Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!


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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:51 am

Post by Anon »

Here is where I am sitting at the moment:

Fact:
Nikanorscum lynched day 1 with some resistance and a possible counterwagon in CSL at some point of the day .

Theory:
Scum never put all his eggs on a basket.

What does this mean?

If we assume 4 scum, which is reasonable with 17 players then I think its extremely possible that there is 1-2 scum bussing and 1-2 scum out of the wagon and very likely defending Nikanor. Considering how fast the wagon went, if I had to guess, I would go with 1 scum bussing, 1 scum defending and 1 scum with no opinion.


In the lynch wagon:
camn, Anon, Drippereth, Maemuki
, McZombie,
CSL
,
Ythan
, Spyrex,
Parama.


Out of the lynch wagon: Dramonic,
Weaboo
, clergyman, kmd, nacho, yosa, miserableatbest.


Interestengly enough, I have a lot of reliable town reads on the lynch wagon, except by McZombie and Spyrex. And all fit in the category of the bussing scumbag for the type of posts used to vote Nikanor.

Now, my reads in the out of the lynch wagon are less reliable. I really think dramonic is more likely the wrong townie rather than the scumbag trying to save an inevitable lynch and use wifom for defense but I could be underestimating him and get this wrong. I cant say the same of clergyhoops for obvious reasons*. Kmd, nacho and yosa are kinda ok, still not sure, and palindar like a good wine, has gotten better with every post he makes, but still MaB's scummy ghost makes me rethink this decision.

*My problem with clergyhoops is that I dont understand what was the reason for clearing Nikanor with no basis at all. Clergy, help me here?
Hoops wrote:Nikanor is town. This wagon should be ashamed of itself.
___________
If I had to guess right now the scumteam is Spyrex, Hoops and some pesky one that should come up when other scumbags die in order.
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:53 am

Post by Ythan »

Hydras in general have seemed to be throwing analysis(es?) around without tons of support. That's how I took it when I saw that one.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:55 am

Post by Drippereth »

OK guys I got it.

We lynch MaB/Pulindar today. Clergyhoop gets vig'ed. Or lynched tomorrow.

The reason why I want MaB/Pulindar to go first is that if I die tonight, tomorrow, I trust you guys more to lynch Clergyhoop than MaB/Pulindar. Clergyhoop gives enough weird vibes for every one to pick up easily. MaB/Pulindar type scumtell detection is more of a specialty of mine ;-)
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:55 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Oh, lmao!!! I was thinking like URL links.

I see more links in vote counts than player posts most of the time.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:59 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Drip, I support that.

Unvote, Vote Pulindar
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:01 am

Post by Drippereth »

Good job. I think you're right about SpyreX. Good job. Five gold stars to you.
Anon wrote:*My problem with clergyhoops is that I dont understand what was the reason for clearing Nikanor with no basis at all. Clergy, help me here?
Hoops wrote:Nikanor is town. This wagon should be ashamed of itself.
About Clergyhoops: as I said earlier, it's an over-the-top attempt to behave in a completely unexpected manner with the hope of blinding everyone with the brilliance of your mindfuck. FAIL.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:05 am

Post by Drippereth »

Hehehehe
Pulindar wrote: If anything I thought maybe everyone went for a kill on CSL, and if there is a Vig there's a pretty good chance as well that they decided not to kill anyone.
Hahahahaha

SCUM
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:08 am

Post by Ythan »

Yeah that's incredibly overinterpretative.
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:16 am

Post by Drippereth »

Ythan wrote:Yeah that's incredibly overinterpretative.
Deeper, deeper, feel the mind meld.
Townie injecting clarity wrote:One death. CSL. Unlikely scum. A game of this size would unlikely have a single NK when combining: (1) dim probability of multiple scumteams; (2) vigs and (3) SKs. Also, read the scum QTs in Kingdom Hearts where being a miller afforded me some unexpected longevity; all the scums have vowed to make sure I be very dead by Day 2 in all future games. My DGB title is "mafia pinata" for a reason. So in all probability I was the NK and it failed.

There may be bus'ing on the wagon but it sure didn't come from me. I think after we lynch 3 scums in a row you will change your mind about that ;-)
Scum injecting chaos wrote:If anything I thought maybe everyone went for a kill on CSL, and if there is a Vig there's a pretty good chance as well that they decided not to kill anyone.
Also, it's wrong on so many levels.

