Newbie 920: Mafia in Newbietown (Game over! Town wins!)

[mariomaster777]

I find your analysis interesting Netopalis. The majority (if not all) of the players you have pro-town reads on are, in your mind, "logic style" players. Those who you distrust are those who have no logic behind their answers, or have a waffling style. Is this something you've picked up with your experience, or is it because these players align with your playing style and you'd like to keep them around a bit longer?

I certainly have my gut feelings at this point, but felt a post was at least warranted so I can stay in the conversation at hand. I'm not comfortable sharing who I suspect, as I can't make a strong enough argument to cast my vote. You'll remember from my answer to Unsight's questions that I don't like publicly sharing my suspect list.

[Netopalis]

The waffling part is the more important part. The goal isn't to find players who are aligned with my playstyle, the goal is to find players who aren't trying to hide anything. You can make statements that don't have a lot of explanation without trying to hide something; conversely, you can play in a very logical style and still hide things.

[Zachrulez]

6th vote count of day 1:

Netopalis - 2 (Mcgriddle, Carl Sagan)
Carl Sagan - 1 (Fiyr)

Not voting (Julano, mariomaster777, FluffyGiggles, Legions, Unsight, Netopalis)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

DL is March 16 at 9am central.

[Legions]

McGriddle:
Legions:
Legion's post bothers me greatly. If you note, he just makes short statements that don't actually say anything. Most of them are just "yes/no" answers that don't really provide a lot of decent analysis. Also, notice his reaction when I mention that I have a scum read on him at the moment...Seems like blatant buddying and Appeal to Emotion (AtE). Scum read.

Yeah, yeah. I really regret the pretty dumb wording of that post, I only thought about it after that fact, which is a bit too late. As for my lack of wording with the questions, I dunno. Maybe I'm not that bright? :p I didn't think they would really be weighed at all in this to tell you the truth, and it's just very atypical of me to make long posts anyway. I tend to be a bit more to the point. Probably not a very good thing, but that's just how I am. (This is considered pretty long for me I guess.... o.O)
I'm keeping up with what's going on as best as I can, but overall just have a bad nose for sniffing out suspicious activity at the moment.

[Netopalis]

You'll get there. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just remember: Everything is analyzed in Mafia, for better or for worse. Who do you suspect right now? Your list can be based on gut or on reasoning. As for longer posts, you'll notice that they tend to lengthen over time...

[McGriddle]

You'll get there. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just remember: Everything is analyzed in Mafia, for better or for worse. Who do you suspect right now? Your list can be based on gut or on reasoning. As for longer posts, you'll notice that they tend to lengthen over time...

Netopalis, you seem a little bit to nice in this game, you are very aggressive in the other. Is this because you are IC? If so, you are baffling me, and you make me want to leave my vote on you with all the buddying up.

[Netopalis]

Griddle: Read the start of our other game; I play like this at the beginning, and when I get a bit more certain of my targets, I become more aggressive.

[McGriddle]

Griddle: Read the start of our other game; I play like this at the beginning, and when I get a bit more certain of my targets, I become more aggressive.

Okay, fair enough.

[Legions]

You'll get there. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just remember: Everything is analyzed in Mafia, for better or for worse. Who do you suspect right now? Your list can be based on gut or on reasoning. As for longer posts, you'll notice that they tend to lengthen over time...

Well, sad to say, I don't really. Though I am taking note of trying to keep a particularly close eye on you (and I promise, it isn't just the "Oh yeah? you suspicious of ME? I'm suspicious of YOU!" mentality).

You haven't done anything that seems destructive to the town in any way so it doesn't even warrant a FoS against you, but you are very much in charge. And while I realize that since you are the IC in a Newbie game, that's inevitable to a certain extent and there are plenty here who are participating heavily, if you happened to be scum, it would be pretty disastrous.

I kind of agree with your list though I guess. I'm just a bit confused about your reasoning against Carl Sagan. I don't necessarily disagree, but I guess I need slight elaboration. You're saying it seems like he kind of forced arguing with you for no real reason?

