Open 209: The Invasion of Liten (Game Over)

[Pulindar]

Haylen's at L-2

Unvote

Strike that, Haylen is at L-3

I don't want some

Sniper

coming in and

Steam Powering

the Hammer down.

I can't tell what you are trying to do with the bolded. Be funny? Because it just kind of looks to me like you are throwing flak at random players for no reason. Why these two specifically?

yeah, the be funny thing. I like their names

I didn't mean for it to actually throw flak at them, but they do have fun names for stuff like that. That wasn't quite the only reason though, I didn't bold the names, I wanted to see who else was reading close enough to notice. No one mentioned it before you.

On a side note the only people I know here are Slaxx, Haylen (the two people I RV) and St. Kerrigan.

About Bandwagons

They put some amount of pressure one people, especially when taken seriously at all. Many people react to them, and from those reactions you can often see who may be scum and who feels like they probably aren't. Also, based on how the pressure is applied you can see who is scum on the voters side. Bandwagons can be extremely useful. With two competing bandwagons not only does it lower the chance of a quick lynch but it also helps people argue with each other about why they like each bandwagon.


@ SFG: Everyone has their preferences. Sometimes D1 bandwagons work well, sometimes they don't.

@ SPS Why is our wagon on Slaxx Glorious?

@ Slaxx: Do you think our Bandwagon on you has any foundation?
What would you say to people considering joining the bandwagon on you?
Which bandwagon is better, the one I started on you, or the one I started on Haylen?

@Haylen: You don't seem to mind the Bandwagon on you, correct?
Would it be more effective to start a bandwagon on someone else?
If so who do you think would be effective?

@St. Kerrigan: You said that the Arkon's are physically superior, how closely do they appear in looks?

Arkons are shapeshifters. Physically they are somewhat similar to humans, but they can further modify their appearance to mimic the image of a human being. I can give you a more thorough physical description later, when my eyes aren't bleeding out from tiredness.

What uniforms do they wear?

Again, description to come, when I'm not so tired.

[Pulindar]

EBWOP

@ Slaxx: Do you think our Bandwagon on you has any foundation?
What would you say to people considering joining the bandwagon on you?
Which bandwagon is better, the one Nicodemus started on you, or the one I started on Haylen?
Though I don't think Nicodemus started his on purpose.

[crypto]

@St. Kerrigan: You said that the Arkon's are physically superior, how closely do they appear in looks?
What uniforms do they wear?

Leave the man alone, insolent whelp!

Why don't you have any questions for me?

Warning—serious Question:

Does anyone stand out as particularly scummy?

[crypto]

that was re: Pulindar. No one else is allowed to answer.

[Slaxx]

First of all, hey Pulindar.

Its more of an RVS bandwagon, so I would say no, but neither bandwagon does. Its foundation, in essence, is not built until after we get the info we need out of it.

Go for it. If I have to be lynched to expose scum or scavenge for information, or if I have to come dangerously close, fine. There's a lot more of us than them so we're a little bit more expendable.

Comparing the bandwagons is pointless until we've gathered some information on both of them. They will both serve a useful purpose, I'm sure. I agree that competing bandwagons are town's Excalibur against the scum.

As for you: do you think your bandwagon has any foundation?

And for SFG: by what other means do you enjoy gathering information?

[Pulindar]

Leave the man alone, insolent whelp!

Why don't you have any questions for me?

Warning—serious Question: Does anyone stand out as particularly scummy?

Hey, Hey, I'm wondering for flavor purposes.

Well, I liked your questions so no questions on that front. I don't quite agree with your reason for voting SPS, but I do see it as a valid reason and I asked you at the time, so we're settled on that score IMO.
You've had basically one line posts, which usually bother me in players like CSL and Ythan, but you have actually been posting content in those single lines quite effectively and use multiple lines when needed... I guess I could ask your thoughts on everyone so far, but I really haven't gotten that far into the game yet. and you seem to be watching and paying close attention so I'd rather wait just a bit more and let everyone post some real content before getting your full thoughts.

As for anyone standing out as scummy... At this stage that's difficult. I have to say no right now though.
Haylen always votes herself, and Slaxx always enjoys wagons. They both have acted this way in the games I've played with them, and in the games of theirs that I've read on the side.
I suppose I didn't like that Ald put Haylen at L-2, but that's what she gets for voting herself.
Nika accused horror of misrepresenting someone, but it didn't seem that egregious at the time.
SPS came in and added to a wagon, same thing that Ald did, but his vote didn't push the wagon as far as Ald's did. I'd put them in the same boat. Also I like that he didn't go after lurkers two hours in.
Nika was a bit defensive, but I loved her answers so not seeming scummy yet.
Sniper's lack of knowledge bothered me, but that's not scummy so.
SFG went after a lurker WAY to early, but there were alot of posts already so... i can see why I guess.. Still I disagree. I'd watch for other pushes, but nothing else.
Nicodemus went after me for "throwing Flak at random players" I like that. I like that he paid attention, and that he wasn't afraid to bring it up.
You I've already talked about in this post, and off hand I can't think of anyone else who has posted.

