Mini 930:Morning People Mafia (Game Over!)

[Deer]

SSSS's (lots of S's there haha) actions certainly don't look good but I'm not willing to let my suspicions of rzhang go competely out the window just because SSSS has been scummy of late. I still think rzhang's moves with the gambit and whatnot were worse.

[havingfitz]

rzhang86 has requested replacement.

Don't like this. Could be a newbie overwhelmed by the negative attention he is getting or cornered scum not interested in putting up a fight. Since rz has dispelled the newbie factor by defending his actions and saying he had mafia experience outside of this site I'm going to lean away from the overwhelmed newbie option and towards the cornered scum. This replacement request would result in a vote for rz from me if I didn't already have my vote on him.

[jbernier93]

I've got a campout this weekend (leaving in like 20 minutes) and I'll be quite busy monday and tuesday, so I'll see what I can post, but I may or may not have any decent content over the next few days.

[havingfitz]

I wonder what the votecount is................ <sigh>

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

*sigh* I meant you're actions did nothing to help my plan. It honestly hurt it, seeing as all attention was drawn towards you afterwards, so nothing was gained.

I get that. But you're saying that you're neutral. If you are town, instead of focusing on that, try and redeem yourself instead of saying "Well, I can't prove it to you." You aren't getting lynched within the next real-life day or more, (at least, not if the town has *any* commons sense), so get out of the hole you dug. I meant giving up on anything useful. All you're doing is saying "I'm not scum but I can't prove it. Oh, and I did everything useful with FA's gambit."

Nope. I'm just trying to figure out how you think you're helping in the least bit.

I mainly didn't like the top paragraph, since I'm getting the faint smell of him saying "well, it was a good plan for us as scum, but unfortunately it got screwed up." This

As to why I unvoted, I didn't have any good reason to vote Deer, as I had no suspicions on him, but I did not consider the gambit taking place.

so, I will

vote: rzhang86

for the same reasons as the others, and the fact that he seems to be acting like he controls the game already, something scum practically are, since they know everyone else is town.

HE IS AT L-1 DO NOT VOTE AGAINST HIM YET

For starters, saying you vote for him "for the same reasons as the others" is very noncommittal, and as far as I can tell people did have different reasons for voting.

As for him acting like he controls the game, it seems more like his playstyle to me than actual control. Given that everyone finds him various shades of suspicious, he doesn't have nearly as much sway over people as your post suggests.

Also, what makes you think scum know everyone else is town? This is still a closed setup. You claim rzhang has more information, but it seems to me it is you who has more information.

Your final sentence is also pre-emptively covering your ass. You're okay with putting him at L-1 for a pretty flimsy reason, but should someone hammer him, you're already distancing yourself from your vote? Does not compute.

I'm saying that I vote for the same reasons as the others, because I agree with the other reasons given, i just don't want to write them down again.

Alright, I'll grant it to you that it could be his playstyle. Again I'm not saying that he feels like he controls the town, only acting like he is confident with the knowledge that he has.

As for the setup, I'm used to games where there is only vanilla townie, doc, cop, and mafia so I still automatically think about that setup. That is my mistake, sorry.

My final sentence was to make sure that he doesn't get hammered and the day ends early. If someone hammered him, I would expect to be scrutinized along with everyone else, this was not meant to be a preemptive excuse.

This should be accurate, in case anyone is wondering.

rzhang86(3): Deer, water_foul, havingfitz
Deer(1): rzhang86
smashbro_of_the_SSS(4): TeWuicah, sucrose, jbernier93, chauchaudotcom

[havingfitz]

Who is your top suspect ssss? Is it still rz or have you redirected your suspicions to someone else?

@all.....do you think rz asking for replacement is frustrated town or cornered scum? (I realize there may be other reasons besides these two [ex. RL issues] but between the two choices I provided...which do you think is more likely?)