[McGriddle]

@ Legions -

(and I promise, it isn't just the "Oh yeah? you suspicious of ME? I'm suspicious of YOU!" mentality).

That is what we call OMGUS. In fact, that's an example to the T lol

[mariomaster777]

Question: Does the deadline the GM posted refer to when the game has to end or when day 1 has to end? It seems we're spending a lot of time on the 1st phase, but maybe I'm just used to the 48 hour rule per day phases I play on the other site.

[Netopalis]

Mario: It's just day 1 - days around here are usually about 2 weeks-ish.

Legions: Fair enough on the points about me - that's what I hinted at in my response to Sagan. However, I'm still concerned about the fact that you don't have any reads yourself. Try rereading the thread; look for someone who seems to be hiding something, someone not being entirely truthful or someone that you just don't feel quite right about. Then, post what you come up with.

[Fiyr]

I would just like to notify everyone that i will not be very active on weekends.

or have a waffling style.

sorry if my questions get annoying...but what does this mean?

[Fiyr]

I would just like to notify everyone that i will not be very active on weekends.

or have a waffling style.

sorry if my questions get annoying...but what does this mean?

[Unsight]

I'm keeping up with what's going on as best as I can, but overall just have a bad nose for sniffing out suspicious activity at the moment.

Ironically enough, the ones who have the most trouble scumhunting are often the scum themselves. If you can't scumhunt then you're either an unhelpful townie or an unhelpful scummer and both end with you getting lynched.

FoS: Legions

[Unsight]

I would just like to notify everyone that i will not be very active on weekends.

or have a waffling style.

sorry if my questions get annoying...but what does this mean?

Scum want a mislynch. They win by getting townies to lynch each other so when a townie has some votes, scum will often jump on the bandwagon to speed things up. However, the town doesn't always follow through and sometimes the prime suspect shifts. In which case, the scum have to shift their votes as well. So when you see someone shifting their votes a lot and generally hopping on whatever bandwagon that rolls by, it's usually a pretty good sign they're scum.

I guess on mafiascum.net it's called "waffling."

[Unsight]

I certainly have my gut feelings at this point, but felt a post was at least warranted so I can stay in the conversation at hand. I'm not comfortable sharing who I suspect, as I can't make a strong enough argument to cast my vote. You'll remember from my answer to Unsight's questions that I don't like publicly sharing my suspect list.

How do you see yourself helping the town if you're only making posts to "stay in the conversation?" How is that any different than lurking?

[Unsight]

You'll get there. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just remember: Everything is analyzed in Mafia, for better or for worse. Who do you suspect right now? Your list can be based on gut or on reasoning. As for longer posts, you'll notice that they tend to lengthen over time...

Netopalis, you seem a little bit to nice in this game, you are very aggressive in the other. Is this because you are IC? If so, you are baffling me, and you make me want to leave my vote on you with all the buddying up.

McGriddle what are your thoughts right now? Who do you suspect? What do you think the best plan of action is? When we will see the McGriddle Smash?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[McGriddle]

You'll get there. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just remember: Everything is analyzed in Mafia, for better or for worse. Who do you suspect right now? Your list can be based on gut or on reasoning. As for longer posts, you'll notice that they tend to lengthen over time...

Netopalis, you seem a little bit to nice in this game, you are very aggressive in the other. Is this because you are IC? If so, you are baffling me, and you make me want to leave my vote on you with all the buddying up.

1.McGriddle what are your thoughts right now?
2.Who do you suspect?
3. What do you think the best plan of action is?
4. When we will see the McGriddle Smash?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I took the liberty of numbering this myself.

1. I am looking into both carl and netopalis as a possible scum pair. Don't ask me why they are a pair, I just can't decide which one of them if not both are scum.
2. ^^
3. I think the best plan is to get all of the newb questions anyone has answered and on with the game.
4. Now *RAAAWRRRRR* Sagan, how can you come in here, throw all these accusations and suspicions around and not be back on to explain yourself or even defend yourself? You are actively lurking, I can tell. Get in here now and explain yourself.

