Mini 930:Morning People Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sucrose]

Interesting.

Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

This is the second wagon you’ve jumped on, and I don’t like it one bit.

Without talking about the actual events of an ongoing game I’ve been reading, Rzhang seems to always be a very erratic, noobish player. In other words, an easy lynch.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Interesting.

Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

This is the second wagon you’ve jumped on, and I don’t like it one bit.

Without talking about the actual events of an ongoing game I’ve been reading, Rzhang seems to always be a very erratic, noobish player. In other words, an easy lynch.

The first wagon I was on was during RVS, and while i does not clear me as a townie, I unvoted early on the Deer wagon, in the midst of the gambit. If I had been mafia, then couldn't I have just left my vote on and hoped for a mislynch early on?

[fallen angel]

Interesting.

Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

This is the second wagon you’ve jumped on, and I don’t like it one bit.

Without talking about the actual events of an ongoing game I’ve been reading, Rzhang seems to always be a very erratic, noobish player. In other words, an easy lynch.

The first wagon I was on was during RVS, and while i does not clear me as a townie, I unvoted early on the Deer wagon, in the midst of the gambit. If I had been mafia, then couldn't I have just left my vote on and hoped for a mislynch early on?

Wifom isn't a defensive. Also, posting soon.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I know it is WIFOM, but it is true that the mafia will stay in a situation if it would benefit them. Staying on at that point would benefit the mafia and hope it goes through. That much is true.

[fallen angel]

I know it is WIFOM, but it is true that the mafia will stay in a situation if it would benefit them. Staying on at that point would benefit the mafia and hope it goes through. That much is true.

And.....wait for it... more wifom. Saying "the mafia would do it cause it would benefit them but I didn't because I'm not mafia" is just total wifom. There's not even a shred of a strong defense in there.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Ok, I thought i was explaining it was not wifom, but guess not, I'll try again.

based off of the mafia goals, they could put through a quick lynch on deer sue to a simple missvote. I'm saying that strategy wise, of course mafia would stay on. is it not the point of the game to analyze the other player's strategy and based what alignment you believe them to be off of this.

The point about hopping on different bandwagons would be a good one, if it did not occur so early. I had a definite reason for my random vote, and took it off once we started to leave RVS. I do not see anything scummy about that. As for the second wagon, after reading the pages I have put forward my two cents, and then, later on, changed my suspicions to a vote with evidence.

[Deer]

based off of the mafia goals, they could put through a quick lynch on deer sue to a simple missvote. I'm saying that strategy wise, of course mafia would stay on. is it not the point of the game to analyze the other player's strategy and based what alignment you believe them to be off of this

This isn't necessarily true - I don't want to sound egotistical or anything here but I probably wasn't going to be lynched, at least at that time. Quicklynching on me would be a complete obvious scumtell. Leaving your vote on me wouldn't have done much, and unvoting on the wagon is essentially a WIFOMy nulltell.

[Sucrose]

Fallen Angel admitted he was pulling a gambit. The unvote is null to me, you could just as easily have unvoted because Deer wasn't going to be lynched 3 pages in and it looked like a townie thing to do. WIFOM.

[chauchaudotcom]

Would both/either one of you explain why this would be a scum tell, other than a few anecdotal examples? I agree that it's a strange and perhaps dumb thing to do, but I don't see why that would make you guys think he's scum.

My reasoning is fairly simple. As scum you have a tendency to evaluate not only other players but yourself as well (because you aren't pro-town, you try to measure up how pro-town you appear to be). Which is what happened in one of my last games.

And the particular game I'm referencing here is:
viewtopic.php?t=12987&start=0

Where Alex, one of the scum, did a rather thorough analysis of everyone, including himself.

Also, who's your top at the moment te?

I mainly didn't like the top paragraph, since I'm getting the faint smell of him saying "well, it was a good plan for us as scum, but unfortunately it got screwed up."

So you're claiming that you see FA and rz as a scum pair? How exactly did you manage to interpret his statement as "you've failed us as scum" versus "you've failed us as town"?

so, I will vote: rzhang86 for the same reasons as the others, and the fact that he seems to be acting like he controls the game already, something scum practically are, since they know everyone else is town.

Your reason for voting rz is weak. How does rz control the game right now? Being in control means being able to direct the town as he pleases. Right now, a lot of town don't believe rz, so how is he in control?

Also, what made you decide to vote him now versus before?

[chauchaudotcom]

I will be V/LA for this weekend until monday. I can still post until like four or fiveish today. Just an FYI

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Fallen Angel admitted he was pulling a gambit. The unvote is null to me, you could just as easily have unvoted because Deer wasn't going to be lynched 3 pages in and it looked like a townie thing to do. WIFOM.

so then why do you not like that i have been on 2 wagons, if the first is a nulltell. isn't it possible that i believe rzhag is the best vote right now?

I mainly didn't like the top paragraph, since I'm getting the faint smell of him saying "well, it was a good plan for us as scum, but unfortunately it got screwed up."

So you're claiming that you see FA and rz as a scum pair? How exactly did you manage to interpret his statement as "you've failed us as scum" versus "you've failed us as town"?

so, I will vote: rzhang86 for the same reasons as the others, and the fact that he seems to be acting like he controls the game already, something scum practically are, since they know everyone else is town.

Your reason for voting rz is weak. How does rz control the game right now? Being in control means being able to direct the town as he pleases. Right now, a lot of town don't believe rz, so how is he in control?

Also, what made you decide to vote him now versus before?

I'm saying its a possibility for them to be a scumpair. With the general feeling that they could be acting scummy, especially rzhang, I took it was scumpair rather than a town pair.