Does that answer the question?

I prefer to come in with a neutral/ town feeling on everyone and then work my way to finding scum. I like to hunt for scum, not hunt for town, but I haven't struck any to my knowledge yet.

[SaintKerrigan]

People glanced at each other nervously, uncertain of who to trust. Then, ever so slowly, a hand was raised, a finger pointed.

"He's been acting rather strange as of late," said Aegis Crypto, indicating Steam Powered Shovel (nobody knew exactly how he came by that name). "Maybe he's been switched for an Arkon!"

Steam's eyes widened. "That's preposterous!" he exclaimed. "I'm no Arkon!"

"Yeah, but who's to believe you?" Crypto replied. And therein lay the source of the problem, reflected Sarah...

Were any of these people trustworthy?

The Red Dead Tired Vote Count

(3) Slaxx: Nicodemus, Pulindar, Steam-Powered Shovel

(5) Haylen: Haylen, Nikanor, Slaxx, Horrordude0215, Alduskkel

(1) Steam-Powered Shovel: Crypto
(1) Sanhora: SFG
(1) Horrordude0215: Sniper

Not Voting: Max, Sanhora

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: March 11th, 2010 at 8:00 p.m. CST

Mod Note: Just so we're clear, what I say in the flavor has no indication as to people's alignments.

[crypto]

Leave the man alone, insolent whelp!

Why don't you have any questions for me?

Warning—serious Question: Does anyone stand out as particularly scummy?

[snippy snip]

Occupation:

Poet

Interests:

Writing

[crypto]

Okay, serious biz.

Does that answer the question?

Thoroughly.

SFG went after a lurker WAY to early, but there were alot of posts already so...

I agree with this. And in her defense, sometimes my sense of time/lurking gets warped. IMGEOSFG.

Nicodemus went after me for "throwing Flak at random players" I like that. I like that he paid attention, and that he wasn't afraid to bring it up.

That was a joke, right?

Also, I warn you that I am very capable of belting out hideous text walls and suffocating quantities of spam. In case you haven't noticed.

A

e

g

i

s

Crypto

Damn straight.

[Pulindar]

That was a joke, right?

Yeah, it was a joke.

As for the occupation. That is a bit old, but it's bringing in more money than my tutoring. I make between $50-$300/ per poem that gets accepted. about 1 in 10 are accepted and I write/polish a couple a day.

And I believe that you could come up with quite a few large walls of text. Like I said before, I think you're watching and I want to wait for a bit more substance before asking what you see. It'll have more impact then I think.

[SFG]

And for SFG: by what other means do you enjoy gathering information?

Generally my late-game play is significantly better than my early-game play, which tends to unfortunately invite pressure on me at the beginnings of games. I work best when I have an actual grounding in other people, aka after someone has already flipped, but I also point out logic flaws in other people's arguments in a way that has been construed as defense or attack, but really is intended to be neither. I tend to trust my gut because frequently, my gut picks up on something wrong in someone's play long before my analytical mind catches up to it.

If you want meta from me, I have a wiki page of my thus far meager set of games here. I've given up on newbie games for now because the players have an unfortunate tendency to skinny-dip in scum pools before joining games, resulting in frequent town-omgus when I can't find the townie beneath all the scum. I have also been lynched for the same misnamed "scumtell" twice and would appreciate it if people familiarize themselves with it now because that is simply what I do when I am under pressure and no amount of logic or experience seems to help that.

That said, I would like to hear from other players what their meta is. I've played with Nikanor in IRC before, but the rest of you are unfamiliar to me. If you don't feel like describing in words, please link me to two games, one scum and one town, that you think I should read.

[SFG]

also, two things
1. this is a way of voting that I picked up from Troll as a better way to RVS. I pick the first person I find who has confirmed but not posted, and vote them. I'm not really wagoning on her, nor do I intend to at this stage of the game...I just want her to talk.

2. IMGEOSFG means what, now?

[Nikanor]

Nika was a bit defensive, but I loved her answers so not seeming scummy yet.

What do you mean, defensive?! I'm not defensive, you are! GET OFF MY BACK!!
Just kidding.
In all seriousness though, what about my posts did/do you find defensive?

Nicodemus went after me for "throwing Flak at random players" I like that. I like that he paid attention, and that he wasn't afraid to bring it up.

I don't like it. If I had caught that, I would have just passed it off as humour. Nicodemus is trying to make it look scummy when it is not. The way I see it, he's just trying to throw dirt on you. And that is scummy because Townies shouldn't be trying to look for things that can be interpreted as scummy, they should be trying to look for things that are scummy. Nico stretched that statement pretty far in an attempt to make you look scummy, and I don't like it. If Nico had voted for you in that post he would be soooo dead right now.

@Alduskkel: I expect higher things from you than what you've given. More content, please.

I still like my Haylen vote. It's going to stick there until Haylen actually does something other than try to get herself lynched.

[crypto]

I got my eye on SFG.

[Nikanor]

SFG has just told you what she has been telling me all week, almost word for word, so I wouldn't count that post as a tell of any sort, crypto.