Unvote

[Julano]

To respond to a couple of points on page 6, my answers to the questions were truthful. If you're (Netopalis) finding them mafia-like then you're reading too much into them =\. Unsight's comment (that I hadn't begun 'scumhunting' yet) was correct (pretty much), since at that point I didn't see much to analyse. That should change shortly.

In my opinion, this game really started with Carl Sagan's attack on Netopalis at the top of page 5. Getting down to the action seems townie to me, hence on my imaginary scales he has moved a distance to the town side. That's probably my most extreme 'leaning' right now, although he should definitely post more. The lack of any kind of follow-up is diluting this read.

About Netopalis' summary (page 6): you seem to have quite strong opinions on several people already? How?
1. You are mafia trying to influence the town's thoughts
2. You are stating your opinions more strongly than they actually just for simplification/to make them meaningful
3. You actually do have well developed ideas at this point.

Mentioned is McGriddle's 'continued presence in this game and the posting of lots of content' as a positive point amongst a null read. I don't really remember much useful input from McGriddle?

FluffyGiggles:
Based just on the questions, I'd have a scum read, especially from this answer:
"c) Absolutes are bad. But not always. You'd have to factor in how suspicious the player's been acting, etc."
However, her third page post between this post and my last one is very, very strongly pro-town. She takes Sagan's post seriously and turns an illogical argument into a cool-headed analysis of the situation at hand. I'd be interested in hearing her response to both of these posts. Solid town read.

After laughing at the irony of 'Absolutes are bad. But not always', I wonder why this line is scummy to you?
Rest of the paragraph I'd agree with. (Except perhaps the 'solid'.)

Fiyr, I am confused at your suspision of Carl. If you could explain a bit more that would be great.




Incidentally, I am aware that being unsure of who to vote for is often considered a mafia tell.

[Netopalis]

Responding to a few points....

Waffling is the act of failing to take a strong stance. Scum often don't like to firmly state their opinion because later they get accused when it turns out that they were wrong.

Griddle: Obviously, I can't respond to such a vague case. Mind expanding it?

Julano: Very good. You're absolutely right - I AM reading far too much into these opening posts. That is, however, the point. Mafia games start in one of two ways: Random votes or random questions. In the random votes games, votes are thrown around randomly and players watch the reactions of everybody else as pressure is applied to different people. This is exactly the same idea - I'm applying pressure to people that I think are hiding something and watching their reactions. Would I be willing to lynch on those alone? Absolutely not. Would I be willing to lynch on those plus no response/poor responses? Of course. As for the "Absolutes are bad" thing, it's a perfect example of Waffling as defined above. At any rate, this is an excellent response to my points - consider yourself put into the town category in my reads.

[McGriddle]

Responding to a few points....

Waffling is the act of failing to take a strong stance. Scum often don't like to firmly state their opinion because later they get accused when it turns out that they were wrong.

Griddle: Obviously, I can't respond to such a vague case. Mind expanding it?

Julano: Very good. You're absolutely right - I AM reading far too much into these opening posts. That is, however, the point. Mafia games start in one of two ways: Random votes or random questions. In the random votes games, votes are thrown around randomly and players watch the reactions of everybody else as pressure is applied to different people. This is exactly the same idea - I'm applying pressure to people that I think are hiding something and watching their reactions. Would I be willing to lynch on those alone? Absolutely not. Would I be willing to lynch on those plus no response/poor responses? Of course. As for the "Absolutes are bad" thing, it's a perfect example of Waffling as defined above. At any rate, this is an excellent response to my points - consider yourself put into the town category in my reads.

Sure, I don't really find anyone all that scummy with the exception of sagan, but I am leaning towards you scum from mostly gut, and asserting yourself so hard.

[McGriddle]

EBWOP: asserting yourself so hard as the dominant player in this game.

[Netopalis]

*shrugs* It's how I play. Again, check my other games - you'll see that I have a similar style as IC, and it's a style that I'm trying to develop in my regular games.

[Julano]

EBWOP: asserting yourself so hard as the dominant player in this game.

That is true, but then he has announced this fact. As mafia he would want be leading without making people clearly aware of it?

Netpalis: 'you seem to have quite strong opinions on several people already? How?'