(1) The vig didn't kill last night? That's funny, hey, Ythan???
(2) CSL is such a key, perceptive player that everyone with a weapon aimed at him.
(3) Except. The. Vig.
(4) With everyone screaming policy lynch and my calling for his vig a million times.
(5) And who is this EVERYONE he speaks of???
No really guys, practice your own mind meld on this one please.
Sense it. Feel it. Trust your instincts.
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:18 am

Post by Ythan »

No, your interpretation is fine. His comment was overinterpretative of night actions.
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:33 am

Post by Pulindar »

I have a serious question for you both, what happens when I flip town?

And Drip don't just dismiss it saying that I'm obv scum I seriously want to know what your reaction will be when I flip town?
You tend to try to dismiss all of my questions without ever really answering them and I'm getting a bit tired of it Drip. In fact you never answered my questions from my last post, you just pushed to lynch me right away after I asked them.

Actually, why was your reaction to lynch me first as soon as I started to ask questions?
Are you afraid of giving the answers?
You say it's because you don't think others will push for my lynch as only you can see my scumminess, but what do you see?


_____________________
on another Note
Anon wrote:Here is where I am sitting at the moment:

Fact:
Nikanorscum lynched day 1 with some resistance and a possible counterwagon in CSL at some point of the day .

Theory:
Scum never put all his eggs on a basket.

What does this mean?

If we assume 4 scum, which is reasonable with 17 players then I think its extremely possible that there is 1-2 scum bussing and 1-2 scum out of the wagon and very likely defending Nikanor. Considering how fast the wagon went, if I had to guess, I would go with 1 scum bussing, 1 scum defending and 1 scum with no opinion.


In the lynch wagon:
camn, Anon, Drippereth, Maemuki
, McZombie,
CSL
,
Ythan
, Spyrex,
Parama.


Out of the lynch wagon: Dramonic,
Weaboo
, clergyman, kmd, nacho, yosa, miserableatbest.


Interestengly enough, I have a lot of reliable town reads on the lynch wagon, except by McZombie and Spyrex. And all fit in the category of the bussing scumbag for the type of posts used to vote Nikanor.

Now, my reads in the out of the lynch wagon are less reliable. I really think dramonic is more likely the wrong townie rather than the scumbag trying to save an inevitable lynch and use wifom for defense but I could be underestimating him and get this wrong. I cant say the same of clergyhoops for obvious reasons*. Kmd, nacho and yosa are kinda ok, still not sure, and palindar like a good wine, has gotten better with every post he makes, but still MaB's scummy ghost makes me rethink this decision.

*My problem with clergyhoops is that I dont understand what was the reason for clearing Nikanor with no basis at all. Clergy, help me here?
Hoops wrote:Nikanor is town. This wagon should be ashamed of itself.
___________
If I had to guess right now the scumteam is Spyrex, Hoops and some pesky one that should come up when other scumbags die in order.
This was an awesome way of looking at it logically. I agree that scum would not put all their eggs in one basket. and I like the way you're trying to narrow it down. I want to hear Clergy's answer to your question as well, I agreed with it at the time for my own reasons (I started reading this game from the beginning before I had a role) but I'd like to see how Clergy explains it.

________________________
Yosarian2 wrote:
Drippereth wrote: In theory that's possible. In practice, that's the weirdest reason for scum to NK a player in the history of the universe.
Granted. It probably was a vig kill. That's just the only possible motive I could come up with for it being a scum kill.
Second, no one has even mentioned that players should gain or lose credit for CSL's death.
Not for his death, but if CSL wasn't confirmed town, Clergy wouldn't have been able to make this attack:
A clergyman with a hoop wrote: imho, I think scum saw CSL as a chance to get a mislynch. The other wagon was a probably town-fuelled charge that happened to hit scum, so they needed a targetto switch suspicion to and quick. CSL was the best choice, because he looks so filthily scummy.

The two who were pushing CSL the most were Yos2 and Para.
Note that me and para were both people who highly suspected Clergy, and that Clergy would want to discredit.

Meh. As I put this on paper, I'm actually realizing it's even more flimsy a theory then I thought before, heh. I guess we should assume it was a vig kill until we have reason to believe otherwise.
I missed this post before my comprehensive post.

hmm this definitely changes things. I mean I had read Clergy saying that, but I didn't look at it that way. I'm going to go with a slight scum lean on Clergy for now, instead of a definite town lean. I still like some of what clergy has said, but I need to reread in iso and check out. Thanks for pointing that out Yos.

______________________

Ythan, except for the fact that you're following on your master's heals, how is that over-interpretative?
It is a reasonable idea, and one I actually think. In fact it was what I originally thought before I even joined the game. It may be outside the box, but everyone was having problems with CSL and I can really see (and have seen) scum kill him purely to be rid of him from the game.

