Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!

[Ythan]

sorry for lack of content but tomorrow is saturday and I have the day off so i shall be catching up and inputting opinion! Night for now -.-

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: 1

[Yosarian2]

I didn't actually think he's a vig. It was a joke. If you want to keep pushing it go ahead but you have your answer.

"It was a joke" as a defense dosn't actually change anything either; pro-town people shouldn't joke about that kind of thing for obvious reasons, scum can as a way to get people to slip and reveal their roles.

[Drippereth]

Yos, Drop it.

[Ythan]

I didn't actually think he's a vig. It was a joke. If you want to keep pushing it go ahead but you have your answer.

"It was a joke" as a defense dosn't actually change anything either; pro-town people shouldn't joke about that kind of thing for obvious reasons, scum can as a way to get people to slip and reveal their roles.

Thanks teach. Anything else?

[SpyreX]

Yeah, I got a bit weirded out by his "Clergy defended scum so therefore Clergy is town" wifom defense post. That tell would be dependent on clergy's alignment, but if Clergy flips scum, SpyreX is a likely buddy.

Its not a function of defending a scum. Its a function of everything around that lynch and the player doing and the methods doing it.

Its not WIFOM - scum defending hard there is tantamount to suicide considering how quick that wagon (which I still think is going to be town) wolved all over it.

If Nik was a PR I'd be looking at it a lot harder. As it sits, no way.

[Anon]

Lol at csl kill.

I did some reread with Nikanon being confirmed scum.

By page 2, Dripereth and Ythan are obv non scum with Nika.

Maemuki is almost there.

Automatically next voters are less likely to be townies and more likely scum bussers. Yosarian, clergyman

Some blatant defense in 69 by dramonic. Knowing dramonic and his play level I think this is more likely a town maneuver

Clergyman's 75 is wtf. So here comes the debate if clergyman is able to defend a scumpartner with NO basis at all and wifomize our asses for future defense. For the NO basis thing I think its very likely.

Nachomann voting camn using competing wagon ftw is scummy as hell knowing the principal wagon was on scum.

Parama in page 5-6-7 is looking more and more like incompetent townie rather than scum with Nikanor.

McZombie is so bussing scum in 186.

Also Spyrex is scum in 199. Ive read tons of games with Spyrex town. Natural leader, trying to get a good grip of the wagons and commenting a lot of what there had to be commented. Never never in the life you see him posting two lines in his first post in a game.

Mmm, Nikanor in 205 is singling out MaB for scum. Need moar info to find out if this is scum going for easy target in desesperate maneuver or bussing maneuver.

Weaboo is also subtly defending Nikanor without saying he isnt scum.

Yosarian getting angry in 361 rings me townie.

Then it all gets theory shit. And Parama hammers Nikanor.

Good morning all.

[Anon]

People that so need to die.

Spyrex
Clergyhoop
Miserable at Best
.... little gap
Nacho
McZombie

Vote: Spyrex.

Pretty sure with my read here. Ive seen Spyrex town and this isnt Spyrex town.

Now I can go behind Clergy and Miserable because they are taking the air I need to breathe with his scummy noses. Nacho and McZombie, Id suggest posting scumlists in following post. TIA.

Also Weaboo dont waste my time and come up with what you have.

[SpyreX]

I'm scum because I came in after a hammer based on mystic voodoo?

WELP

[Drippereth]

I'm scum because I came in after a hammer based on mystic voodoo?

WELP

Thank you for understanding.

[Anon]

I thought you would improve after that iso 0 of yours that stinks so bad.

But you are still lacking.

And its day 2.

Hence why you are scum.

[SpyreX]

And yet, still, not a peep about anything I'm trying to say about dram?

USA USA

[Anon]

That was directed at Spyrex, btw.

[SpyreX]

I'm too tired to go into detail but, again, look at this player base. Look at the sliders.

Then, look real, real hard at dramonic.

And IM lacking?

[Ythan]

Its not WIFOM - scum defending hard there is tantamount to suicide considering how quick that wagon (which I still think is going to be town) wolved all over it.

Do you take this to mean he's probably not scum? If so it is WIFOM.

I'm scum because I came in after a hammer based on mystic voodoo?
WELP

I don't like posts like this. There's a reason you're under suspicion. If it's flimsy rebut it.

[Anon]

Im interested in something, Spyrex.

Also, this wagon on Nik is sooooooo scummy.

Second, the Nik wagon: Worst... Wagon... EVER...

DGB, I see where you're coming from, but I still am kinda sceptical, I've seen Nik scum and it didn't look like that.

Why is dramonic DIE SCUM DIE and clergyman town for doing basically the same thing?

[SpyreX]

The WIFE is still watching the olympics so even though I should be leaving:

Do you take this to mean he's probably not scum? If so it is WIFOM.

Good lord. No.

WIFOM implies equal probabilities. Not "I'll do something so blazingly stupid that I'm sure to be town for it"

Which would be scum

power-defending

Nik in this atmosphere would have been.

Notice the underline, it'll come up in a second.

