're going into the night phase. I'm going to have to try that next time.

[Nikanor]

Potentially saying "Hey scumbuddy, that was a bad move."

Why would she do that when she could just tell me at night?

SP, if I'm scum, my scumbuddy is blatantly obvious.

Whoooo? I need you to do all my scumhunting for me.

But, at any rate, HoS: Nikanor for that clever reply.

Thanks!

[Nikanor]

To feign towniness and suspicion on you.

YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CHANGE YOUR MIND, SOCIOPATH!

[Nikanor]

Sheesh. Not nice.
Thanks for trueclaiming, dku!

Unvote. Vote: danakillsu.

[Nikanor]

Noooo. Kyon, my lovely! I will change my avatar back to you in your honour. (Just kidding).

Vote: smashbro_of_the_SSS.

[Nikanor]

I'M SPECIFICALLY USING OLIVE SO AS NOT TO GET MODKILLED, MOD!

smasbro: If it's obvious, then I must have already given a reason for my vote, eh? (Hint: I did).

Man, olive is gross.

[Nikanor]

I'm going to make a vote on a feeling I got yesterday. This would be a Vote: Nikanor

I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me
Girl, you just don't realise
What you do to me.

By the way, I'm town. I think your efforts are better spent elsewhere. Feel free to iso me, though. It's your own time to waste, I suppose.

I assume the lovers have the ability to communicate at night, right?

This. I want a paraphrased version of everything you guys talked about (don't quote it, obv).
Also, claim role names. Before you do that, though; who wants to play a guessing game?
Asking is just a formality, of course. You are all required to do this. Please submit a guess as to the roles of DTM and smashbro before they claim role names.
I'd guess Koizumi and Kyon if Kyon wasn't already dead... I know that there are characters from Death Note in here, so maybe Light and MisaMisa?

[Nikanor]

And the award for the most useless thing possible you can say in the game goes to...

I'm actually a dingo. I eat babies.
(Now I'm sure to get that award, hehehe).

No, not at all. All we know is that if one dies, so does the other. No talking outside the thread for us.

LAME!

I didn't see anyone he was particularly going after (aside from Dana) so I can't tell if someone had a reason behind it. As for a super townie usually dying first night, I did not see anyone in particular, so I don't think that that was the reason for death.

Is it just me, or did smashbro just admit to sending in the mafia kill?

[Nikanor]

Which will take a little more work.

I want to hear more from DT.

DTM is fake-claiming lovers, obviously.
I don't see the problem. If DTM is willing to die on a case that he himself doesn't see any merit to, all the power to him.

[Nikanor]

Wat to what?
I hope it's not the first sentence, because I like my posts uncluttered by sarcasm tags, and would so hate to have that ruined for me.
If it's the second sentence, then again, I don't see why you're asking for DTM to make a case. You want smashbro dead, so it can't be to convince you. If DTM's case is good, we lynch smashbro, he flips scum, all good. If DTM's case is bad, we lynch smashbro, he flips town, DTM flips scum, and we are again all good.
I just don't see the point of you asking for a case from DTM.

[Nikanor]

As for a super townie usually dying first night, I did not see anyone in particular

This implies that you actively searched for something. I'm not going to be too concerned about this now, though.

[Nikanor]

Actually, even that has more game related potential than what you had previously said.

Aww, I guess it probably does. Oh well.

I guess I have to ask this explicitly: Why do you want DTM to make a case on smashbro?

[Nikanor]

Also, I really hope your colors are a PR, or DIE.

It's St. Patrick's Day...
I agree that olive is ugly, but I was left with no choice when Kairyuu claimed green at the beginning of the game.
Don't worry. There is only two and a half more hours to go until I can stop posting in olive.

I never explicitly said I did. I just want more comments on the subject.

But to what end?

[Nikanor]

So I claim fake lovers to Smash unprovoked? Nice theory. Given that it would assume that Smash is scum with me. Lynch one of us, and the other dies. It could be today, or tomorrow, either way it's a blood bath. Assuming 3 scum, I'd rather focus on this issue in my role:

I like my posts uncluttered by sarcasm tags, and would so hate to have that ruined for me.

Damn it DTM. Also, we're not in mylo. If there ARE three scum, one of them is a lover. It's that simple. Anything else would be imbalanced to the point of goofiness.

[Nikanor]

Come to think of it, smashbro's behaviour perfectly matches that of a lynchproof kill-immune serial killer lover. Hmmm.

[Nikanor]

Okay. :Sadface:
At least I can't be modkilled for using green now.
Can you tell us who was scum (not roles)?

[Nikanor]

Oh yeah, forgot to /in again.

[Nikanor]

YOU'RE ATTEMPTS AT

ILLUSION

SPELLING ARE BOTH NOTED AND IGNORED.

Fixed.

[Nikanor]

WIFOM!
Although out of the active players she was my highest suspect.

[Nikanor]

I LIKE living.

Die scum die.

Vote: SocioPath.

[Nikanor]

I totally knew SocioPath was a cop when he said he wasn't linked to anyone.

[Nikanor]

Can we get an update on this, please?

[Nikanor]

Role PMs will be out by tomorrow.

OI!