Drip: Yet again you give you reason. You quote me, laugh, and say SCUM in big bold letters. (didn't you just insult ClergyHoop for doing that same thing to you????)
drip wrote:Mind meld. Spock's voice. "Now that I have scared you by touting my awesome powers of mindfuck, and adding further lasagna noodles to the mindfuck dish, I will intimidate you. I will try to persuade you with authoritative CAPITALIZED action verbs. Now that I've hypnotized you with the greatness of my world-class mindfuck, use your influence with the idiots that listen to you and tell them to unvote me."
yet you did it in the post before you used it as an insult too
drip wrote:MaB/Plulindur IS STILL SCUM.
Ythan is still town.
Dramonic IS scummy AND lurky.
You're pretty contradictory on what counts as scum Drip.

And you still have yet to give an actual reason. I'm waiting, I can argue against a reason, give me one, anyone. or just wait till I'm offline again and spam for more pages about how I'm SCUM SCUM SCUM!!!!

_________________________

KMD

Why do you support that?
You are saying that you support him, but do you have any reason other than to blindly follow Drip, who also has yet to give a reason?
I already said a few time that it's likely I'll be lynched, but I want you to give a real reason to lynch me, and I want you to tell me what your reaction will be when I flip town?

Yes I understand MaB was scummy, Camn's pointed out how to me the most. the spot doesn't stop being scummy just because a new player jumps in I get that as well, just give me something to argue against, please?

___________________

Anyway, I'm starting to reiterate myself, so I'll cease after one last question.

Mae:
I just noticed that your vote was on me, may I ask you why? Do you still feel that my spot is a good lynch for the day? do you have any questions I can possibly answer?

oh, and as for Nacho I never said he was town. I said he's one of the best players I've ever seen. I have a null read on him. Though you, who are actually voting me, I have a slight town read on. :) Try not to misrepresent me again.
"If I had to label someone as dangerous, it'd be Pulindar. I have a feeling his scum game is very similar to his town game.... What I think is dangerous about Pulindar is that his scumreads feel so liquid. He can post a wall of questions and decide he doesn't like your answer to one of them and justify a vote on you." ~ Prawneater
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:41 am

Post by Ythan »

If and not when you flip town we get Parama tomorrow.

"Are you afraid of giving the answers?" Is this a joke because it's not a good one.

"Ythan, except for the fact that you're following on your master's heals" Spell heels right next time and your ass-pulled mudslinging will stick better.

"how is that over-interpretative?" Too great a stretch with too much surety behind it.
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:45 am

Post by Drippereth »

Pulindar wrote:I have a serious question for you both, what happens when I flip town?
This is one of many times where you tie us to Ythan by asking us the same questions in tandem. Obviously, nothing. If we (speaking on behalf of Drippereth only) are wrong, it happens. We'll hope we're right on Clergyhoop & SpyreX.
Pulindar wrote:And Drip don't just dismiss it saying that I'm obv scum
I have never done that. I have laid out very careful cases on MaB and yourself. From Nikanor's last-ditch effort to distance from a player that wasn't even on his wagon to your effort to wedge uncalled for suspicion on townies as well as theories that are patently false and only for the purposes of injecting chaos, and my "mind-meld" post I have done nothing but lay elaborate cases and call for your lynch/vig.
Pulindar wrote:Actually, why was your reaction to lynch me first as soon as I started to ask questions?
You're doing it again. Everyone knows I've been all over your player slot like a pit bull on a ham bone since early yesterday. FAIL.
Pulindar wrote:Are you afraid of giving the answers?
That's a rhetorical, AND loaded question. But I've been making plenty of cases and giving answers. Are you ignoring my answers? Yes you are.
Pulindar wrote:You say it's because you don't think others will push for my lynch as only you can see my scumminess, but what do you see?
Read my posts. My cases are perfectly laid out in as many words as I could muster.