The way he talks seems confident, as if he knows everything. I'm not saying that he controls the town but has more knowledge than the rest of us. With all of his explanations, he is giving more of reasons why a situation or gambit or whatever else is possible, instead of defending himself directly.

[chauchaudotcom]

The way he talks seems confident, as if he knows everything. I'm not saying that he controls the town but has more knowledge than the rest of us. With all of his explanations, he is giving more of reasons why a situation or gambit or whatever else is possible, instead of defending himself directly.

Can you point out where in his posts it indicates/hints at him having prior/more knowledge?

[Nobody Special]

I need to

unvote

because that was still from the RVS. I know I said I'd post yesterday, and I'm sorry for not having done so. I will try to catch up this weekend.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

The way he talks seems confident, as if he knows everything. I'm not saying that he controls the town but has more knowledge than the rest of us. With all of his explanations, he is giving more of reasons why a situation or gambit or whatever else is possible, instead of defending himself directly.

Can you point out where in his posts it indicates/hints at him having prior/more knowledge?

For the most part, it's the way he's making his posts, his tone, etc. that is making me think this.

I was looking through his posts in this thread, but unfortunately I didn't find anything to give concrete support. All I can say about this is that its my general feeling I get from reading his posts.

I have to have time to think about this, and think about my opinion of him again. Until then,

unvote

[havingfitz]

I have to have time to think about this, and think about my opinion of him again. Until then,

unvote

Has your gut feel changed or are you just backing down after receiving a few question and negative attention from your rz vote?

[jbernier93]

unvote, vote:SSSS

He basically posted absolutely nothing of any consequence, wagoned rz to L-1, then backed off after being questioned for it... Doesn't mean I think RZ is town but SSSS's actions are more vote worthy IMO.

[chauchaudotcom]

Unvote; Vote smashbro_of_the_SSS

[chauchaudotcom]

wt ninja'd

unvote

I gotta recheck the vote count

[chauchaudotcom]

Okay, just making sure. He's L-2.

Vote: smashbro_of_the_SSS

JB - Why do you think rz is scummy? You quoted a line he wrote when you voted but never explained.

[jbernier93]

Your vote would've only put him at L-2.

[jbernier93]

JB - Why do you think rz is scummy? You quoted a line he wrote when you voted but never explained.

I thought it was pretty self-explanatory? Basically it was a very weak explanation regarding his vote, because it seems to directly contradict the whole purpose of fallen's gambit. Also I get a bit of a gut feeling scum feeling from him.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I have to have time to think about this, and think about my opinion of him again. Until then,

unvote

Has your gut feel changed or are you just backing down after receiving a few question and negative attention from your rz vote?

I'm backing down because I had been going mostly on gut feeling, and when asked to find concrete evidence, I realized the largest indicator of scum I had on him was just the gut read. I'm not going to vote on him because of gut alone, and so I unvoted. The questioning did lead me to backing down, but I am not doing it because I am worried that the arguement would put a bad reflection on me, but because it has led me to have doubts about if he is scum or not.

[TeWuicah]

Also, who's your top at the moment te?

Can't say I have a particularly strong suspect, but due to his recent posts I'm quite happy with my vote on SSSS. This post especially:

*sigh* I meant you're actions did nothing to help my plan. It honestly hurt it, seeing as all attention was drawn towards you afterwards, so nothing was gained.

I get that. But you're saying that you're neutral. If you are town, instead of focusing on that, try and redeem yourself instead of saying "Well, I can't prove it to you." You aren't getting lynched within the next real-life day or more, (at least, not if the town has *any* commons sense), so get out of the hole you dug. I meant giving up on anything useful. All you're doing is saying "I'm not scum but I can't prove it. Oh, and I did everything useful with FA's gambit."

Nope. I'm just trying to figure out how you think you're helping in the least bit.

I mainly didn't like the top paragraph, since I'm getting the faint smell of him saying "well, it was a good plan for us as scum, but unfortunately it got screwed up." This

As to why I unvoted, I didn't have any good reason to vote Deer, as I had no suspicions on him, but I did not consider the gambit taking place.

so, I will

vote: rzhang86

for the same reasons as the others, and the fact that he seems to be acting like he controls the game already, something scum practically are, since they know everyone else is town.

HE IS AT L-1 DO NOT VOTE AGAINST HIM YET

For starters, saying you vote for him "for the same reasons as the others" is very noncommittal, and as far as I can tell people did have different reasons for voting.

As for him acting like he controls the game, it seems more like his playstyle to me than actual control. Given that everyone finds him various shades of suspicious, he doesn't have nearly as much sway over people as your post suggests.

Also, what makes you think scum know everyone else is town? This is still a closed setup. You claim rzhang has more information, but it seems to me it is you who has more information.

Your final sentence is also pre-emptively covering your ass. You're okay with putting him at L-1 for a pretty flimsy reason, but should someone hammer him, you're already distancing yourself from your vote? Does not compute.

[Sucrose]

The way he talks seems confident, as if he knows everything. I'm not saying that he controls the town but has more knowledge than the rest of us. With all of his explanations, he is giving more of reasons why a situation or gambit or whatever else is possible, instead of defending himself directly.

Can you point out where in his posts it indicates/hints at him having prior/more knowledge?

For the most part, it's the way he's making his posts, his tone, etc. that is making me think this.

I was looking through his posts in this thread, but unfortunately I didn't find anything to give concrete support. All I can say about this is that its my general feeling I get from reading his posts.

I have to have time to think about this, and think about my opinion of him again. Until then,

unvote

Your bandwagoning twice then backing down twice when under pressure has certainly been noted. I also couldn't disagree more with your assessment of rzhang.

[sykedoc]

rzhang86 has requested replacement.