My response to ToD's case
I think I mentioned this before, but asking for a claim with only 4 votes isn't actually what Panzer did. What he did was ask for a wagon to a claim. So we've got misrepresentation here.
Let's look at what PJ said before throwing out the word misrepresentation.
PJ wrote:I think he needs some more pressure and a claim about now.
PJ wrote:You have done plenty to warrant pressure and a vote
Second quote immediately corrected with :
PJ wrote:warrant a claim..not a vote.
PJ wrote:Lynch him. If we mislynch, at least his mason partner can be confirmed and help us in lylo. It's a good scumclaim.
Looking at all the first three quotes, are you seriously telling me, ToD, that he was asking for a wagon that would eventually lead to a claim? Also note that there were no votes that were placed between his three first quotes. Whose misrepresenting whom? Or, rather, who hasn't read the thread before accusing someone of misrepresenting? To add to it all, the fact that he called to lynch a claimed PR immediately after did seem like scum trying to find a PR. I stand by my accusations then because I believe that PJ acted scummily and caused his own demise with his play. Note too that others believed with me, and so my accusations on him weren't out of left field.
I'd hope that even by that point, it was clear that Phlight and I weren't scumpartners. Since we didn't have reason to suspect a second scum faction (=SK), trying to cast suspicion on both of us seems unwarranted.
I never claimed that you were scum-partners. I raised suspicions on two things independantly. Obviously, not all of our suspicions our correct. But for you to just disregard my whole argument because "it was clear" that Phlight and you weren't scumpartners is just avoiding the main argument.
However, what really bothers me about this point on your case is that you misquoted me to better your argument. If you read the whole post, you will see that I also cast suspicion on Dramonic. According to your logic, that must mean that I think you are all scum partners. Correct?
Overeager. While I could have cared less if we massclaimed, I figured I could guess the roles left alive on my own (2 mafia, SK, mason, 2 VTs would have been my bet). The eagerness in peanut's post sounds like he's looking for useful PRs to kill.
At this point in the game, with 2 scum, 1 confirmed townie and 2 unknowns, I would rather have more information than less. As part of the uninformed majority I would like as much information as possible to find scum. By revealing the PR (vig or SK), it increases my chances of picking scum from 50% to 66%. I will take those odds in lylo any day.
Yeah. We know. There's no reason to say it unless you're trying to look town.
But then Lobster still threw a vote. I don't think the reminder is unwarranted. On a side note, don't we all want to look town?
That's not a possibility, and your suggestion of it is disingenuous, counterproductive, and scummy.
As I said, I was thinking through the set-up and I've never seen a 2-scum team in a mini. If you feel it's scummy to suggest it, that's up to you. I just want to make sure that we've thought through every scenario.
Bold: Misrepresentation, as pointed out at the top of this page.
In general: Does anyone else see a problem here? He says, "There are quite a few things wrong with how you portrayed me here," which sounds like he's building up to "you should be lynched for this post alone," then he goes and builds a case on lobster, stating that lobster, not me, is his top pick for scum.
I agree that my comment that you bolded wasn't fair, I couldn't make that argument. But I hope you realize that your earlier claim that my comment was disingenuous isn't fair either. The counterproductive and scummy is a more subjective question.
As for your general statement, I don't see a problem. I am not close-minded to assume that if someone raises suspicion on me, they must be scum. Townies make bad arguments all the time, in all games. I know that I've made some weak ones in this game.
Finally, regarding meta reads, I don't hold too much weight to it. I mainly feel it can be manipulated by everyone. Someone can point to their meta in certain games to support a claim or their way of playing or scum can use meta to mislead as well.
ToD, I feel you might be looking to my answer and thinking, "I've played with him as scum, he doesn't want me to look at meta, it could be because he's scum", but there's nothing I can do about that, it's how I've always felt about meta. I'm always wary of why people are pointing or looking at meta.
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Still waiting for a response from Lobster. I will vote for him tomorrow afternoon unless he provides a great post and addresses the main accusations against him.