It hasn't escaped my notice that you're trying to butter up as many players as you can.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:48 am

Post by Drippereth »

Parama is town. Nobody "gets" Parama. Not tomorrow. Not anytime.
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:49 am

Post by Ythan »

Excuse me for not taking your clearing of him seriously.
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:50 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Well, if Clergy is scum, then para is defiantly town. And I think Clergy is scum.
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:10 am

Post by Ythan »

I understand that your interpretation of Para is dependent upon your interpretation of Clergy. Is the opposite true as well?
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:15 am

Post by Drippereth »

Ythan wrote:Excuse me for not taking your clearing of him seriously.
No really he is cleared. You are not reading between the lines enough. Ask no further questions about Parama's towniness; it shall not be questioned.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:15 am

Post by Drippereth »

BTW I'm a GREAT jailkeep target.
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:17 am

Post by Ythan »

I question it.
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:18 am

Post by Pulindar »

Drippereth wrote:
Ythan wrote:Yeah that's incredibly overinterpretative.
Deeper, deeper, feel the mind meld.
Townie injecting clarity wrote:One death. CSL. Unlikely scum. A game of this size would unlikely have a single NK when combining: (1) dim probability of multiple scumteams; (2) vigs and (3) SKs. Also, read the scum QTs in Kingdom Hearts where being a miller afforded me some unexpected longevity; all the scums have vowed to make sure I be very dead by Day 2 in all future games. My DGB title is "mafia pinata" for a reason. So in all probability I was the NK and it failed.

There may be bus'ing on the wagon but it sure didn't come from me. I think after we lynch 3 scums in a row you will change your mind about that ;-)
Scum injecting chaos wrote:If anything I thought maybe everyone went for a kill on CSL, and if there is a Vig there's a pretty good chance as well that they decided not to kill anyone.
Also, it's wrong on so many levels.

(1) The vig didn't kill last night? That's funny, hey, Ythan???
(2) CSL is such a key, perceptive player that everyone with a weapon aimed at him.
(3) Except. The. Vig.
(4) With everyone screaming policy lynch and my calling for his vig a million times.
(5) And who is this EVERYONE he speaks of???
No really guys, practice your own mind meld on this one please.
Sense it. Feel it. Trust your instincts.
ooo I didn't notice this, this is a, well not a good post, but a post with something to respond to. :) yay

1.) Why are you two able to talk outside of the game? How else would you have evidence that there even is a vig?
2.) No, CSL is a player that people think detracts from the games enough to make them unenjoyable THUS they all aim at him.
3.) why do you always insist on misrepresenting me Drip? I gave two possibilities. Separate, not one in the same.
4.) You don't control the world Drip, and not everyone agreed with you. There is a chance that a vig did not kill him. Just like there is a chance that everyone with a NK power did kill him.
5.) I have no idea Drip. How would I know? In fact other than Haylen no one knows. could there be an SK? a Vig? yeah there could. What about Scum... oh there are definitely scum... So, I don't know who everyone is. I don't even know for a fact that everyone is more than one person.

Ythan wrote:If and not when you flip town we get Parama tomorrow.

"Are you afraid of giving the answers?" Is this a joke because it's not a good one.

"Ythan, except for the fact that you're following on your master's heals" Spell heels right next time and your ass-pulled mudslinging will stick better.

"how is that over-interpretative?" Too great a stretch with too much surety behind it.
So, you won't question your tactics at all huh? I hope others do.

Yet you still do not answer???? Why do you keep saying my questions are jokes? why do you skip so many?

Ah yes, I used a homonym. are you saying you've never done that? Clearly you understood the question, yet again you did not answer? Why?

To great a stretch? I listed a few of the unlisted possibilities. Well I listed two of the unlisted possibilities in this post I listed a few more. I was adding on (yes I admit it) I was adding new perspectives to be discussed.
As for too much surety???? Can you truly be serious? Well, I guess that question is rhetorical. Anyway, Drip is the one who was positive that scum missed their NK. He uses his being alive as being proof. if that's not WIFOM I don't know what is (though you'll say then clearly I don't). Seriously though he's pushing himself as so pro-town that he must be the only one that mafia would ever consider NKing? That's surety. My post had TWO options. and I said "I thought maybe" granted there should have been a comma there between I thought, and maybe and another comma after maybe, but still. That's not a sentence that can be taken as something with surety behind it. So, your reasons are obviously wrong. do you wish to change your thought that I was
Y wrote: incredibly overinterpretative.
Since your reasons are obviously wrong?

