Ok, so now here's my question: would it be more beneficial to the town to lynch Apathy, knowing that he is going to be replaced and that we're going to have to deal with a replacement this late in the day which might not be beneficial to our scumhunting, or do we assume that because he is asking to be replaced that he is most likely town (I believe the argument was used earlier that scum don't want to replace because the game is more interesting to them), and thus we should lynch someone else?Apathy wrote:Mod: I am officially requesting to be replaced
To everyone else: Good luck getting the scummies
...fuzzy's suspicion was stated before?Skill006 wrote:He was restating other people's suspicions at that point. Of course, hejammer wrote:fuzzy: I see a lot of questions, and a lack of analysis.
I got the idea his posts are filled with questions towards others and a lot of text that to me they seem like a useless filler.
My interpretation is scum, that does a act on finding scum. I see rather little if any in his posts that would help me in finding scum.
The case on jmurph started weak, that's not bad as it was rather early in-game. The problem I more have with it, that when he is referring to jmurph, and reasons for voting her, as bad town, and not so much as possible scum.
I also don't like the contradiction, putting a FoS on prana for attacking RF, and later calling it town vs. town fight.
I say scum right here.
jmurph3:
Lot of useless talking in the start.
A OMGUS on one of her voters.
Did not defend herself because she thought defending yourself seems scummy.
Followed Apathy vote on RayFrost.(I think she decently explained later why she did, though.
Lynching Ray, and looking at redbox if Frost flips town, looks really really bad.
Scummy.hadjust replaced in, but that doesn't mean he should not bring anything of his own in.
I stated what I though was noteworthy, that it might been said before. Doesn't change what I think about it.Skill006 wrote:Stuff other people said...jammer wrote:Basically the scummy stuff.
He accuses Prana for pushing hard on Ray together with Ray as his prime suspect.
Wishy washy ness with redbox, skill and fuzzy.
Not willing to respond to points from prana, RF.
Apathy said with someone "if VT" or something along those lines, Ray got mad "You shall not rolefish" or something.Skill006 wrote:If this is talking about apathy, I have no idea what he's reffering to...jammer wrote:The 'OMG ur role-fishing' bit is blown up. The VT could been made at the time as something shorter then towny. Altough, VT does mean vanilla towny I could easily see someone making the mistake.
(towny is not a role, vanilla towny is a role.)
I said it was not enough for a vote. Quite the opposite.Skill006 wrote: Basically saying here "yeah, I assumed, but that still is my reasoning against her, and it is enough for a vote" Or at least I think he's saying that, 'cause if he is...what kind of logicisthat?
jmurph3 wrote:And to be honest, isn't this game really about differences in opinion? You can read something one player says one way, and get town out of it, whereas I can read the same thing a different way, and get scum out of it. One of us will be wrong. In this case, it's you.
More in the sence I was mixing things up earlier. That comment came from it. And yes, you could interpretate it different ways.Skill006 wrote: Wait...why should you have to rethink anything? You don't know what was going through your brain at that time? We could take that to mean you were just typing something for the sake of attacking him.
Which is followed up just a few paragraphs down with:Well, right now I'm not voting anyone because apathy is making us wait(s'already been two days) and I want to see jammer's defense for my case.
Erm... you want to wait to vote to hear his defense, but will still vote for him?vote:jammer Not only am I suspicious because of my case, but he needs to start talking. He has the least amount of stuff in this thread, now, and I could almost call him out for active lurking if it weren't for the fact that I'm pretty convinced he is gone due to RL issues.
Prana, I agree.PranaDevil wrote:In response to jmurph's comment though, personally I still favour the Apathy lynch, if people feel he's scummy anyway, allowing the slot to be replaced and someone to take time to catch up (and therefore not lynch them) because of that, would likely hurt town. I still feel Apathy has played scummy, (though I don't doubt the gf thing, sometimes real life stuff comes up, and while I put myself heavier into mafia when me and my ex broke up a couple of weeks back, I understand not wanting to).
I thought so...maybe it wasn'tjammer wrote:...fuzzy's suspicion was stated before?
There's a lot to read through to find if you did restate or not, but it may not even be worth the trouble as restating a case prob. isn't that scummy (as many of us, including myself, have done it)Repeating a case on someone and not even giving a clear stance kind of seems...I dunno. I don't get the point of that. So you thought it was noteworthy, but in what way? You can't expound upon any of it?jammer wrote:I stated what I though was noteworthy, that it might been said before. Doesn't change what I think about it.
Last point 'not willing to respond back' has been said before I know I've seen it.
I know, not even scum would do that. But it still nicely fills your posts. Although, I have seen other things of yours that are from your own mouth, so I suppose you're ok-ish on that.jammer wrote:I'm not stealing points and pretending I made them myself.
Ok. That doesn't make it excusable, though.jammer wrote:pe's 'summary', could be explained as copying points as well, as you did explain it like that. Almost Fuzzys whole game could be explained this way.
Oh, I missed that. sorryjammer wrote:Apathy said with someone "if VT" or something along those lines, Ray got mad "You shall not rolefish" or something.
Really? Here's what you said:jammer wrote:I said it was not enough for a vote. Quite the opposite.