[sykedoc]

Syke: fallen angel has requested replacement
You may want to slow down a bit to wait until these two get replaced

[water_foul]

MOD: If we slow down can we get some extra time added to the day?

[Nobody Special]

Yes, well. There's at least discussion going on.

Also, for those who are interested- http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... llen_angel

It needs updating, but meh.

And just for the sake of discussion or something, if I appear to be playing well (well, scumhunting properly, anyway), that probably means I'm scum.

Bolding mine -- now, in addition to figuring out rzhang's issues, we can also determine whether FA was "playing well" and decided not to play well as scum anymore or if he wasn't "playing well" -- and somehow, I think the definition of "playing well" in this instance includes this gambit-thing of his.

Blargh.

If rzhang wasn't replacing out, I'd be voting him.

FoS: rzhang

and

fallen angel

[havingfitz]

Another replacement request. %$^&

Both our gambiteers are bailing. Nice...

If rzhang wasn't replacing out, I'd be voting him.

FoS: rzhang

and

fallen angel

What about him replacing out is preventing you from voting him? He's not replaced yet and his actions haven't changed. Why threaten but not do? If he turns out to be scum would the threat of a vote be town cred for you?

[Deer]

Fitz, I'm also going to sway towards cornered scum on rzhang's replacing. It's a hard situation to get oneself out of - he looks pretty bad in my eyes right now.

nobodyspecial, what do you think about SSSS? why do you not include him in your FoS's?

[Sucrose]

Fallen Angel's replacing out isn't quite as bad as Rzhang's. Rzhang was under heavy pressure, FA was not. It'd be nice if replacee's would at least give us a one-sentence explanation of why they are bailing, though.

[Nobody Special]

Another replacement request. %$^&

Both our gambiteers are bailing. Nice...

If rzhang wasn't replacing out, I'd be voting him.

FoS: rzhang

and

fallen angel

What about him replacing out is preventing you from voting him? He's not replaced yet and his actions haven't changed. Why threaten but not do? If he turns out to be scum would the threat of a vote be town cred for you?

No, I really hadn't thought about how his flip might bear on my appearance. I just don't really think it's bad enough to vote him.... yet. I think we might, maybe, want to give his replacement a small chance. Maybe.

nobodyspecial, what do you think about SSSS? why do you not include him in your FoS's?

I don't know what I think about him yet; I haven't quite caught up yet. Tomorrow I'll know more, and will post accordingly. Well, I

do

think there are too many "S"s in his name.

[sykedoc]

MOD: If we slow down can we get some extra time added to the day?

Upon request of the ones who replace in only.

[TeWuicah]

I'm saying that I vote for the same reasons as the others, because I agree with the other reasons given, i just don't want to write them down again.

But you should write those reasons down or at least quote some kind of justification for your vote. Otherwise, if pressed later on, how are we to know exactly why you voted for him? Remember that it happened in this case too: You were asked why you thought rz had more knowledge, and you were unable to find anything that supported your claim. Don't make vague statements like that, you will only be asked to clarify.

Other than that, I'm getting town vibes from your reply. I was more curious as to how you would respond when pressured than honestly suspicious, anyway. Hey, so long as everyone else is pulling off gambits. I see no point in having my vote on you anymore, so...

Unvote

@all.....do you think rz asking for replacement is frustrated town or cornered scum? (I realize there may be other reasons besides these two [ex. RL issues] but between the two choices I provided...which do you think is more likely?)

Honestly both explanations make some sense, but despite my earlier thoughts on him it does make me lean more towards scum. I wouldn't want to use replacement as evidence of anything but him asking for replacement is in sharp contrast of his earlier confident play, which makes me think it was just desperation play.

FA getting replaced soon after could also hint that they are scumbuddies, who want out because their misdirection play backfired. There's no strong reason to think so right now but should either one of them flip scum it's something to consider.

[sykedoc]

Sorry guys. Swamped. VC coming up soon

[havingfitz]

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?