I don't like posts like this. There's a reason you're under suspicion. If it's flimsy rebut it.

Ohh, really now? Go ahead, condense this case on me. Lay it out all nice and simple.

Then, come back here straight faced and say there's a reason.

Why is dramonic DIE SCUM DIE and clergyman town for doing basically the same thing?

See the underlined above?

Yea. They aren't the same thing. In shape, context, or magnitude.

Dram is actively lurking it up and tsk, tsk'd.

The hoop opted to vehemently attack the wagon.

These two things aren't the same.

[Ythan]

Ohh, really now? Go ahead, condense this case on me. Lay it out all nice and simple.

No my case so~

[SpyreX]

Ahh, but "there is a reason"

So, go ahead and dig it up. Or were you just agreeing for the sake of agreeing?

(Hint: there is no case. You were agreeing for the sake of agreeing)

[Ythan]

I didn't say I agree with his case. I disagree with your response. When someone just says "Oh I'm scummy for x? Yeah ok." it's entirely deflection.

[A clergyman with a hoop]

Wow, so I was genuinely shocked when Nikanor flipped scum, and then after a few seconds got a gross feeling in my gut about what it meant for us tomorrow. I admit I was utterly wrong about that wagon, and am still very surprised it was scum. But we're going to readjust our reads and do the best we can to show we were sincere. Anyway, on to business;

Clergyhoop decided to play the "can't-be-scum-because-defended-other-scum-like-crazy" card, except that CH pushed the envelope to the point of absurdity; and credibility. CH is scum. Notice the sudden change of heart;

first

, Clergyhoop joins the Nikanor bandwagon

. You can almost feel the wheels and cogs in her mind turning when, second, she totally flips and declares Nikanor absolute town and the wagon retarded. "Uh-oh, trouble... what if I do the total opposite of what I'm expected to do?" Well my friend, the problem is, you went totally overboard and gave yourself away.

I'm as certain that Clergyhoop's reaction is that of scum as I was with Nikanor's yesterday.

I knew this was going to be the default argument that people turned to the next day. You know what the weird thing is though, I bet if Nikanor flipped town you would have found a way to attack me. Your opinion on my stances has shifted enough to allow a default argument for whatever Nikanor flips - it's like you're setting me up to be lynched no matter what. Here are some examples;

If Nikanor flipped town, you have this argument;

Would clergyhoop do this as town? It would be unusual for a townie to be so adamant. An informed minority, though... might do it for town cred.

Weird stuff.

I'm starting to think that Clergyhoop has decided that she'd use her informed minority status to show off how great she is at reading townies. Her complete confidence, dating way back when, that Nikanor is town, despite abundant evidence to the contrary, despite further actions from Nikanor deserving of a lynch, points to that.

~~

But of course, she also has a nice argument in the event Nikanor flips scum too (one we're seeing unfurled). The main issue seems to be confidence, which was mostly my (Hoopla) input - I defended a lot harder than SC did, but he definitely did agree with me. There is almost no way my actions could be considered town, regardless of Nikanor's flip. I don't think Drippereth is guilty of deliberately setting up this scenario, but it's weird how often DGB and Ellibereth (at times) give similar statements of absolute confidence, yet will not incur a similar wrath if they end up being wrong (or right).

Consider this; now that Drippereth is confident that I'm scum, will she come under fire tomorrow for being dead wrong? Probably not. If she is right about me being scum, it's probably another free pass, too. I find it bizarre how we've been forced into a double-lose scenario based off an incorrect read.

To me, it was very logical that Nikanor was town. The speed with which his wagon grew made it feel obvious he was town. Especially when the case was based on nothing. I'm going to have to reassess this situation, but I find it unusual I was the only one in the whole town who took that stance, when it should have been a lot more common. I fail to believe anyone on the wagon genuinely knew what it was for, other than 'lol wagon'.

~~

Some other things Drippereth needs to talk me through;

Must-die players:

7 - A Clergyman with a Hoop (Yosarian's buddy, NOT Nikanor's buddy)

Nikanor is absolutely not scum with Clergyhoop. Of this I am 100% certain. If there is one scum faction, that means that Nikanor is SK; if there are two scum factions, he probably belongs to the other. However, I'm going to venture a guess that there is one scum faction and a SK, because a small scum group would suspect the existence of a second one, and hope for town cred from lynching the second scumgroup. I'm not seeing this here. We'll see how the NKs go.

Pretty sure that Clergyhoop is scum.

What changed?

[A clergyman with a hoop]

H-H-Hoops is a much nicer person than I am. I was just going to say that I really enjoy the fact that all the people who are condemning us for a wrong read are going to see they've made JUST AS WRONG A READ tomorrow, but she said it all much nicer than I would have.

I still hold that the only decent point against Nikanor was that he didn't claim, but I guess you can't argue method with that kind of result.

Interestingly, I think that the quotes Hoopla provides above only really further indicate drip's towniness. I think if they were scum bussing and looking to take advantage of our misguided defence of him they wouldn't have made such a fuss over our town read.

Spyrex is looking townie. He can pull out the town reads as scum, but he has a specific reason for thinking we're town that he's articulating well, so I'm feelign good about him.