Ok, the bolded part is awfully confusing and could easily be misinterpreted (I'm not saying you put that there intentionally to fool someone, it just seems obscure). The reasoning you put forth depends on what she does in the future, so it really shouldn't have been used against her.jammer wrote:Idd, I'm assuming, what you say is a possible explanation.
I didn't mean to state what I said as a fact merely trying to get out why I thought it was suspicious.
Note I'm not 100% sure my reasoning is the right one. If it was, it is with the 'lieing'(it would mean she lied heavily about what she meant) from her.Enough to place a vote on her.
The conclusions I get are majorly set on the assumption jmurph is lining up lynches.
...What are you talking about? How could you "mix things up"? You quoted a quote from Ray and said "deflecting much?", Ray had said "Skill needs to take a stance". How can there be confusion there?jammer wrote:More in the sence I was mixing things up earlier. That comment came from it. And yes, you could interpretate it different ways.
Did you not find anything good in my defense, anything that you found some truth in? Anyhow, I'm trying to attack someone but its not someone you agree with me on. Sorry. And my other scum read would lead us in circles and if I did anything about it, would just "stall" the town.prana wrote:As for Skill, I'm still unsure. Wanting to defend people who are being targetted wrongly? That's fine by me, but defending everyone is... a strange tactic, if you don't make some form of attack, you're also not pressuring potential scum, just asking people to explain further why they think things (potentially drawing things out and making it harder to read... not that I've helped with that previously).
Yah. I voted him because he needed to post something, and he was slipping by without giving much. My case on him had little to do with my vote, its more his inactivity and his getting away with it. I'm not gonna take off my vote just yet.prana wrote:Erm... you want to wait to vote to hear his defense, but will still vote for him?
prana wrote:but I'm starting to get more of a feeling Skill could well be scum, even more so when you consider the rather weak case on jammer (to me at least) followed up with a vote on him a mere 2 days before deadline, when it's highly unlikely to end in a jammer lynch, as though voting just for the sake of it so it can't be said she hasn't voted.
Maybe there's something you could do about it yourself? Were you scumhunting in other areas? I know its dreadfully boring waiting for someone to post, but he isn't the only guy around.Phaen wrote:Apathy promises a post & then gives up and asks for a replacement?
My posts have been getting shorter because I'm losing interest. I feel like there really isn't much real development going on these past few RL days. I may be wrong though because I haven't been reading as closely as I used to. I've been waiting for Apathy to come up with a decent defense and he hasn't.
jammer wrote:@jmurph, replacing is not more likely to be town.
More likely playing as town or scum depends on how someone likes the role, not the same for everyone.
He likely got a actual RL issue for replacing out.
There is a bit of discussion involving them (as well as other good advice for new players) in this thread in the Mafia Discussion Forum.Zorblag wrote:Here are some rules of thumb that I like a lot for the current newbie setup. There are no absolute rules in mafia and others might disagree about some of them (and I'm happy to discuss them so long as we don't detract from the game itself by doing it) but I'm a fairly traditional/conservative player and find these to be useful.
1. Townies without power roles should not lie about their role except in very specific situations (which are unlikely to come up in newbie games.) Lying to save yourself from a lynch as a vanilla townie is much more likely to hurt the town than to help in the long run.
2. Townies without power roles should generally not claim to be vanilla townies. This makes it easier for the scum to figure out who the power roles are if there are any. Assuming that townies are following rule 1 they should avoid making claims other than simply being a pro-town role unless there is some strategy that the Town is using (e.g. massclaim at LyLo) or they are about to be lynched anyhow and keeping their non-power role status no longer makes it easier for the scum to find power roles.
3. If you suspect someone else of having a power role you shouldn't out them. Support them if you see a way to do it that doesn't out them and watch carefully to see if there are reasons to reassess your belief. Leave the claim of the power role to them unless you think that they will be lynched while they are away and wouldn't be able to make the claim them self.
4. If you do have a power role you should keep it hidden for now. Do not let yourself get lynched without revealing it but there is no reason to advertise it at the start in the setups that we could be in. If the scum know who have the power roles now they have the power to lynch or role block powers during the night and negate their usefulness.
5. If you're town, don't self hammer. This kills a pro town role and hurts the town's chances in the long run. It's much better to try to defend yourself or at the very least force the other players to place the last vote. There are exceptions when a deadline is involved but in general don't think that you're doing the town any favors by self hammering.
If any of those are unclear please do ask about them.
May as well give him a chance. He'll be able to help us, I'm sure.Phaen wrote:Sigh, I can't really imagine getting much of a read on Troll in the ~30 hrs we have left =/
They weren't rhetorical.I wrote:Maybe there's something you could do about it yourself? Were you scumhunting in other areas? I know its dreadfully boring waiting for someone to post, but he isn't the only guy around.
1. I felt it was a scummy wagon, which would decrease the likelihood of jmurph scumZorblag wrote:Just checking in with a minor progress update.
@RayFrost, why the town read for jmurph3 in Post 126? I see observations on her part that she's being attacked which aren't much of a tell one way or the other. Perhaps you explain that later but in case you didn't what was your motivation there?