[chauchaudotcom]

Back from V/LA.

@all.....do you think rz asking for replacement is frustrated town or cornered scum? (I realize there may be other reasons besides these two [ex. RL issues] but between the two choices I provided...which do you think is more likely?)

Honestly I feel it could go either way. Rz was heavily under pressure but at the same time pressure was redirecting towards Smash right before rz replaced. If you looked at the vote counts there were more votes on smash then rz at the time. The act of replacing out is null tell for now.

Smash - What's your experience with mafia?

I still think rzhang's moves with the gambit and whatnot were worse.

So. Question. Why were rz's actions scummy and not FA's? The only difference being FA said it was a gambit before hand and RZ said it was a gambit after?

So, water_foul. After apologizing to the town for lurking, you've still posted nothing on contribution. Any thoughts to input?

[water_foul]

Well ATM I am in completely untested waters as in every game I have played the only people replacing are not major players so I really don't know what to do with myself... I guess since you called me on it I will share my 2c but it really is not all that useful for the town. I personally agree that RZ and FA look like a scum team but I am willing to give their replacements a bit to read up although I think we should put the pressure on right away so that we can get a read from them quickly. I am a bit worried about getting confused when reading backlogs though as it will be easy to mix RZ's replacement up with FA's replacement. ATM I think we should apply pressure but I don't know who to apply pressure to so I will

unvote

to give rz's replacement a chance.

[havingfitz]

FOS water_foul

That last post was a wad of incoherent babbling IMO. And where did anyone say rz and FA were a scum team. I think most of their detractors believe it's an either/or between them.

[water_foul]

OH, sorry I misread... Like I said in the post I am in untested waters here and don't know what to think but someone asked for my input so I gave it. I was going to stay relatively quiet till replacements came and I got back on stable footing and let those who are much better at this keep the game up till then. (Please don't see this as Lurking as that is not my intention, I'm just trying not to make a confusing situation, at least to me, worse)

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Who is your top suspect ssss? Is it still rz or have you redirected your suspicions to someone else?

right now, rz is not my top suspect anymore, but I'm still going to keep an eye on his slot. I have a couple other suspicions, but I'll keep most of them to myself for now, since I dont want scum to be able to clean up their act if they see suspicion on them. But I don't like how Sucrose was effectively joining my bandwagon as he complained about me jumping on bandwagons.

Smash - What's your experience with mafia?

I'm assuming meaning playing as mafia? Or just the game in general. Anyway, I've played some games with friends at parties, but they were largely informal, and no real evidence was used. In those games I was only ever townie, and maybe a doc once.

as for on this site, I've finished one game, technically two. In my first i was mafia, and did well the entire thread.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10&start=0

the second game, I subbed in (it is now over) for Deer, and with heavy suspicion on my slot, had 2 days to try and clear my name. So I really didn't do much then, but here's the link anyway.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=700

[sykedoc]

Replacement fishing is taking far too long, if anyone can suggest someone I'd much appreciate it. Also apologies about the VC, my internet seems to be going out whenever it feels like it.

[havingfitz]

Replacement fishing is taking far too long, if anyone can suggest someone I'd much appreciate it. Also apologies about the VC, my internet seems to be going out whenever it feels like it.

It might help if you request replacements in the.......replacement list in the queue.

[Kairyuu]

sykedoc has requested that I step in to give this game a votecount while he is having internet problems. This will likely be a one time thing, but it's possible that I or someone else will be stepping in to help out for the next week or so (probably not me after today).

Vote Count:

rzhang86(2): Deer, havingfitz
Deer(2): rzhang86, sucrose
smashbro_of_the_SSS(2): jbernier93, chauchaudotcom

Not Voting (5): fallen angel, Nobody Special, smashbro_of_the_SSS, TeWuicah, water_foul

Sucrose's vote in post 150 does not count because she did not unvote.