Some less obvious defences than screaming in thread to derail the lynch:

So I guess we're lynching Nikanor.
Cool. You guys do that, I'm not against it.
I'm also not against lynching CSL.
My vote stays. I don't feel like jumping on an RVS-esque wagon atm.

I'm not saying Nik isn't scum. I'm saying CSL is a better lynch.

unvote vote Parama

Nik isn't doing anything, will keep a stern eye on him when he does.

Vote: Nikanor
For obvious reasons.

sorry guys been at work all day and am really tired...hadn't put my RV in so that's what it was if that seemed out of context...sorry for lack of content but tomorrow is saturday and I have the day off so i shall be catching up and inputting opinion! Night for now -.-

NO it was a stupid f**king wagon. Nik was not buddying to you. The man was trying to see whether he should agree with Drip's scum assessment of you, likely to determine if he would vote for you. There IS merit to Goof's belief that Nik could have been cop-fishing, but the people who voted Nik weren't even going off that.

Drip gets me to thinking about policy lynches... I just now imagine that scum, if not the easy lynchees, are setting up quicklynches on unchallenging players so that they can silence the stronger players at night. Nik almost got hammered 1 RL day into the game. Something scary to think about.

Meh, at the moment, I wouldn't be too unhappy with either a Nik or a CSL lynch. Nik has yet to give me any reason to think he's town. I don't know why everyone is so eager to let CSL survive the day without even trying to explain his incredibly scummy and anti-town behavior, though, and I really don't think CSL should survive the day unless he at least tries to start making sense. The way people seem to be leaping in to try to stop him from getting lynched without giving any good reason for it just makes me want to kill CSL more.

Actually, after his recent posts, I wouldn't mind.

unvote

, vote:

Nikanor

testing something here btw

I'm thinking we lynch clergy now
vote: A clergyman with a hoop

In any case, though, Nik, I really need to hear something useful from you. A defense, a case against someone, what you think about one of the other people, who you think we should lynch today, ect. Right now, I'm willing to see you lynched mostly because you have yet to really do anything all game, Nik.

Theory aside. in THIS GAME... claiming is a pro-town thing to do, i think. Especially post-hammer. If you subscribe to the idea that a well-informed town is a victorious town, that is. Which I do.

That said.. I am willing to follow Yos on a CSL wagon if we cannot reach consensus re: Nika.
I DREAM of Drip-town, camn-town and Yos2-town all playing in concordance..... so if we 3 can come to an agreement, that would help my dream come true

unvote, vote Nikanor
random hammer mode activate

imho, I think scum saw CSL as a chance to get a mislynch. The other wagon was a probably town-fuelled charge that happened to hit scum, so they needed a targetto switch suspicion to and quick. CSL was the best choice, because he looks so filthily scummy.

The two who were pushing CSL the most were Yos2 and Para. They both take very non-commital views on Nikanor, and have that "Nikanor is an ok lynch but I'm not going to vote him because look over here, this guy is MORE scummy" type of attitude. Para hammered, but only after a fake vote hammer, then a quick attempt at a clergyhoop wagon and only when it was patently obvious Nik was the lynch did they change back.

McZombie, Weeaboo etc both haven't really posted enough for me to get a read on their actions. I don't know if camn's last little post was an attempted derail but it was odd that she'd suggest that the town couldn't make up their minds on Nikanor when he was sitting on L-1 with very few vocal defenders.

I think I'm going to

Vote Yos2

, with suspicious glaces at Para in second place and the others mentioned rounding out the pack.

[A clergyman with a hoop]

Actually, Weeaboo rounds out a clear bronze medal ahead of the pack I think.

[SaintKerrigan]

The Sprite (Not Pepsi) Vote Count

Parama -
Nachomamma -
McZombie -
Maemuki -
Ythan - Weaboo
Miserable At Best - camn, Nachomamma8, Ythan, Drippereth ~
Dramonic - SpyreX
camn -
SpyreX - Anon
A Clergyman with a Hoop - Parama, Kmd, Yosarian2
Drippereth - Miserable At Best
Yosarian2 - A Clergyman with a Hoop
Anon -
KMD -
Weaboo -

Not Voting - Maemuki, McZombie, Dramonic

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Hey! I was just gonna do one of these Thanks. ~ Hayl

[Maemuki]

Maemuki is almost there.

??

Kmd's case against me is lame since it is pretty much Clerhoops case against me part 2, and I already defended myself from your accusations, Kmd~ *sings a song about caged birds*

@ MaB - textbook, scum OMGUS, reasonless questions, etc. ISO him so you can see what I'm talking about. (that last attack by Nik really seemed like bussing btw)

Vote: Miserable at Best

[dramonic]

I'm in a few games right now, I'll post more content when I actually have gone through and analyzed the game with more... whatever you wanna call it.

I'm confused between a misguided SpyreX (like in Dark Goma) or a scum spyreX. I'll reread and see what I find.

I still believe the wagon on Nik was craptastic, even if he flipped scum. Just an FYI.