[crypto]

No, that was what IGMEOSFG stood for. Her second most recent post makes me feel much better, unless she's a super-awesome BSer.

[Nikanor]

Oh, okay. Why would you make an acronym for something when absolutely nobody will get it...? /offtopic

You know what? Nico is probably scum. I know that. I was going to keep some pressure on Haylen to see what happens, but I think that if Haylen is going to make herself super-obvious by active lurking all game (which she usually does as scum, iirc), the best thing to do to encourage that behaviour is to relieve the pressure on her.

Unvote. Vote: Nicodemus.

crypto, I want your opinion on Nicodemus, please.

[Pulindar]

@ Nika: Because you're the person I'm most concerned with responding to.

honestly I didn't see the need for a response to the post where I said you were buddying with me. I voted you, then unvoted you in the same post. It wasn't a big concern of mine.
You found it something you needed to defend against, and I find that interesting. I LOVED your defense though. You said the perfect things to say, I just didn't think you needed to say them. I was relooking at it in that post. I'm still not sure how I view it, but as I said it didn't stand out as particularly scummy to me.

On the Nicodemus note: I hadn't thought of it that way. well, obviously. I liked that he caught onto it. I had left it there for people to see obviously, but I also liked that he wanted my reasons. hmm I guess I'll see based on how he reacts to my answers. Still, I do get what you're saying. That's something I'll have to keep in mind on his future posts.

BTW I love your new avatar.

__________________________
Heck, why not

Unvote Slaxx L-5
Vote Sanhora L-5

______________________________
@SFG
My Meta - Scum wins
No, seriously I've only completed three games so far and scum won every single one. once I was scum, once mason, and once town (which we should have won but I messed up on the time and voted late, voted right, but voted late.)

I've played solid logical attacks as scum.
Done similar as Mason.
I was extremely defensive as townie.
I subbed into every one of those games, and almost every other game I've been in. Wait, maybe I didn't sub in the mason game. I'm forgetting. Either way I usually replace in. often times I replace in in a bad situation (just joined a game yesterday and started at L-1 Currently at L-6 in that game). In my completed games I've had to play according to the general terms that had already been set up. If you want to know my meta I suggest you ask NachoMama, so far he has always read me correctly. feel free to go to my wiki, I keep it up to date, though I still need to add this game. When scum I tend to deflect more and when town I tend to confront more. Other than that I'm not quite sure.

I'm trying to learn from Battle Mage. I like his style and even though he was scum, he played such a pro-town game that I'd like to use his scum play a bit in general. I stated that at the time in my second open science game.

[crypto]

Nikanor

I'm ambivalent. I get a weird feeling about how he questioned Pulindar's joke post. That looked like a real stretch, groping for something to comment on; I thought it was obvious that the post was a joke. But that's pretty thin stuff to go on.

What's your beef with Nico?

---

Pully

I'm trying to learn from Battle Mage. I like his style and even though he was scum, he played such a pro-town game that I'd like to use his scum play a bit in general. I stated that at the time in my second open science game.

Did you just claim scum?

[crypto]

Oh, I completely missed your post where you said essentially the same thing that I just said about Nico.

[crypto]

And yeah, that sneaky avatar change makes it really hard for me to remain unbiased.

[Nikanor]

You found it something you needed to defend against, and I find that interesting. I LOVED your defense though. You said the perfect things to say, I just didn't think you needed to say them. I was relooking at it in that post. I'm still not sure how I view it, but as I said it didn't stand out as particularly scummy to me.

I just like to make sure we're on the same page. Mutual understanding and all that. Getting accurate town reads on the town is just as important as getting accurate scum reads on the scum, after all.

BTW I love your new avatar.

Thanks!

[Pulindar]

Pully

I'm trying to learn from Battle Mage. I like his style and even though he was scum, he played such a pro-town game that I'd like to use his scum play a bit in general. I stated that at the time in my second open science game.

Did you just claim scum?

No, no, not at all. It'd take reading the game to get, but BM played an amazing game. His game was so pro-town that I'm trying to use that play everywhere. The way he questioned thing, and pointed things out without actually pointing them out. The way he maneuvered. it was like magic.

the entire time he ignored what everyone thought of him and just did his scum hunting thing. It seems an effective play for town. Granted he did it as scum, but it seems like something that could work SOOO well. just the way he applied pressure, not always where he wanted to see something, but sometimes to the side, pointing out people's reactions. Then he would apply pressure on them. He may have been scum but he showed me alot about how to hunt scum... In my opinion. Read the game, you'll see. At first you'll think he's scum, then he seems SO town he's the only one you can count on. I was a complete fail that game.

Ask Haylen, she was in it with me.

Read the game some time, it's short. science game, only 7 players. 2 mason, 2 scum, 3 town.

[Nikanor]

And yeah, that sneaky avatar change makes it really hard for me to remain unbiased.

Hehehe. You can trust me, I'm just a harmless little kitty!

[Pulindar]

Oh, I forgot to link it I was Mason in this game btw. Probably my worst game ever on Mafia.

I just liked the way his logic ran. I fawned all over him that game oh well. everyone fails sometimes.