______________
Drippereth wrote:
Pulindar wrote:I have a serious question for you both, what happens when I flip town?
This is one of many times where you tie us to Ythan by asking us the same questions in tandem. Obviously, nothing. If we (speaking on behalf of Drippereth only) are wrong, it happens. We'll hope we're right on Clergyhoop & SpyreX.
Pulindar wrote:And Drip don't just dismiss it saying that I'm obv scum
I have never done that. I have laid out very careful cases on MaB and yourself. From Nikanor's last-ditch effort to distance from a player that wasn't even on his wagon to your effort to wedge uncalled for suspicion on townies as well as theories that are patently false and only for the purposes of injecting chaos, and my "mind-meld" post I have done nothing but lay elaborate cases and call for your lynch/vig.
Pulindar wrote:Actually, why was your reaction to lynch me first as soon as I started to ask questions?
You're doing it again. Everyone knows I've been all over your player slot like a pit bull on a ham bone since early yesterday. FAIL.
Pulindar wrote:Are you afraid of giving the answers?
That's a rhetorical, AND loaded question. But I've been making plenty of cases and giving answers. Are you ignoring my answers? Yes you are.
Pulindar wrote:You say it's because you don't think others will push for my lynch as only you can see my scumminess, but what do you see?
Read my posts. My cases are perfectly laid out in as many words as I could muster.

It hasn't escaped my notice that you're trying to butter up as many players as you can.
Same reaction as Ythan for when I flip town, no reevaluation. Again I hope others due because your tactics are going to let scum win.

As for asking you both the same questions together... Can you honestly say that he isn't following you around like a lost little puppy?

As for not answering my questions. You've answered NONE of my questions from posts before my last one. and you skipped several questions on my last one including when I asked about the hypocrisy of your actions and response to fully capitalized words.

Also, I see others giving evidence against MaB, I see you specifically saying you don't want to talk about his part anymore. I see your Mind Meld thing, which I talked about already and again received no response from you about after words.

The best real case you have against me is where you quote my thoughts on the night actions which I talk about earlier this post.

It's true you do have your vote on this spot, and already did. I can see you going for that weak lynch. once people started to question it and drop of my wagon you started saying that lynching ClergyHoop first would be better and vigging me. After I started putting real questions on your spot though you said I needed to go now.

Also, why haven't you addressed my meta on your spot yet? still nothing to say? just trying to slide that under the rug?

The afraid of giving answers question was
not
rhetorical, though it was loaded :) You answered it anyway, and you answered it well if a little falsely. Still, I could see you understanding it that way and honestly it was the answer I was looking for. Ythan, your dog, on the other hand was afraid to answer it. just because it's loaded doesn't mean he should be able to avoid it.

Your posts are terribly laid out, unfortunately MaB played a piss poor game and others do have well laid out arguments. As for my buddying people, I do try to remain friendly, but even when I'm completely attacking someone I try to keep it on friendly terms, usually. Ask Saint Kerrigan out of game some time. In my second science game I attacked him wholeheartedly, but after he left I pmed him and we talked. I enjoy him as a player and would love to play with him again.


BTW earlier you said something about me attacking the weak link when I went after Ythan. The frank point is, I'm still not sure about you Drip. Sometimes you seem town, sometimes you seem scum. If you're town we just don't mesh logically, but either way you're playing a good enough game that I'm not sure. Ythan on the other hand seems like scum trying to buddy up to the biggest dog in the yard. If you're scum that's why he's following you, if your town he's following you to stay in your pro-town light. Either way he seems scummy to me more and more so. But you are an individual from him, and I have no preconception that your alignments are necessarily the same.
"If I had to label someone as dangerous, it'd be Pulindar. I have a feeling his scum game is very similar to his town game.... What I think is dangerous about Pulindar is that his scumreads feel so liquid. He can post a wall of questions and decide he doesn't like your answer to one of them and justify a vote on you." ~ Prawneater
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:21 am

Post by Ythan »

If you want to question my tactics then a blanket comment like that isn't going to do shit to get you there.

As far as your questions, trying to paint them as dangerous to the people attacking you is ridiculous when it's clear that your role was under attack since long before you got here.

I actually did answer the question in the next bit. Great job there.

Yes.

If you're going to keep saying my reasons are wrong in the way you've been doing it and nothing else then die scum die.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:32 am

Post by Drippereth »

> End bickering
> Begin teamwork subroutine

MOAR PALINDAR VOATS

Within fakeclaiming/hammering range please.
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:33 am

Post by Ythan »

There is a purpose to the bickering. You'll see.
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:48 am

Post by camn »

Ythan wrote:There is a purpose to the bickering. You'll see.
Not really.

I am with Drips re: Vig.
I, too, am a pretty consistent Night 1 target... and I was SHOCKED to see both Drip AND Myself alive this game-morning.
I can't think of any situation why a CSL kill would be better than one of us. . . so I have to assume that they targeted one of us... and failed for some reason.

Though, I will say.. if >I< were scum, I would have killed CSL. I hate bad play that much. But I doubt I would have been able to convince the whole team.
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2

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